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H3000 Factory Questions

jens
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18453 posts since 12 Jul, 2003, from West Caprazumia

Postby jens; Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:09 am Re: H3000 Factory Questions

wagtunes wrote:. I can do this in a modular system like Softube (modulate one delay with another) but outside of that, not possible to the best of my knowledge.


No, you can't - not in Softube and not anywhere else - a delay delays a signal, that's what it does - a delay does not modulate - a modulator does. You can use a modulator to modulate parameters. Delay(-time), feedback and so forth are not modulators. Examples for Modulators are LFO, envelope, envelope-follower.
" It is a measurable fact. Not my opinion. And not even subtle. If you can't hear difference in tail between Valhalla and VSR reverb tail then again change your job dude." kmonkey
Harry_HH
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1987 posts since 4 Aug, 2006, from Helsinki

Postby Harry_HH; Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:23 am Re: H3000 Factory Questions

Now, if you happen to have extra money, a real new flagship from Eventide was presented in AES 2017 in New York.

https://www.eventideaudio.com/blog/gest ... 000-part-1

H9000 includes full of new feature, computer/DAW integration etc.
Multichannel processing makes the H9000 a suitable platform for surround sound and for processing several tracks of audio simultaneously. On top of that, the H9000 introduces the concept of FX CHAINS, allowing users to connect any set of four effects with flexible routing. FX CHAINS can be created to act as a Voice Channel, a guitar ‘pedal board’, or a modular synth with effects, etc.

Some kind of software version would be great.

:love:
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wagtunes
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9143 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:26 am Re: H3000 Factory Questions

Ichad.c wrote:
jens wrote:H3000 Factory actually doesn't really have much of a sound of ist own - the Hardware has, but that's mainly dues to i's AD/DA sections, which were developed/designed by Dave Derr (of ELI (Distressor) fame) - these have not been modelled for the plugin (which is age-old and has a tiny GUI)

Hofa System (which has been mentioned before in this thread) is probably the most powerful modular FX environment. It can do it all:

Multiband
Feedback
Parallel
Mid/Side

and basically any combination of these. It is unbelievably powerful. Frankly put: it pisses all over MXXX - and costs nothing.


The great thing about the H3000 is the presets, it is years of quality engineers mucking about with it that makes it great, it's more a "sum of its parts" thing. That being said, if you are willing to get your hands dirty, Hofa System 2 for 80 Euros will probably smoke the H3000.

I've been keeping my eye on Hofa System for a while now, haven't taken the plunge yet 'cause I need some basic math modules(hobbyist programmer - I need math man) and more delays options(reverse, allpass(delay), multi-tap(for efficiency), lattice allpass etc. etc.), and more modulation options(Envelope - ADSR minimum, Pitch Track, Envelope Track etc). If that was added, it could compete with the H8000FW, never-mind the lowly H3000.


Are you talking about modules for the Hofa System? If so, where do you get these?
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plexuss
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1346 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Postby plexuss; Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:29 pm Re: H3000 Factory Questions

I thought, from your initial posts, that you wanted "that sound" - vintage Eventide digital. But now we are talking about modular multi-effects, which is more about functionality. Yes there are many options for modular effects tools out there. However if you are truely after "that sound" you are only going to get that from H3000. That is sort of the point of H3000 - to give the ITB user the sound of the hardware unit. So I am bit confused now about what your looking for. :phones:
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Ichad.c
KVRian
 
1000 posts since 8 Feb, 2012, from South - Africa

Postby Ichad.c; Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:39 pm Re: H3000 Factory Questions

wagtunes wrote:
Ichad.c wrote:
jens wrote:H3000 Factory actually doesn't really have much of a sound of ist own - the Hardware has, but that's mainly dues to i's AD/DA sections, which were developed/designed by Dave Derr (of ELI (Distressor) fame) - these have not been modelled for the plugin (which is age-old and has a tiny GUI)

Hofa System (which has been mentioned before in this thread) is probably the most powerful modular FX environment. It can do it all:

Multiband
Feedback
Parallel
Mid/Side

and basically any combination of these. It is unbelievably powerful. Frankly put: it pisses all over MXXX - and costs nothing.


The great thing about the H3000 is the presets, it is years of quality engineers mucking about with it that makes it great, it's more a "sum of its parts" thing. That being said, if you are willing to get your hands dirty, Hofa System 2 for 80 Euros will probably smoke the H3000.

I've been keeping my eye on Hofa System for a while now, haven't taken the plunge yet 'cause I need some basic math modules(hobbyist programmer - I need math man) and more delays options(reverse, allpass(delay), multi-tap(for efficiency), lattice allpass etc. etc.), and more modulation options(Envelope - ADSR minimum, Pitch Track, Envelope Track etc). If that was added, it could compete with the H8000FW, never-mind the lowly H3000.


Are you talking about modules for the Hofa System? If so, where do you get these?


Nah, they don't exist, was just thinking out loud of what could be. Apart from the reverse delay and pitch tracking, all those modules would be easy for a programmer to add and it make it exponentially more flexible.

That being said, the Hofa System as it is now, looks pretty darn flexibly and can probably do more than the H3000 factory (excluding some extra modulation capabilities that the H3000 has), you're just got to dig into it. Rather think of it as a synth, and program it as such.
jens
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18453 posts since 12 Jul, 2003, from West Caprazumia

Postby jens; Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:56 pm Re: H3000 Factory Questions

plexuss wrote: However if you are truely after "that sound" you are only going to get that from H3000. That is sort of the point of H3000 - to give the ITB user the sound of the hardware unit. So I am bit confused now about what your looking for. :phones:


As I mentioned before, the H3000 Factory does not Sound like the hardware unit because it does not emulate the hardware. And that's a fact. ;-)
" It is a measurable fact. Not my opinion. And not even subtle. If you can't hear difference in tail between Valhalla and VSR reverb tail then again change your job dude." kmonkey
jens
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18453 posts since 12 Jul, 2003, from West Caprazumia

Postby jens; Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:07 pm Re: H3000 Factory Questions

Ichad.c wrote:That being said, the Hofa System as it is now, looks pretty darn flexibly and can probably do more than the H3000 factory (excluding some extra modulation capabilities that the H3000 has).


Yes, you're spot on in regards to the automation - that's the one area where the H3000 Factory offers a lot more functionality (even though in the Hofa System - unlike the H3000 - you theoretically can add an unlimited number of LFOs - but that's it)
" It is a measurable fact. Not my opinion. And not even subtle. If you can't hear difference in tail between Valhalla and VSR reverb tail then again change your job dude." kmonkey
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wagtunes
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9143 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:49 pm Re: H3000 Factory Questions

plexuss wrote:I thought, from your initial posts, that you wanted "that sound" - vintage Eventide digital. But now we are talking about modular multi-effects, which is more about functionality. Yes there are many options for modular effects tools out there. However if you are truely after "that sound" you are only going to get that from H3000. That is sort of the point of H3000 - to give the ITB user the sound of the hardware unit. So I am bit confused now about what your looking for. :phones:


Both. And it appears, without spending a considerable amount of money, I'm not getting either.

The H3000, as it's been pointed out, is not the complete hardware unit. So I'm not "really" getting an H3000. And the modular system, the one I'm looking for, appears to come at a great cost.

While the System 2 looks "promising" I don't know if it's going to give me everything I'm looking for.
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pekbro
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1192 posts since 29 Sep, 2010, from Maui

Postby pekbro; Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:13 pm Re: H3000 Factory Questions

What about MUX, you already have that. You can build whatever kind of
delay you want assuming you know how, you have the allpass filter and
feedback delay there already.

Just sayin...
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wagtunes
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9143 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:27 pm Re: H3000 Factory Questions

pekbro wrote:What about MUX, you already have that. You can build whatever kind of
delay you want assuming you know how, you have the allpass filter and
feedback delay there already.

Just sayin...


1. I don't know how. I've only gotten as far into Mux to build relatively simple synths. I've yet to even try to tackle making my own FX module.

2. Even if I did, incorporating other synths into Mux is a PITA. I don't like the work flow at all, which is why I essentially use Mux as a stand alone VST.

I'm just looking for something programmable that I can use as an FX insert in Cubase. If that's even possible with Mux, I have no idea how to do it. Took me forever to figure out how to use Reaktor as an FX insert in Cubase with all the settings you have to adjust to make it happen, which is why I don't even bother doing it anymore as it's not worth the hassle.
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pekbro
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1192 posts since 29 Sep, 2010, from Maui

Postby pekbro; Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:56 pm Re: H3000 Factory Questions

Ahh, well just so you know, you can do all that, and much more with Mux.
The allpass filter would definitely require a fair amount of technical
knowledge to use. To me, its a lot more intuitive than the H3000 ;). I use
all of them actually.
VariKusBrainZ
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6708 posts since 16 Dec, 2002

Postby VariKusBrainZ; Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:50 pm Re: H3000 Factory Questions

pekbro wrote:Ahh, well just so you know, you can do all that, and much more with Mux.


+1

Sounds like the OP is after something with lots of presets though and doesn't quite understand the capabilities of features of stuff he already has.

Needs to bone up the basics of Daw integration and routing and then learn to use what he has.

+1 for NI Guitar Rig as a software H3000 replacement, get Traktors 12 too and it's amazing for glitch when combined with the built in modulators
The future is yesterday
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wagtunes
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9143 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:44 am Re: H3000 Factory Questions

VariKusBrainZ wrote:
pekbro wrote:Ahh, well just so you know, you can do all that, and much more with Mux.


+1

Sounds like the OP is after something with lots of presets though and doesn't quite understand the capabilities of features of stuff he already has.

Needs to bone up the basics of Daw integration and routing and then learn to use what he has.

+1 for NI Guitar Rig as a software H3000 replacement, get Traktors 12 too and it's amazing for glitch when combined with the built in modulators


The OP understands pretty well that he can't chain two delays in Cubase and have one modulate the other.

As for Mux, no, I don't want to go open up a book and learn how to create FX inside a synth thank you. I want something that's similar to a modular synth where I can take multiple FX, chain them together and then through something like either patch cables or a mod matrix, modulate one FX with another.

If that functionality doesn't exist or requires me to become a dsp programmer, I'll forget this whole idea and we can just drop this whole thread and lock it up.
lnikj
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1565 posts since 23 May, 2005, from the North Cornwall coast

Postby lnikj; Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:15 am Re: H3000 Factory Questions

As I said above you can only really achieve that in a modular environment (eg Modular, Reaktor, VCVrack).

I don't know what Cubase offers but in Live (with Max4live) you get LFOs, and Envelope Followers, and of course sidechains (which Cubase will have). There are a plethora of Max4Live devices which may or may not do what you want. You can use Oscillot to build a fully modular effects chain.

I don't have Bitwig but it has modulators coming of its ears: https://www.bitwig.com/en/bitwig-studio ... ators.html

The fact that there is no plugin that does exactly what you want probably reflects that there is no market for one. Some of your needs are catered for by routing inside your DAW (using side chaining and envelope followers), the rest by using a full modular.
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sin night
KVRian
 
1014 posts since 1 Aug, 2006, from Italy

Postby sin night; Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:30 am Re: H3000 Factory Questions

I would suggest Reaktor (it can work as an fx and there's a huge user library), but there's a learning curve (I still have to spend some time on it...). I don't know if sticking to Reaktor Blocks could be a good balance between learning curve and results.

Guitar Righ with Traktor's 12 is probably more hands on and closer to the workflow you describe, but it's also more limited than Reaktor (which can do virtually anything).


I love Eventide's products, I have a few plugins and the H9... If I were you, I'd use something like Reaktor or Guitar Rig for all the crazy fx chains and then look at specific plugins for specific algorithms (you don't need all of them, even if they are cool) to get that "Eventide Sound".
For me it's worth having an algorithm like the H910 (or the H949, which I don't have in my plugin collection); then there are things like Blackhole or UltraTap, which you may or may not dig. As already suggested, you may have a look at SoundToys catalogue (the founders are former Eventide Engineers), for things like MicroShift (which is their take on Eventide micropitchshift) or Crystallizer...
I read more than once on the net that some Eventide boxes were pretty much sitting on the same algo in some studios, so you may not need all the modular power for some effects, but just the right sounding ones, so some specific plugins can make sense.


Given that we are getting close to the sales season, I would suggest you to search for the most known presets/algo of Eventide, listen to demos and see if they fit in your music and then make a list of your priorities.


Just my 2 cents, of course.
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