Soundradix PI - special pie or bs?

[Caine123]

I got a nice bundle upgrade price, i might consider powair which costs 119 bucks. The upgrade bundle price is 349.
So i dunno if the 230 bucks more are worth to get drum leveller (seems nice), auto align (i dont record stuff) and PI (never heard oh such a tool).

Pi seems very interesting but one of its kind?
Also i read if u use it it will add ringing and repitch effects what would on the pbe hand maybe tighten somehow the mix but change the sound which is bs as i wanna use tools to make it better not worse.

[TIMT]

The repitching is likely because it operates on the principle of an allpass filter which tend to shift "pitch"too when automated.i personally didn't like it.the method used to "fix"the phase anomalies had too much of a sound plus on drums it didn't sound like it was retriggering properly to me at all.Drum Leveller is a cool plugin though.in most cases though (especially with electronic drums at least)dynamic phase rotation is not really necessary to begin with.i guess it's real benefit is on real acoustic kits etc that have constant shifts in phase based on how the player hits or articulates the kit pieces from hit to hit and how they interact with surrounding recorded elements that play at relatively the same time.it's whether or not you personally deem the artefacts created by Pi as trivial to the overall sonic result to get things maybe a few extra degrees in phase at certain frequencies between different parts of the arrangement/mix

[plexuss]

I use it. it works great for the bottom end but its hit-and-miss with higher and pitched trackes. it also has a lot of latency. but it works very well to keep the bottom end tracks phase aligned and the result is more clarity and focus in the bottom end. if i didnt' have it, i'd miss it.

[Caine123]

thanks plexuss, i just demo'ed it again and i wonder if you couldnt just use some eq and raise a bit the bottom end or saturator?

i insrted it in a channel with my kick and a 2nd instance for my snare and it was totally out of sync.... but it seems to have subtle pushed the low end a bit. kinda nice but the latency issue is crap... and my pc is really well + i wonder if there is another plugin makin this better.

i still wait to get powair cause i might get the bundle but not sure yet

[TIMT]

thanks plexuss, i just demo'ed it again and i wonder if you couldnt just use some eq and raise a bit the bottom end or saturator?

i insrted it in a channel with my kick and a 2nd instance for my snare and it was totally out of sync.... but it seems to have subtle pushed the low end a bit. kinda nice but the latency issue is crap... and my pc is really well + i wonder if there is another plugin makin this better.

i still wait to get powair cause i might get the bundle but not sure yet

Huh,it seems you don't grasp what it does if you think either of those processes are replacements for it.the "push"you hear in the bass is because the cycles between the 2 or more elements are more aligned in time (meaning the different hz cycles match up or oscillate from the same direction)i'm assuming it does this by using some kind of an FIR(would explain the latency at least) allpass filter that is able to track degrees of phase in the low end or something using an envelope follower.all EQ would do is exaggerate whatever phase discrepancies you may already have between the elements.it wont/can't fix any issues related to phase,but it will gladly add to them. EQ is about tonal/spectral imbalances between elements

You answered your own question though essentially.you can't really hear much of a difference so therefore it's sort of redundant for your purposes

[MogwaiBoy]

An alternative might be Melda's MAutoAlign. Surprisingly easy to setup - no special DAW routing, just put an instance on every track and assign them to groups, then it learns and compensates between instances within each group. As mentioned the result is a subtle improvement in clarity, distinction betweeen instruments, depth etc. I think PI does the same kinda thing.

[Soundplex]

Melda's MAutoAlign.

They copied a couple plugins from SoundRadix From what I read the original works way better. I think there was even an thread in the melda forum about it...

An alternative might be Melda's MAutoAlign... I think PI does the same kinda thing.

No, AutoAlign and PI are different. While AutoAlign tries to minimize the time differences between the same audio source recorded with multiple mics, PI checks the phase interaction of multiple sound sources and tries to optimize it.

Pi seems very interesting but one of its kind?
Also i read if u use it it will add ringing and repitch effects what would on the pbe hand maybe tighten somehow the mix but change the sound which is bs as i wanna use tools to make it better not worse.

Like any other effect it can sound worse than before if you're overdoing it and it depends on the audio sources, too.

[Caine123]

thanks a lot!

Powair i think i will definitely get, somehow i like it and sound radix.
this would make the bundle for me $374 - $119 = $225 for PI, Auto Align & Drum leveller.... hmmmm Auto Align i dont think i will use cause i use mostly percussion samples, nothing recorded myself. maybe it works for acapellas but otherwise i dont record something myself.

[Caine123]

I use it. it works great for the bottom end but its hit-and-miss with higher and pitched trackes. it also has a lot of latency. but it works very well to keep the bottom end tracks phase aligned and the result is more clarity and focus in the bottom end. if i didnt' have it, i'd miss it.

2 questions

1. it really seems to add some nice bottom end and i like it but isnt the stereo field changed?

dry
https://clyp.it/uvk2btvj

wet
https://clyp.it/fkfkqfxt

2, wouldyou put pi (switched off) on maybe 5-10 mixer channels with groups aligned in a project so you dont have to always put so many instanced and aligings every proejct?


this really seems to be a nice plugin, i wonder why this method/plugin style wasnt known before to me or talked about?

[plexuss]

I dont quite understand your question. Pi will attempt to phase-align all the tracks fed into it. An instance of Pi would be put on every track you want phase aligned, as the last plugin on each track. then you assign all those tracks to the same group. now, in any single instance of Pi showing the group, the parameters can be adjusted which will affect the process of all the instances on the same group. for example, lets say you have a boomy kick drum, a bass lead vocal, a bass guitar and synth pads with a loud low end. Pi would be put on each of these tracks and set to group 1. then open one of the Pi's on group 1 and turn it on and adjust the parameters. all those track will flow into that Pi and the phase alignment will attempt to be taken place across all of them on group 1.

Usually I find it works well and creates a more solid clearer low end with the instruments more clearly defined. but sometimes if you try it with a pitched sound and a more sustained sound, it will impart artifacts. you just have to try it.

[Caine123]

ok, i got the sound radix bundle, you know the feeling when you cannot get this out of your head and need it? it sucks......... but PI got me addicted and i think powair will be cool too, auto align i dont need i guess cause i dont record stuff and drum leveller seems to be nice instead of comp.

@PI
what would you guys suggest how to use it here?

e.g.
channels:
1 = kick
2 = Bass/808
3 = snare
4 = tom
5 = perc
6 = perc
7 = hihat open
8 = hihat close
9 = perc synth
10 = pad low
11 = pad flanged
12 = arp
13 = lead
14 = effect
15 = effect
16 = melody
17 = melody

so this is pretty basic but what i did was atm pi in EACH channel and giving EACH the groups like the channels = pi 1, pi 2 etc.

i guess this is incorrect?
how would you proceed to group them in pi?

[plexuss]

Pi Group 1, GRP MIX INT, GLB MODE LF
1 = kick | CW 0
2 = Bass/808 | CW 100
4 = tom | CW 500
10 = pad low | CW 1000

Adjust Channel Weight as needed based on how Pi reacts.

no Pi:
3 = snare
5 = perc
6 = perc
7 = hihat open
8 = hihat close
9 = perc synth
11 = pad flanged
12 = arp
13 = lead
14 = effect
15 = effect
16 = melody
17 = melody

[Caine123]

Pi Group 1, GRP MIX INT, GLB MODE LF
1 = kick | CW 0
2 = Bass/808 | CW 100
4 = tom | CW 500
10 = pad low | CW 1000

Adjust Channel Weight as needed based on how Pi reacts.

no Pi:
3 = snare
5 = perc
6 = perc
7 = hihat open
8 = hihat close
9 = perc synth
11 = pad flanged
12 = arp
13 = lead
14 = effect
15 = effect
16 = melody
17 = melody

thanks a lot! this is very interesting, im reading the manual and trying to get the workflow with it. so overall it seems to only affect the more mono/lower frequencied elements?

would the other elements just loose their stereo width then?

[ericzang]

Concerning stereo width, that reminds me of a comparison I did a while ago. I did a simple living room stereo recording of a friend playing the Persian santur (hammered dulcimer). I didn't place my mics in an optimal phase situation, just a rough AB arrangement. I compared "phase aligning" the left and right mics with two different approaches: MAutoalign (static shift) and Pi ("dynamic"(?)). Generally I find that closer phase coherence creates more stereo width.

The zip file linked here is with a couple humble mini omni mics. No other processing on the tracks (nor including the larger mics seen in the video). Examples are: Dry, MAutoAlign, and Pi.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zM3nw ... 42HI2ydkxU

I'm not a Pi expert, but generally I find special care must be taken to weight and/or group the tracks properly so as to avoid artifacts (sustained bass may get pitch wobble, or stereo field subtle shifting, potentially in the case of the above stereo AB mics).

Full recording here, but has other processing on it.
https://youtu.be/yXMJ03IrZYQ