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JerGoertz
KVRAF
 
1743 posts since 19 Feb, 2004

Postby JerGoertz; Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:16 pm Re: SKnote release Disto-S - A Distressor, fast and effective.

quintosardo wrote:
JerGoertz wrote:Hey, just wanted to make a quick bug report: the 20:1 ratio doesn't seem to work. The inf:1 ratio (limiter) may be buggy too.


@JerGoertz? Any basic info? You are the only one reporting this!


Yes, my apologies, I was vague. I am on Win 7 64-bit, using 32-bit VST host. And I misspoke: It appears the 10:1 ratio setting is broken. To witness this, load e.g. a percussion loop and stick Disto-S on it with default settings, then crank Gain up to 10. Now cycle through the different ratios. The behavior for 10:1 is clearly "off".

Also, maybe I don't understand how Disto is supposed to work, but why is it showing gain reduction even at 1:1 ratio?
Last edited by JerGoertz on Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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quintosardo
KVRAF
 
2265 posts since 15 Jul, 2004, from Italy

Postby quintosardo; Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:09 pm Re: SKnote release Disto-S - A Distressor, fast and effective.

djanthonyw wrote:I know the examples aren’t typical, but the point of them was to use more extreme settings for testing purposes. I’m using Disto for saturation as I find it to be one of the best options.


Ok, I wanted you to know the controls don't match at all (are not supposed to), you could be fooled by that because the new algorithm (-S) needs its manual, uploaded tomorrow.
Also I wasn't saying the settings aren't typical but the image is not meaningful (so probably that direct comparison) as I see matched controls. Don't hesitate to ask if you need info in the meantime.
Last edited by quintosardo on Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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djscorb
KVRian
 
672 posts since 3 May, 2007, from UK

Postby djscorb; Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:17 pm Re: SKnote release Disto-S - A Distressor, fast and effective.

Why don't you just aknowkedge that you made a mistake , antialias your font and put out a fixed gui with the next update?

V strange attitude from a dev.

The Devil is always in the details, and to have missed such an obvious detail casts doubt as to how well you look after more important details under the hood that affect stability and sound.

Odd that you are asking users to do your audio demos for you too.

Why would someone who can afford a real distressor concern themselves with this? The hardware owners are the least likely to be interested in a cheap software replica and are also likely to be subconsiously biased towards the HW having invested serious cash anyway, making the test less than neutral.

I am also baffled as to why you say the control ranges and everything are completely different on your first Disto plugin. So was that just a wild stab in the dark with a distressor inspired GUI and you only decided to do it properly the second time?

Why should the control ranges be so different on something that's aiming to be a 1 to 1 copy of hardware?

Baffling.

I'm out!
I once thought I had mono for an entire year. It turned out I was just really bored...
quintosardo
KVRAF
 
2265 posts since 15 Jul, 2004, from Italy

Postby quintosardo; Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:21 pm Re: SKnote release Disto-S - A Distressor, fast and effective.

JerGoertz wrote:
quintosardo wrote:
JerGoertz wrote:Hey, just wanted to make a quick bug report: the 20:1 ratio doesn't seem to work. The inf:1 ratio (limiter) may be buggy too.


@JerGoertz? Any basic info? You are the only one reporting this!


Yes, my apologies, I was vague. I am on Win 7 64-bit, using 32-bit host. And I misspoke: It appears the 10:1 ratio setting is broken. To witness this, load e.g. a percussion loop and stick Disto-S on it with default settings, then crank Gain up to 10. Now cycle through the different ratios. The behavior for 10:1 is clearly "off".

Also, maybe I don't understand how Disto is supposed to work, but why is it showing gain reduction even at 1:1 ratio?


Ok, so it is only about the 10:1 ratio (with a note about the 1:1 ratio), right?

10:1 is different, with extremely long time constants. If you cycle through ratio values you see something really different when passing through 10:1. So, all normal. You can stick with 10:1 and test the settings on that, starting from zero release time and going up. This mode was dedicated to "Opto" on a Distressor.

1:1 was dedicated to "British mode" (UK on Disto) so it is not 1:1 at all.

So, looks like everything is normal.

You can also look at the original hw manual online :tu:
Last edited by quintosardo on Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Electronics and music: http://www.sknoteaudio.com
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quintosardo
KVRAF
 
2265 posts since 15 Jul, 2004, from Italy

Postby quintosardo; Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:31 pm Re: SKnote release Disto-S - A Distressor, fast and effective.

djscorb wrote:Why don't you just aknowkedge that you made a mistake , antialias your font and put out a fixed gui with the next update?

V strange attitude from a dev.

The Devil is always in the details, and to have missed such an obvious detail casts doubt as to how well you look after more important details under the hood that affect stability and sound.

Odd that you are asking users to do your audio demos for you too.

Why would someone who can afford a real distressor concern themselves with this? The hardware owners are the least likely to be interested in a cheap software replica and are also likely to be subconsiously biased towards the HW having invested serious cash anyway, making the test less than neutral.

I am also baffled as to why you say the control ranges and everything are completely different on your first Disto plugin. So was that just a wild stab in the dark with a distressor inspired GUI and you only decided to do it properly the second time?

Why should the control ranges be so different on something that's aiming to be a 1 to 1 copy of hardware?

Baffling.

I'm out!


GUI: you can express your opinion in infinite ways.

Stability: all formats are rock solid. The distribution was wrong. Lots of testers, also with live use on Venue consoles, just imagine.

Audio demo: am I asking them to do that? Really. I'll never finish improving my English. I mean two things: "send some audio if you want to see how we would process it and get the preset" and "if you are commenting about some audio result you get, nobody will be able to understand if you don't post it". _we_ take care of demos, not simply audio but whole tutorials, as you can see in our website. We'll be adding lots for this one, too.

Why need this if you have a real one: really? Do you know how many licenses are owned by hw owners? Example: using 100 instances?

Control ranges: Disto was born as a huge concept, including Distressors and Fatso, with added modes like "Out of Order" that, intuitively, is something added. Was aimed to extend on the idea of a Distressor while keeping the basic attitude. Looks like many people wanted "a Distressor" so the concept was simplified back to the original, improved, pumped with DSP. For free. Now they are matched. To a Distressor, NOT to previous Disto. But Disto v.2 stays, because, as you see also in this thread, was not a bad idea :party:

Why should you be out if you are in this thread and will be back for sure. Looks like a fight against something more than talking about gear and audio.
Last edited by quintosardo on Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Electronics and music: http://www.sknoteaudio.com
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quintosardo
KVRAF
 
2265 posts since 15 Jul, 2004, from Italy

Postby quintosardo; Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:46 pm Re: SKnote release Disto-S - A Distressor, fast and effective.

acYm wrote:...
fortunately, it seems people have a wide variety of other complaints, so that's all good then. :D


Eh? Exactly which post was a complaint from an user here and isn't solved? :roll:
Last edited by quintosardo on Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Electronics and music: http://www.sknoteaudio.com
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quintosardo
KVRAF
 
2265 posts since 15 Jul, 2004, from Italy

Postby quintosardo; Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:51 pm Re: SKnote release Disto-S - A Distressor, fast and effective.

Everglide wrote:Thank you for the free update Q, much appreciated.

Sounds in your face!


Sorry Everglide to quote you for nothing, I was looking for an user in the thread to get back to reality :phones:
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Compyfox
KVRAF
 
14133 posts since 18 Oct, 2003, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Compyfox; Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:17 am Re: SKnote release Disto-S - A Distressor, fast and effective.

quintosardo wrote:Audio demo: am I asking them to do that? Really. I'll never finish improving my English. I mean two things: "send some audio if you want to see how we would process it and get the preset" and "if you are commenting about some audio result you get, nobody will be able to understand if you don't post it". _we_ take care of demos, not simply audio but whole tutorials, as you can see in our website. We'll be adding lots for this one, too.



Actually, no. You said the following (in order):

quintosardo wrote:Anybody with a hw Distressor here?

Really enough of talking of nothing, lets hear some sounds! Then we can run all the tests we want :tu:

quintosardo wrote:No, I didn't hear of anybody answering to my question "are we comparing it to a hw unit", everything else is just wasting time.

Do you want an answer (if talking to me, of course)? I need to understand the question.

If we want to compare, let's do it! That's where the fun is. But we need to hear it. A forum about audio without a single bit of audio?

Come on, let's talk of something real, let's hear it! :party::lol:

...

quintosardo wrote:...

If you are not interested in a comparison to hw, which I can understand 100%, you should aim to match the sound, NOT looking at the knobs as they are not related.

Thanks for the test, finally some audio in a thread about audio :D

Let's work on it if you want to dig more.

...


There is ZERO implication that users shall send you(!) audio material for you(!) to edit and show the results.

Unless you consider this sidenote as "request" (which still doesn't make it clear either):

quintosardo wrote:P.S. I'll play with the dry file myself and upload some examples and relative presets here if you allow me to :phones:



In fact, I highly criticise the lack of showing the hardware unit for comparison in your video. It is also not clear how the routing was done (especially for those not using ProTools).




quintosardo wrote:Control ranges: Disto was born as a huge concept, including Distressors and Fatso, with added modes like "Out of Order" that, intuitively, is something added. Was aimed to extend on the idea of a Distressor while keeping the basic attitude. Looks like many people wanted "a Distressor" so the concept was simplified back to the original, improved, pumped with DSP. For free. Now they are matched. To a Distressor, NOT to previous Disto. But Disto v.2 stays, because, as you see also in this thread, was not a bad idea :party:


So you admit that you're trying to ride the bandwagon in this case?

DISTO was a mashup concept, it's still somewhat broken (according to various posts on GS), so you are once more cutting ties with a concept that people enjoyed and wanted to use, to eventually move on to a "new/improved/simplified version". (I count the days until DISTO-R will be dropped)

Great way to support backwards compatibility to already existing users.




quintosardo wrote:Why should you be out if you are in this thread and will be back for sure. Looks like a fight against something more than talking about gear and audio.


So valid critisicm is now equal to "fighting" - and sarcastic comments are considered "racist" (even though that post is deleted now, I know exactly who was meant!).

This is why a lot of us were saying years ago already, to maybe involve a third party individual to do the public relations (forum presence) for you - with a way better form of communication. While you solely focus on the development side of things.

You didn't learn on that behalf in the last couple of years it seems.




Also - I just saw this:

quintosardo wrote:Whatever you like! Compression is always active (even at "1:1", which became the Britich mode basis). Saturation is after that. So you can just look at the gain reduction meter. I suggest to go quite hot, then use the input Gain knob (which ranges +/-20dB).


Can't agree on that. A 1:1 ratio shall not compress at all, and I don't think that this was the "British Mode" basis as well. The British Mode (to my understanding) was a desire to influence the attack/release values - not the 1:1 ratio and knee setting.

The Distressor was a digital controlled alternative to the 1176 (FET), LA2A (OPTO) and VCA165 (analog VCA) in the first place, while being way more affordable as well.



Furthermore - this is really bothering me:

quintosardo wrote:I hope you get my contribution as useful, Disto-S is so new and not yet documented so, while we are loading the instructions online (debugging killed short term plans) I try to help.


This is not the first time you did this. While I was still a "valued customer" of SKNote, there was a huge lack of documentation already. Granted, you can search for the EL-8 Distressor manual on the web and dig through it, but that's not what the users should do.


In fact, your plugin creation is even different to the hardware you you have the audacity to claim it to be (and I quote from your homepage): "Simply the best emulation of a classic."

It is not clear if you "fused" the Detector settings with the Audio Out settings - there is only one HP filter. It's not clear what "BAND" means (unless that's the bell filter in the detection feed). You also use an Auto Gain mechanism that's not documented, we don't know if the "Link" mode is actually altering chaining the mono feed like the hardware (bonus feature!). But apparently you implemented the "UK Mode" (aka: British Mode).

So you basically stabbed at the EL-8X, while not porting it 1:1

Yet you have the time to completely drop the concept of DISTO (v2), and release a new Distressor (main focus on DISTO-S), while DISTO v2 turns into DISTO-R if I got that right and will be released "at a later later state" as part of the bundle (apparently, available for some users already - yet with an unclear statement whether or not this is the end of the line for this plugin). Which heavily reminds me of what you did with STRIPbus 3 and StripBUS 3.


This to me rings all types of alarm bells.
How?

Slate Digital released FG-STRESS in late September. To keep the hype train going and people interested, you needed(!) to react and get your creation overhauled/fixed and out as fast as possible. If you'd be a Youtuber, that would mean "more clicks = more revenue", because you can enjoy the hype-wave and benefit from that just as much.

Or in short: you (to me!) made another rushed job, that is patched in the weeks to come. And those that want to continue using might still be in for a rude awakening (backwards compatibility).

Again, not the first time you did this.




Add to that, that there is no demo system available still, and that no criticism is allowed towards you or your refund policy (299USD is a lot of wood for a software plugin without a demo!)... connect the dots yourself.

If I'd still be a "valued customer" (I'm banned from your company after all, sitting on outdated licenses that I can't sell or forward either)... you'd have a lot(!) of convincing to do to get me hooked on DISTO-S.





Just to give some perspective from the other side of the fence. :tu:
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Omnivox
KVRist
 
135 posts since 10 Jul, 2003, from Zagreb, Croatia

Postby Omnivox; Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:28 am Re: SKnote release Disto-S - A Distressor, fast and effective.

quintosardo wrote:
VariKusBrainZ wrote:I know we can rename the plugin ourselves but my download had the same name.

..................

Once we are out of this (very hard, for us) transition you'll just have Disto-S and Disto-R.

Please help us to build it the best way. Lots of people asked for this new style, lots of people prefer the previous rack system with an extended concept. So we kept them both. Just imagine the amount of work this involves. Including making Disto-S presets compatible to Disto-R.


I can say that I prefer this GUI - didn't get much use from Fatso units so far, and this compressor is simply wonderful, especially for the price - you get two units for one pretty low price, and it's great!
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Robert Randolph
KVRAF
 
1834 posts since 25 May, 2003, from Saint Petersburg, Florida

Postby Robert Randolph; Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:42 am Re: SKnote release Disto-S - A Distressor, fast and effective.

Compyfox wrote:
quintosardo wrote:Whatever you like! Compression is always active (even at "1:1", which became the Britich mode basis). Saturation is after that. So you can just look at the gain reduction meter. I suggest to go quite hot, then use the input Gain knob (which ranges +/-20dB).


Can't agree on that. A 1:1 ratio shall not compress at all, and I don't think that this was the "British Mode" basis as well. The British Mode (to my understanding) was a desire to influence the attack/release values - not the 1:1 ratio and knee setting.

The Distressor was a digital controlled alternative to the 1176 (FET), LA2A (OPTO) and VCA165 (analog VCA) in the first place, while being way more affordable as well.


The british mode mod for the original distressor was accessed via the 1:1 ratio and flipping the mode switch.

That's simply how it worked.

edit: Citation -

How to use the new British Mode Option for the first time
Put the unit in the 1:1 ratio and turn on the British Mode Switch (flip it up and the LED should be lit).
That enables it. To sound like the 1176 the only constraint is to keep the attack well under 4 on the
Distressors - their attack can go much longer than the 1176. Now you will find that the unit has a new
attitude! The attack and release will generally be more aggressive and the unit will get in and out of the
way very quickly. Interestingly, the unit will be slightly less colored when not compressing.
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kobal
KVRist
 
129 posts since 5 Jul, 2004

Postby kobal; Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:06 am Re: SKnote release Disto-S - A Distressor, fast and effective.

1.1 always compress on a distressor with british mode, it emulate all button on of the 1176 , but you can also use that super fast attack release at all available ratio and their different curves ( sotmhing really sick for compression maniacs that i doubt can be emulated in software )
it s not possible to use the the clipping of the distressor with bypassing the compressor, distressor is cool but the only analog mojo is to not have digital artifacts, otherwise it have zero analog mojo
Last edited by kobal on Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:17 am, edited 7 times in total.
jbarish
KVRer
 
16 posts since 27 Apr, 2017

Postby jbarish; Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:07 am Re: SKnote release Disto-S - A Distressor, fast and effective.

a no demos, 7 day (as long as the developer feels like giving a) refund policy is not very reassuring and is one of the reasons sknote is not bigger than it is. But we've seen that Quint cannot be wrong. Which would be another large reason that sknote will always be a 4th or 5th rate company.
Compyfox
KVRAF
 
14133 posts since 18 Oct, 2003, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Compyfox; Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:09 am Re: SKnote release Disto-S - A Distressor, fast and effective.

Omnivox wrote:I can say that I prefer this GUI - didn't get much use from Fatso units so far, and this compressor is simply wonderful, especially for the price - you get two units for one pretty low price, and it's great!


Don't make the mistake and let the price fool you.


There is currently a whooping roughly 83% introductory discount(!!!) due to AES143 in NY. The MSRP will be 299USD, the "intro price" is currently 49,99USD.

Sknote.PNG


While this is currently "merely" 10USD more expensive than previous versions (according to KVR news entries), there are a couple of things to consider:

  • there is no upgrade pricing for existing users - the upgrade is free
  • while the intro price is definitely a stab at the competition get out on top (the competition is in the 250-300USD price range)
  • it will definitely be a huge slap in the face for new customers because of the price jump from 50USD to 300USD, while "previous customers" initially only invested 40USD and no upgrade fees either
  • especially considering that there is no available demo, and the refunding is a topic in itself
  • also, there is no mention for how long this "introductory discount" will remain


Not only is the developer undermining the value of his own creation with this move, this is also borderline aiming at ripping off possible future customers. Because explain me this: how can SKnote software products be in the 30-40USD (on avg) range, but suddenly this plugin will cost as much as his cheapest hardware compressor?

There was no official announcement of "licensed/endorsed by Empirical Labs" (at least, none that I'm aware of) - only this on the product page:
Note: All textual, visual and aural references to the Distressor and the FATSO Jr (Empirical Labs’ products) and use of certain Empirical Labs’ trademarks are being made with written permission from Empirical Labs.


Which is not the same. IMO, YMMV and all that good stuff.



Proceed with caution!




Robert Randolph wrote:The british mode mod for the original distressor was accessed via the 1:1 ratio and flipping the mode switch.

That's simply how it worked.

edit: Citation -

How to use the new British Mode Option for the first time
Put the unit in the 1:1 ratio and turn on the British Mode Switch (flip it up and the LED should be lit).
That enables it. To sound like the 1176 the only constraint is to keep the attack well under 4 on the
Distressors - their attack can go much longer than the 1176. Now you will find that the unit has a new
attitude! The attack and release will generally be more aggressive and the unit will get in and out of the
way very quickly. Interestingly, the unit will be slightly less colored when not compressing.


I stand corrected - I must have over read that in the EL-8/EL-8X manual.

If it's really only working in 1:1 with an altered/fixed ratio after the mode was engaged, then to me, this mode doesn't make any sense to even implement in the first place. Compared to that, the "OPTO response setting" does make more sense. And that is already kind of "meh" to me.


kobal wrote:1.1 always compress on a distressor with british mode, it emulate all button on of the 1176 , but you can also use that super fast attack release at all available ratio


Again, if if it's "all-button-in" from the 1176, why not just use the "NUKE" mode of the EL-8


But to each his own. :shrug:
It's your money, people.




jbarish wrote:a no demos, 7 day (as long as the developer feels like giving a) refund policy is not very reassuring and is one of the reasons sknote is not bigger than it is. But we've seen that Quint cannot be wrong. Which would be another large reason that sknote will always be a 4th or 5th rate company.


Seriously - we need more posts like this!
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kobal
KVRist
 
129 posts since 5 Jul, 2004

Postby kobal; Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:11 am Re: SKnote release Disto-S - A Distressor, fast and effective.

nuke is something different if i remember more like limiting maybe , 1.1 is the all button mode, distressors have been moded to add this mode at some point, they just didint change the interface i guess and kept the old 1.1 ( it was actually a mode to bypass the compression and just use the saturation if i remember on the first distressors )
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