EQ that doesn't alter RMS level?

[Noobynoobnoob]

Hi guy's,

Long time lurker first post.

I'm searching, for quite some time now, for an EQ that doesn't alter the signals RMS level.

The reason is that, when I turn up/down frequencies, iow f*$# around with the eq, it always sounds better at first. But when listening back at equal RMS levels, this is not always the case.

Maybe I'm not searching correctly, maybe there's a smarter way to do it, I don't know.

Anyway, it seems like a useful tool to have.


So, is there an EQ that doesn't alter the RMS level of a signal?

Best Noobynoobnoob.

[Niowiad]

Any boost or cut of frequencies from any equalizer will inevitably alter the average level (RMS).
Some EQs although provide auto gain compensation as an additional feature, which in real time will approximately rebalance the overall loudness to the initial level.

In my mind right now... SlickEQ, ProQ-2, and also all Melda EQs I think provide AGC.

[imrae]

SlickEQ and Luftikus are good, free and include auto-gain. The paid edition of Nova has an automatic trim tool and "equal loudness bypass".

[plexuss]

DMG EQuilibrium has a very nice autogain feature that does a good reliable job of keeping the level matched. Thier other EQs might have it as well.

[MogwaiBoy]

I agree, without volume matching your EQ decisions can be skewed - unless your instincts are spot-on. SlickEQ's auto-gain is quite awesome.

[DocSnyder]

So if I cut the lows from a bass sound, it soundwise still fits into the mix but the eq will boost its volume because the rms level is much now lower than before? That doesn't make much sense to me. Or am I understanding it wrong?

[mitchiemasha]

So if I cut the lows from a bass sound, it soundwise still fits into the mix but the eq will boost its volume because the rms level is much now lower than before? That doesn't make much sense to me. Or am I understanding it wrong?

Exactly... mix the sound slightly too low, instead of turning it up, cut the frequencies it doesn't need.

[crimsonmerry]

Or you can use any EQ, or a chain of plugins with a loudness match plugin such as MeterPlugs Perception or TBProAudio AB LM.

[Noobynoobnoob]

Thanks for all the answers.

Been downloading and testing.

[stardustmedia]

Welcome to the universe of mixing.

I've tried the different AGC features, and not one of them convinced me, so I could trust them fully. I only trust my ears. I love to compare two settings blindly. I position the cursor on the "Compare" button, close my eyes and start clicking very fast a lot of times, until I don't know anymore which setting is loaded. Then I start comparing and the one I like better stays, no matter what, even if some knowledge says a boost/cut is good to do.

So, yes, you HAVE TO do blind test yourself the new settings. That's where compare functions are great.

How often I screwed myself, by tweaking an EQ from a different channel, and I was still hearing a difference... until I started the comparison

[Niowiad]

So if I cut the lows from a bass sound, it soundwise still fits into the mix but the eq will boost its volume because the rms level is much now lower than before? That doesn't make much sense to me. Or am I understanding it wrong?

I think it may be helpful or not depending on the context and workflow preferences.

On the very preliminary stages of evaluation, targeting unwanted resonances and doing basic tone shaping (pretty much in solo mode or really small submixes) I might find ACG very useful to avoid getting fooled by loudness. Small EQ variations may have a big impact on loudness in the context of a single instrument and AGC can speed up the evaluation process without manually gain matching everytime.

Instead, in the context of actual mixing with a multitude of tracks playing, small changes on single instrument have a way smaller impact on the overall mix loudness, and if you're (for instance) lowering the mids on the bass, you don't necessarily want all other frequencies of the bass to be boosted by autogain. At that point, as you suspected, it might even become counterproductive unless you're used to mix with AGC and take it into account on every EQ change.

[imrae]

I find autogain useful when boosting and less useful when cutting, for the reasons given above. Luckily most of the examples given have a way to disable autogain, so you can match it to the job