Sascha Franck wrote:Sorry, but I completely disagree. If what you are saying was correct, stacked humbuckers would suffer from the same high frequency roll off (in fact, to me it's even more a loss of "snappiness", but that's beyond the point for now), which they clearly don't.Tubeman wrote: The high frequency roll off in series wired humbucker does not happen because of different spots but simply because there is twice as much wire or 'turns' hence more inductance which lowers the resonance frequency of the pickup. And more turns=more output.
but the DO bro...stacked humbuckers sound like stacked humbuckers....more say firebird tone than les paul, but they don;t sound like single coils at all.
some of them do, like the vintage noiseless fenders, but those aren;t truly just "stacked" humbuckers.
And well, it's just perfectly explaninable as well that capturing an oscillating string at two different positions, especially in case those positions are close to each other (which is the case, using a humbucker) will result in a somewhat less "clear" sound. After all, the amplitudes of the oscillating string will not be "synchronized" (in lack of a better word) when using two different spots to pick them up.
Following your logic, it wouldn't even matter where to place the additional coil - which clearly isn't the case as it matters a LOT - something you can easily check for yourself by simply switching around with your PU selector.
I have to disagree again. A paralelly wired humbucker won't just be lower in volume, it will also sound somewhat thinner, slightly going into single coil alike sound territory. There's no way a paralelly wired humbucker would sound the same as a serially wired one, once you raise the gain. There's also quite a difference in "thickness" (again in lack of a better word).While paraller wired humbucker will have no change in resonance frequency but lower output.
I don't know why that is, but having used different serial, single coil or parallel wiring modes for humbuckers, I certainly do know that it's like that. I could probably even prove that by running a humbucker in either mode through an analyzer.
guitar pickup sim?
-
pinkjimiphoton pinkjimiphoton https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=83788
- KVRAF
- 4790 posts since 9 Oct, 2005 from New England
-
- KVRist
- 328 posts since 6 Sep, 2003
It is correct. Just read about how inductance or inductive reactance reacts versus frequency... maybe this is all too deep info. I didn't say differen't spots won't affect the signal. Try winding 2 otherwise identical coils but the other one twice as much rounds... then listen which on has more high frequencies.Sascha Franck wrote:Sorry, but I completely disagree. If what you are saying was correct, stacked humbuckers would suffer from the same high frequency roll off (in fact, to me it's even more a loss of "snappiness", but that's beyond the point for now), which they clearly don't.
Again I didn't say that did I? Quoting myself (sigh): "While paraller wired humbucker will have no change in resonance frequency but lower output." Which means there is no change in resonance frequency compared to _single coil_ of the humbucker thus no high frequency roll off like in series connection.Sascha Franck wrote: I have to disagree again. A paralelly wired humbucker won't just be lower in volume, it will also sound somewhat thinner, slightly going into single coil alike sound territory. There's no way a paralelly wired humbucker would sound the same as a serially wired one, once you raise the gain.
I hope this clears things up, I really don't want to repeat this over and over again...
-
- KVRist
- 328 posts since 6 Sep, 2003
Man, while i'm not your bro, I really hope you are just joking... right? This is mostly nonsense what you wrote.pinkjimiphoton wrote:humbuckers sample a greater amount of string is why,lol...
but a himbucker doesn;t give twice the signal, in deed most single coils are louder than a standard humbucker, as a lot of frequencies in the high end are lost due to phase cancellation in a humbucker, that's why the coils are wound so much hotter, in part to try to make up for the volume loss inherent in the design.
identical hubucker coils would cancel EVERYTHING.
any number = the exact number but opposite =zero, bro.
-
- KVRAF
- 1907 posts since 29 Oct, 2003
With humbuckers in parallel:
- every inductance introduces phase shift, in this case that would affect hi-frequency content and transients, that's evident on stacked pickups
- soapbars f.e. "listen" to two diff points on a given string, in paralell they sound more like two pickups (some more than others, depends on their physical construction)
- every inductance introduces phase shift, in this case that would affect hi-frequency content and transients, that's evident on stacked pickups
- soapbars f.e. "listen" to two diff points on a given string, in paralell they sound more like two pickups (some more than others, depends on their physical construction)
-
- KVRAF
- 13086 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany
Yeah, indeed.Tubeman wrote: Man, while i'm not your bro, I really hope you are just joking... right? This is mostly nonsense what you wrote.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
-
- KVRAF
- 14656 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
Hm... which is how a "double coil" system would work anyway, since the signal is stacked. Like I mentioned earlier, I'd get something like a haas effect if I'd record each coil seperately.Sascha Franck wrote:No idea. Perhaps it could be an idea to double the signal, add a really tiny bit of delay (maybe less than 5ms or so) and slightly mix that signal in to fatten things up.
Actually I'd also have to modulate the delayed signal a bit. If I layer both signals then, I get a certain boost and cut here and there (comb filter effect), which'd indeed come close to the desired effect, and I get an additional 6dB boost in the progress, too.
Then again, it still misses the aspect of cutting/rolling off the high and lowend, and the hum that single coils create if you're close to any radiating equipment.
We could port this into PM mode in German if you want, then I can describe myself a tad better, and I really do appreciate your input since we met at Musikmesse 2008.
True that, but... it can at least be abused for "some" soli stuff and power chords. Then again, it seems that only Sergey from Musiclab knows how to "play" this thing.Sascha Franck wrote:But then, I guess the problem with RealStrat isn't that it's using single coils. I mean, it's not a real guitar...
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 314 posts since 12 Dec, 2006
- KVRian
- 698 posts since 7 Dec, 2009 from GWB
Okay, almost 10 years later. At the very least, IK’s Modo Bass suggests that it’s possible to model pickups. Has anyone offered a guitar pickup as a VST effect? Or Reaktor ensemble?
EDIT:
I see AcmeBarGig used to offer the Red Shift Pickup Replacer.
Distorque Audio has a humbucker Spice model posted. Also their treble boost plug has some pickup modeling.
Don Till has a nice Javascript demo here: http://www.till.com/articles/PickupResp ... index.html
EDIT:
I see AcmeBarGig used to offer the Red Shift Pickup Replacer.
Distorque Audio has a humbucker Spice model posted. Also their treble boost plug has some pickup modeling.
Don Till has a nice Javascript demo here: http://www.till.com/articles/PickupResp ... index.html
-
- KVRAF
- 2421 posts since 15 Jul, 2004 from Italy
Yes, we are coming with a virtual world we call "Retube". Includes all the parts from the Guitar-Pedalboard-Amp system, including pickups.
Being the interaction among pickup, amplifier, load (the cone and the environment) quite strong, mainly for classic tube stages, and because we are modeling everything at a low level (components, parts, etc., as opposed to "black-box" approach like profiling) we are modeling the options: replace the pickup, the set of tubes, the transformers, the cone.
Pickup modeling is quite interesting if done at a low level, like modeling metals, coils, etc.
It gets its real meaning if the model includes the most possible parts. I mean, pickup modeling going into a virtual amp (of the same system) is interesting for sure.
It is an interesting subject thanks to the data available on the website of some producers (e.g. S. Duncan) and to the possibility of actually building prototypes and extracting parameters for the models. Like measuring the difference in the line of '50, '60, '70 etc Fender pickups.
Being the interaction among pickup, amplifier, load (the cone and the environment) quite strong, mainly for classic tube stages, and because we are modeling everything at a low level (components, parts, etc., as opposed to "black-box" approach like profiling) we are modeling the options: replace the pickup, the set of tubes, the transformers, the cone.
Pickup modeling is quite interesting if done at a low level, like modeling metals, coils, etc.
It gets its real meaning if the model includes the most possible parts. I mean, pickup modeling going into a virtual amp (of the same system) is interesting for sure.
It is an interesting subject thanks to the data available on the website of some producers (e.g. S. Duncan) and to the possibility of actually building prototypes and extracting parameters for the models. Like measuring the difference in the line of '50, '60, '70 etc Fender pickups.