If you use an American credit card to buy a NI product (Germany), are you charged an Int'l fee ?

[jancivil]

I don't get how the 'American' credit card buying something listed in US dollars is going to set something off so you get charged as a European. I imagined that my NI buys are through LA, don't know though. But I buy from VSL, definitely in Vienna, and there is no added charge for overseas.

[sjm]

My understanding of this thread is that you are confusing commission for currency conversion (which may have many different names) with "purchases made overseas".

What matters is the currency of your card/bank account/payment method you choose and the currency of the transaction. If they are different, you need to convert currencies, and that isn't free. If you have an account in USD, and you pay in USD, no currency conversion is necessary. But if you have an account in Tanzanian shillings and you purchase something in Samaoan tala, you need to convert your shillings into tala to complete the payment. To do this, you pay whatever rate the payment provider you are using charges to provide that service. This is no different from making a wire transfer in a different currency to that of your account, or from using your credit card abroad (the normally ~3% on each transaction is the CC company's commission for converting from USD in your account to EUR used to pay in Belgium).

So in short, if your account is in USD, and you are being charged in USD, you will not pay for the currency conversion.

https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card ... on-fee.php

[EnochLight]

Why make it so complicated? Just do the crossgrade, enter your payment info, and see if any fees show up in your total before you click the final "submit" button.

Fees are charged by the CC company afterwards.

Weird. Never had that happen. Maybe it depends on the card/bank?

[ATN69]

I don't get how the 'American' credit card buying something listed in US dollars is going to set something off so you get charged as a European. I imagined that my NI buys are through LA, don't know though. But I buy from VSL, definitely in Vienna, and there is no added charge for overseas.

If you buy something listed as, let's say US$100, then you will pay US$100 + any bank or visa charge. The currency conversion if any should not add to the listed price of US$100. It would be very wrong if you have to pay US$100, conversion to EUR + currency conversion charge. That would mean the listed price of US$100 is totally wrong in such case. Paypal will charge you US$100 + Paypal charges as another example.

Same goes for VAT. It's actually wrong for any company to charge VAT if you as customer buy a European product while you are living in US. I know some companies they are cheating and use the VAT as an excuse to make extra money. Parawave / Rapid is such example. I live in Hong Kong and purchased Rapid, and was charged European VAT. This is totally wrong according to the rules. It's the same as if I travel to Europe, buy some items like clothes or other stuff, then at the airport before leaving EU I can claim back the VAT. You should according to the rules pay the US VAT for any overseas purchase, but I doubt anyone freely contact the revenue department and ask where and how to pay that VAT. Hong Kong doesn't have any VAT so no matter what I buy and from what country I should never pay any VAT.

As a seller of software licenses to customers abroad (outside of EU), following rules apply,
http://europa.eu/youreurope/business/va ... dex_en.htm

[msorrels]

Some bank credit cards charge a foreign transaction fee (usually 3%) even if the merchant charges the card in USD. Wells Fargo and Citibank both do this. They also charge an additional amount for the currency conversion. I've been bitten by this a number of times. It's triggered by the merchant's card processing account location. And you won't see it until the end of the month when you get your credit card bill. It is completely separate from the currency conversion issue.

That said, I don't think I've ever seen one on my NI store purchases. I believe they process through their US office for US purchases.

Paypal can also be useful for this, if the merchant charges in USD but is foreign your credit card bank may still see that as a US transaction (with Paypal) and not add the fee. At least I'm pretty sure it's worked that way for me, but your mileage may vary.

[JJBiener]

NI has a US subsidiary that you actually buy from. You will not be charged a fee. My card won't allow foreign purchases at all, and I have bought tons of NI stuff. If you think about it, NI could not function in the US if it had to constantly deal with foreign purchases. So buy it, and don't worry.

[fmr]

I don't get how the 'American' credit card buying something listed in US dollars is going to set something off so you get charged as a European. I imagined that my NI buys are through LA, don't know though. But I buy from VSL, definitely in Vienna, and there is no added charge for overseas.

If you buy something listed as, let's say US$100, then you will pay US$100 + any bank or visa charge. The currency conversion if any should not add to the listed price of US$100. It would be very wrong if you have to pay US$100, conversion to EUR + currency conversion charge. That would mean the listed price of US$100 is totally wrong in such case. Paypal will charge you US$100 + Paypal charges as another example.

These taxes are, if I know it well, taxes imposed on transactions done in foreign currency. Ther are not charged by the vendor, they are charged AFTER, by the credit card company (in my case it's my bank) when they process the movement. So, they do not appear in the transaction, since they are not charged at that moment. Paypal don't charge you nothing when you pay in foreign currency, AFAIK. They simply apply their own exchange value, as any other axchanging entity. That value varies daily.

Same goes for VAT. It's actually wrong for any company to charge VAT if you as customer buy a European product while you are living in US. I know some companies they are cheating and use the VAT as an excuse to make extra money. Parawave / Rapid is such example. I live in Hong Kong and purchased Rapid, and was charged European VAT. This is totally wrong according to the rules. It's the same as if I travel to Europe, buy some items like clothes or other stuff, then at the airport before leaving EU I can claim back the VAT. You should according to the rules pay the US VAT for any overseas purchase, but I doubt anyone freely contact the revenue department and ask where and how to pay that VAT. Hong Kong doesn't have any VAT so no matter what I buy and from what country I should never pay any VAT.

As a seller of software licenses to customers abroad (outside of EU), following rules apply,
http://europa.eu/youreurope/business/va ... dex_en.htm

VAT currently is a complete mess, after the directive of 2015. Parawave is not doing things well, and I did warn him. I was going to buy Rapid, but I was demanded to pay VAT. AS a registered VAT person (someone who buys and sells things) by law I don't have to pay VAT on transactions outside my own country. I explained that to him, but he told me his "system" didn't allow to waive taxes.

As I said, before 2015, VAT was only charged inside the country. So, if I was going to UK or France, I would pay VAT on purchases there at their local taxes, and the tax amount was charged by that contry.

Now, in electronic transactions, each vendor has to know ALL the different taxes, from ALL the 27 EU countries, and charge in that respective tax to ALL customers. AND the amounts have to be sent to the respective countries, because that's where they belong. I sincerely doubt that EVERYBODY sends periodically the amounts charged to the respective countries. And I doubt that there is any way to check if the law is being respected.

[felis]

can't find the delete tab

[jancivil]

I don't get how the 'American' credit card buying something listed in US dollars is going to set something off so you get charged as a European. I imagined that my NI buys are through LA, don't know though. But I buy from VSL, definitely in Vienna, and there is no added charge for overseas.

If you buy something listed as, let's say US$100, then you will pay US$100 + any bank or visa charge. The currency conversion if any should not add to the listed price of US$100. It would be very wrong if you have to pay US$100, conversion to EUR + currency conversion charge. That would mean the listed price of US$100 is totally wrong in such case. Paypal will charge you US$100 + Paypal charges as another example.

Re: PayPal fee charged by merchant
A Merchant or Seller cannot pass on the transaction processing fees to their customers - this is called a Surcharge and is "clearly" addressed in the User Agreement. However, the Merchant or Seller can apply a "handling" fee to cover additional costs such as shipping/packaging materials and/or labor.

When I have a choice I use my card. Last time I bought something listed in Euros was VSL at 111.5 euros and it appears as 114 at my Paypal subsequently; which I take as a charge to convert my dollars. Paypal makes their money charging the merchant.

[jancivil]

NI is listed as dollars and it's simply 1:1 WYSIWYG.

[msorrels]

Re: PayPal fee charged by merchant
A Merchant or Seller cannot pass on the transaction processing fees to their customers - this is called a Surcharge and is "clearly" addressed in the User Agreement. However, the Merchant or Seller can apply a "handling" fee to cover additional costs such as shipping/packaging materials and/or labor.

PayPal was sued and lost (or settled) and as a result this is no longer true, merchants can (and do check out Tracktion's store) charge a PayPal fee. Same goes with credit cards now as well. Which is why gas stations have begun offering cash discount prices again. It's only changed in the last few years.

[EnochLight]

Which is why gas stations have begun offering cash discount prices again. It's only changed in the last few years.

Huh? Gas stations in the US (at least in the Detroit area) have charged less for cash transactions for the better part of 30 years. I know because I have family members who own gas stations. Maybe it's different where you're from, though.

[Bansaw]

Just to conclude this topic, I phoned NI in California and they confirmed that for people resident in the U.S. the website directs them to the US currency shopping cart based on their IP address, and payments are processed by the office in California.