Is Reason a viable main DAW?

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Anyone using Reason 9.5 or later as their main DAW?

Just got their BF upgrade offer ($99 from any previous version to Reason 10).

With all the talk about Cakewalk/Sonar's demise, it seems all of the other DAWs have been mentioned as replacements, with Reason being notably absent.

Did VST support not elevate it to the pile of top tier DAWs? Is the workflow too clunky? Not stable? What's the deal?

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Still missing some core functionality to lift it there and AFAIK VST performance is horrible. Personally, I would be fine using it as my major DAW, because I've very simple needs for what a DAW should do. Some stuff is still truly excellent, but other areas simply lack some bits and improvements.

I sold it pre the VST feature and gave it another spin with 9.5 and also now with 10. Reason's main strength still is the rack concept, but I felt, even though the VST implementation is the best you can get (aka making sense in the rack), rather overwhelmed by looking at the rack in its mixed fashion.
Last edited by tibah on Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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flugel45 wrote:Anyone using Reason 9.5 or later as their main DAW?

Just got their BF upgrade offer ($99 from any previous version to Reason 10).

With all the talk about Cakewalk/Sonar's demise, it seems all of the other DAWs have been mentioned as replacements, with Reason being notably absent.

Did VST support not elevate it to the pile of top tier DAWs? Is the workflow too clunky? Not stable? What's the deal?
In a word: yes. It's quite competent as a main DAW. It's rock solid stable - usually. There are some VST plugins which can bring it down, but it's rare. Using RE's, it's rock solid though. Workflow isn't clunky at all, if you buy into Reason's approach (rack paradigm; multiple window workspaces, as in one each for the rack, sequencer, and mixer). My advice is spend some time with the demo (it's fully functional) and see if you like it. If not, go with something else.

VST performance isn't as good as most other DAW, but it's not horrible. Its audio pitch editor for vocals is best in class, easily besting Melodyne Essentials in sound quality and workflow.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite | Reason 12 | i7 3770 @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro| Akai MPC Live II & Akai Force | Roland System 8 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland MX-1 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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Reason is perfectly viable as a main DAW, I've finished more tracks in Reason/Record than any other DAW. I only use VSTs in Reason when there's not a comparable native device. As EnochLight notes, pitch editing (and timestretching) are phenomenal.

There are a number of Reason workflow elements I don't like - zooming behavior, lack of options for "return cursor to beginning of project or last cursor position", and no simple way to quickly record master audio output like Ableton Live's "Resampling Input " (Reason "Sampling Input" is kinda close but not quite). Overall I think Reason adds up to more than the sum of its parts.

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flugel45 wrote:Anyone using Reason 9.5 or later as their main DAW?

With all the talk about Cakewalk/Sonar's demise, it seems all of the other DAWs have been mentioned as replacements, with Reason being notably absent.

What's the deal?
Since VST support is only a recent development for Reason, many users on KVR forum have other DAWs, so they don't consider Reason in the conversation.

I am currently on Reason 8.3 and I use Logic half of the time as well. I also use Reaper from time to time as a very lightweight CPU product on laptop. Saves muchly on battery life.

I have demoed Reason 10 extensively, and I can say that VST performance is quite poor. (I can easily get many more instances of plugs in Logic and Reaper). I believe this has something to do with processing plugs at 64 samples (due to needing that rate for CV capabilities behind the rack)

In addition, I have crashed Reason 10 demo more times in the past month than I have with Logic and Reaper combined in the past 2.5-3 years. Reason recovered the project about half the time to desktop but the other times, it just vaporized the session. This is using paid established plugins and not a bunch of cracked and/or freeware.

Because of that, I don't feel very confident using VST Reason (9.5/10) as I have using Reason 8.3 and versions before that.

Until Propellerhead deals with the CPU usage and/or the CV sample rate and graphics glitches in an update or upgrade, I'm afraid I can't even take advantage of even the $84 Reason 10 is going for at JRRshop for Black Friday.

THAT SAID, Reason 8.3 is extremely stable for me and I do rewire at times and/or bounce files into Logic/Reaper

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EnochLight wrote:
flugel45 wrote:Anyone using Reason 9.5 or later as their main DAW?

Just got their BF upgrade offer ($99 from any previous version to Reason 10).

With all the talk about Cakewalk/Sonar's demise, it seems all of the other DAWs have been mentioned as replacements, with Reason being notably absent.

Did VST support not elevate it to the pile of top tier DAWs? Is the workflow too clunky? Not stable? What's the deal?
In a word: yes. It's quite competent as a main DAW. It's rock solid stable - usually. There are some VST plugins which can bring it down, but it's rare. Using RE's, it's rock solid though. Workflow isn't clunky at all, if you buy into Reason's approach (rack paradigm; multiple window workspaces, as in one each for the rack, sequencer, and mixer). My advice is spend some time with the demo (it's fully functional) and see if you like it. If not, go with something else.

VST performance isn't as good as most other DAW, but it's not horrible. Its audio pitch editor for vocals is best in class, easily besting Melodyne Essentials in sound quality and workflow.
+1 what EnochLight says, with caveat:
personally I cannot attest to VST performance, it's Rack Extensions offer more than enough flexibility and variety now imho. And you have ReWire, if running without VST.

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If Reason were the only DAW in the world, I would be happy with it. It isn't so I use Reaper, but I bought into Vsts before Re was a thing, and so it didn't grab me at the right time, stars didn't align. I am curious how people feel about its audio capabilities. That is part of Reason I never tried. I have the limited version from the Korg bundle, I guess I could install it and find out.
If you have requests for Korg VST features or changes, they are listening at https://support.korguser.net/hc/en-us/requests/new

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It is true VST performance is VERY bad when compared to even worst DAW's on the market. There is now no doubt about it (see forum.reasontalk or here, or youtube)

But Reason in itself is VERY capable application. My suggestion is to try it - you can trial 30 days full no limits.

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Yeah, I think if you want to use Reason, Re format makes so much more sense to use than vsts.
If you have requests for Korg VST features or changes, they are listening at https://support.korguser.net/hc/en-us/requests/new

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I believe it still doesn't have freezing, has to be done manually

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I wish it was, but sadly... no.

They have so much to love, then they drop the ball on basic expectations.

For example. You can't do simple crossfades between two audio clips in their sequencer, like you can in probably every other DAW you can think of. You can't make your track heights any size you want, just the three preset sizes Propellerheads has decided is enough for you. It's that kind of stuff, in 2017, that just makes Reason kind of unbelievable. This is not ground breaking stuff, they could add this, but it seems there is no desire?

The fact that they made version 10 just a collection of rack devices is astonishing to me.

In my book, by todays standards, Reason is not a proper DAW.

Someone else on here summed up Reason recently and I have to agree. They essentially said that Reason is not a DAW, but a virtual instrument and fx rack with a crude sequencer attached. I couldn't agree more.

They need a boring update where ALL THEY DO is update their sequencer.

Calling a bunch of rack devices (that no one is asking for) a "new version" of Reason is a bit of a stretch. The timing of this "new version", just in time for the holiday shopping season looks like nothing more than a shameless money grab as well.

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It really depends.

For someone like me, who prefers to work "in the box" Reason is actually perfect, because it was designed to be just that. You get:
  • a full-range, comprehensive rack of very powerful - and greatly expanded in 10 - native instruments, effects and utilities that you can wire however you want replicating the modular / studio setup,
  • a bit outdated workflow-wise (like the poster above said), but otherwise fully-featured sequencer with some unique aspects to it (blocks mode, multiple midi lanes, really great audio comping, in-clip automation & automation clips, etc.),
  • an overwhelmingly huge mixer mimicking (emulating?) the classic SSL console, so from one place you control volume, panning, EQ, compression, sends, inserts, etc.
You don't really need VSTs and I can't comment on their performance, although they fit really great into the rack paradigm.

For someone who heavily relies on VSTs, has a workflow based on controllers like Push / Launchpad or is primarily working on orchestral compositions (and/or does a lot of complex MIDI editing) it might be not the best choice, though.

Try it for 30 days and see for yourself.
Last edited by antic604 on Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Music tech enthusiast
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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Just wanted to jump in and say that I really appreciate all the feedback in this thread, thank you! We'll definitely continue to improve Reason so stuff like this is very helpful. :party:

/Mattias, Reason Product Manager

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@Anosou/Mattias - you did the title track to TxK?!?! So many memories and sore thumbs playing it on the PS Vita :hyper: :love: :hug:
Music tech enthusiast
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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antic604 wrote:@Anosou/Mattias - you did the title track to TxK?!?! So many memories and sore thumbs playing it on the PS Vita :hyper: :love: :hug:
Haha, yeah I did! Been a huge Jeff Minter-fan forever. Space Giraffe was a monumental experience. Did two tracks for TxK all in Reason, mostly as a result of the ABL2 RE coming out at the same time Jeff was working on TxK. :phones:

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