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Blue Cat Audio
KVRAF
 
3149 posts since 7 Sep, 2004, from Paris (France)

Postby Blue Cat Audio; Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:30 am Blue Cat Audio PatchWork Host Updated with GUI zoom and built-in FX

Since PatchWork is a bit of an hybrid thing (both a plug-ins host application and plug-in), we have already posted the full story about the PatchWork 2.1 update in the effects section, but thought you might be interested in the news here too (sorry for the crosspost).

And in case you don't know this host yet, here is some more information:

PatchWork Overview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvFbD_889z4
Getting Started with PatchWork:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ocv6ez5-8c
lfm
KVRAF
 
4237 posts since 22 Jan, 2005, from Sweden

Postby lfm; Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:56 am Re: Blue Cat Audio PatchWork Host Updated with GUI zoom and built-in FX

I think the strict ways of a grid is not as flexible as I hoped an update would support - and would have made me interested in upgrade from v1.x.

Thinking just loading what you want to use, using virtual cable connecting. More like Metaplugin, type of visual approach.

And doing a bunch of vst midi plugins loading a number of hosts - there are quite a few settings to do get midi where you want it etc. Host or the internal patch routes etc.

It could be steal a bit from what I saw FL Studio did with virtual cables for routing etc, as well as Metaplugin visual approach.

I've had a lot of stability issues, and compatibility with presets DDMF made over dot-updates - so don't use MP much. But the idea is really good how you do things - very easy to setup.

Stability is better in Patchwork, once you get it set up. And your update policy for a year or so was excellent too, eventually doing gui-less support.

Just a little feedback from one customer....
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Blue Cat Audio
KVRAF
 
3149 posts since 7 Sep, 2004, from Paris (France)

Postby Blue Cat Audio; Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:19 am Re: Blue Cat Audio PatchWork Host Updated with GUI zoom and built-in FX

Thanks for the feedback!

Well, the intent of PatchWork is to actually avoid the need to manage virtual cables, so there will never be an update that would let you do that (it could be another plug-in, but definitely not PatchWork). The idea is to be able to just load plug-ins and play... No need to connect them.

There is however MIDI routing available (you can route the MIDI output of any plug-in to the MIDI input of any other plug-in hosted in PatchWork using internal virtual MIDI ports).
lfm
KVRAF
 
4237 posts since 22 Jan, 2005, from Sweden

Postby lfm; Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:19 am Re: Blue Cat Audio PatchWork Host Updated with GUI zoom and built-in FX

Blue Cat Audio wrote:Thanks for the feedback!

Well, the intent of PatchWork is to actually avoid the need to manage virtual cables, so there will never be an update that would let you do that (it could be another plug-in, but definitely not PatchWork). The idea is to be able to just load plug-ins and play... No need to connect them.

There is however MIDI routing available (you can route the MIDI output of any plug-in to the MIDI input of any other plug-in hosted in PatchWork using internal virtual MIDI ports).


But there are routings to make - like which outputs where you want audio to go etc. Had to look around a bit before I found how to make second synth go to second stereo pair.
This is hidden a bit now in menu(maybe something was improved in v2, don't know).

Load a number of synths/plugin - and host midi in goes to all of them. So if using vst midi plugins like Insert Piz or similar to do things - there are huge number of menus to go through and select how midi is to be routed. Like an arpeggiator in there, or filter certain key range to go on one midi channel or split a chord into midi channels and such.

Patchwork and this kind of hosting is excellent to do these things, not so easily done ín many daws. Just do two synths in parallell is easy in Patchwork - but also in most daws. Cubase has midi send and so has Reaper to mention two. In Mixcraft you just stack them after each other - and have same functionality as Patchwork in a breeze.

So where Patchwork really is better use and shines over anything is doing more than two in parallell. Like some serial stuff in various ways too.

So maybe also routing midi in serial as default for those that have audio in serial - like a preferences setting or something. That you make the internal for midi go the same route. So all horizontal connected also get midi connected that way - not host to each.

And when a synth is loaded - you have to turn audio path on through it - it's not on by default. Make blue button lit - or no go. That could be on by default(I'm talking v1.x).

I think visual approach is much more user friendly.

You try to make it sound like it is so simple now and visual would just complicate things - I think it is the other way around.

You don't have to make visual so flexible as Metaplugin - more like FL Studio. Like small visual cable you just move to a new position - and draw some symbolic connection there.

But all horizontal also get midi in serial would be helpful - from second position on then. And if you in first vertical column could tap from any point to any row - also nice if simplified with visual assistance.

Anyway, just a bunch of more ideas...but forgive me if kicking in open doors of some things already in v2.
xbitz
KVRAF
 
1837 posts since 3 Oct, 2013, from Budapest

Postby xbitz; Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:38 am Re: Blue Cat Audio PatchWork Host Updated with GUI zoom and built-in FX

IMHO there is no need another MUX/Bidule/Reaktor Blocks etc. on the market, PatchWork is working differently and do it right

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtFL_65iB0c&t=5s
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat
elassi
KVRAF
 
1801 posts since 8 Sep, 2009

Postby elassi; Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:01 am Re: Blue Cat Audio PatchWork Host Updated with GUI zoom and built-in FX

@lfm

The Midi-routing PW is quite flexible but I agree that it's tedious due to the fact that the menu disappears once you select a Midi port. So, in case you want to change (let's say) from Port A#1 to A#2 for a synth you have to envoke the menu twice: First to deselect the old input, a second time to select the new one.

If you use a Midi tool (as you mentioned) in the Pre-channel it's even more clicking because then you'll most likely do not want the host Midi to go directly to the Parallel chains. This means: deselect Host midi there. That's a lot of clicking until you're ready to go...

Other than that I'm happy with the update. Since the new FX are included the missing "Pan" for the individual chains is no longer a problem. :tu:
lfm
KVRAF
 
4237 posts since 22 Jan, 2005, from Sweden

Postby lfm; Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:11 am Re: Blue Cat Audio PatchWork Host Updated with GUI zoom and built-in FX

elassi wrote:@lfm

The Midi-routing PW is quite flexible but I agree that it's tedious due to the fact that the menu disappears once you select a Midi port. So, in case you want to change (let's say) from Port A#1 to A#2 for a synth you have to envoke the menu twice: First to deselect the old input, a second time to select the new one.

If you use a Midi tool (as you mentioned) in the Pre-channel it's even more clicking because then you'll most likely do not want the host Midi to go directly to the Parallel chains. This means: deselect Host midi there. That's a lot of clicking until you're ready to go...

Other than that I'm happy with the update. Since the new FX are included the missing "Pan" for the individual chains is no longer a problem. :tu:


Thanks for input. We are on the same page for sure.

There could be a helper of some sort, that do the bits for you.
Thinking how ProTools having patch points and sends - and have an option to create both a send and a patchpoint with same name to go with it to an effects bus. So it becomes one operation and quick to do.

Let's say just a click and a menu between two horizontal in chain - and option - midi from previous, midi to next - or similar things - and they use unused internal midi cable do these steps for you. This in 2s instead of 20-30s or so. There are many way to do it, so just one idea that pops up. Do a drag-n-drop of a midi symbol in gui - or whatever.

While holding mouse down on a button - show all midi routings written directly over in gui like rubber bands. Let button go - and it disappears. Quick way to see current routings for midi at any stage in making a setup. Good overview.

Last column plugins before audio out - show numbers, like 3+4 on symbol, which outs are used. Not needing to run audio to see nothing on meters where you expect it to.

Developers do really useful options as of now - but maybe don't spend enough time doing what users might do - so they notice what is really more steps than necessary.

But I might be kicking in some open doors on some suggestions.
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Blue Cat Audio
KVRAF
 
3149 posts since 7 Sep, 2004, from Paris (France)

Postby Blue Cat Audio; Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:09 am Re: Blue Cat Audio PatchWork Host Updated with GUI zoom and built-in FX

Thanks for posting more details. The GUI is indeed not always optimal for more advanced tasks, and we'll have to keep working on it.

However, the main idea behind the plug-in is NOT to have to go thru the pains of modular hosts for simple tasks (manually wiring parallel chains with pre and post plug-ins will take much longer than using PatchWork). So we try to keep the balance in favor of simplicity (which indeed has limits). Improving visual feedback and options for Audio and MIDI I/O is indeed in our todo list.
Dewdman42
KVRian
 
1299 posts since 14 Mar, 2006

Postby Dewdman42; Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:40 pm Re: Blue Cat Audio PatchWork Host Updated with GUI zoom and built-in FX

Thanks for the update. I notice the manual you destributed has not been updated to 2.1?

  1. how is the new zoom feature used?
  2. how does one go about instantiating one of the LateReplies FX into a plugin slot?
LPX, Omnisphere2, komplete11, AAS, Geist, Tremor, OPX, KorgLegacy, GForce, ModoBass, EastWest, KirkHunter, Finale, Overture5, Notion, DP, Reaper, MuseScore, RapidComposer, VB3, B4II, SGear, JamVox, Amplitube, SSD4, SD2, Jamstix, AddictiveKeys and more..
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Blue Cat Audio
KVRAF
 
3149 posts since 7 Sep, 2004, from Paris (France)

Postby Blue Cat Audio; Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:49 am Re: Blue Cat Audio PatchWork Host Updated with GUI zoom and built-in FX

The manual has been updated, but it indeed does not contain the changelist. To answer your questions:
1. Just click on the magnifier icon to select the zoom factor (you can see the feature demonstrated in the demo videos above)
2. It is just like for any other plug-in: click on the slot, select "Load VST" and load Late Replies from the VST installed on the system (it is named "BC Late Replies").

Hope this helps!
Dewdman42
KVRian
 
1299 posts since 14 Mar, 2006

Postby Dewdman42; Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:39 pm Re: Blue Cat Audio PatchWork Host Updated with GUI zoom and built-in FX

well... I can't find any VST plugin called BC Late Replies. I can open your factory presets that have them and there they are working, but I can't find the actual plugin to create my own preset.
LPX, Omnisphere2, komplete11, AAS, Geist, Tremor, OPX, KorgLegacy, GForce, ModoBass, EastWest, KirkHunter, Finale, Overture5, Notion, DP, Reaper, MuseScore, RapidComposer, VB3, B4II, SGear, JamVox, Amplitube, SSD4, SD2, Jamstix, AddictiveKeys and more..
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Blue Cat Audio
KVRAF
 
3149 posts since 7 Sep, 2004, from Paris (France)

Postby Blue Cat Audio; Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:34 pm Re: Blue Cat Audio PatchWork Host Updated with GUI zoom and built-in FX

Sorry I think I misunderstood the question. You want to load the built-in FX plug-ins, right? (Late Replies is a separate plug-in).

The built-in effects are available in the favorites menu ("Select" sub-menu item when clicking on the plug-in slot). That's where you favorite configurations will also appear when you choose "Save As...".

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