Arturia V Collection 6

[ghettosynth]

So, the current incarnation of the Moog Modular, is it decent? How do the filters sound?

I don't think that they've updated the Moog Modular since V3/V4 in terms of the filter models, but I could be wrong.

Yeah, I can confirm going back and forth between the versions in V3/V4 and V5 that the sound is still the same. One can try some of the presets common to each version to validate this, for example (the presets designed by Jean-Michel Blanchet tend to be carried over between versions, I notice).

In fact, I found that pretty much all of the pre-V5 synths (CS-80, ARP, Modular, Prophet, Jupiter, SEM) have retained the same relative sound as before, with the exception of the Mini V, which I believe got a new filter model. From the patch notes, it seems they haven't modified the code bases of any of these synths, aside from squashing bugs and updating the GUIs.

I have VCollection 4.1 and Analog Lab 1, 2 and 3. I was testing for a long time the same presets on AL1 and AL2 versions and they sounded different. I don't know if better of worse. My favourite preset of AL1 sounds too different and traumatized me.
Cheers.

Really? That's interesting. Which ones sounded the most different?

For context, I have V Collection 3 mixed with a few updated versions (mostly for GUI usability purposes, like the Modular), and one of the things I did was to compare some common presets back and forth to see exactly how the sounds changed. Generally speaking, I found that any differences could be chalked up to elements like filter cutoff, envelope / LFO emphasis, etc. that could be tuned away, rather than differences in the harmonic content that would come from a change in oscillator or filter modelling, for example.

Which makes sense. They may have changed minor things but, AFAIK, there have been none of the type of changes that would elevate the sound quality in a significant way. I don't match presets to hear this I just give the filters a bit of torture to see how they cope. So, my testing procedure wouldn't reveal minor differences because, well, I'm not a purist and I don't give a shit about those differences.

Generally, however, it's a pretty strong indicator that things haven't been brought up to date if the CPU consumption remains the same and I suspect that may be a reason that things haven't been upgraded. Point blank, you can clearly see from the newer synths that it's not that they don't know how to make better sounding synths, I think that they're just afraid to piss off people still running their plugins on a pocket calculator.

[braj]

Generally, however, it's a pretty strong indicator that things haven't been brought up to date if the CPU consumption remains the same and I suspect that may be a reason that things haven't been upgraded. Point blank, you can clearly see from the newer synths that it's not that they don't know how to make better sounding synths, I think that they're just afraid to piss off people still running their plugins on a pocket calculator.

I have to agree with that, it would be harsh for Arturia to deal with all their old customers that can't run old projects because the old plugins are suddenly eating more CPU while also sounding different, even if they may be better, in a whole lot of mixes that won't be what people think.

I also wonder how they would market something that they advertised as being just like a Moog that is now updated to be 'even more' just like a Moog. I know they have to update them at some stage, but IMO they will need to do it without outright replacing the old plugins. I think it was kind of bad that they just replaced people's installs of Analog Lab 2 with 3, they should have been able to live next to each other until the user sees fit to uninstall V2.

[hellomrbike]

So, here's something I've been mulling over with regards to upgrading to V6:

I am casually interested in the Buchla, CMI, and DX7 emulations, and Synclavier from V5, but at the same time, I honestly don't know whether they're worth the $200. Specifically, the fact that the latter three are emulations of digital synthesizers means that "analogue-ness" is now a non-factor, and I don't think many people are clamouring for that "1983 16-bit DAC" sound.

And in a world where Serum, FM8, Razor, Harmor, etc. exist to do cutting edge additive/wavetable/FM synthesis, it seems really hard to justify buying emulations of synthesizers which use deliberately out-of-date or arcane implementations of these synthesis methods.

Basically, what I'd like to know is: Has anyone here fallen in love with the Synclavier, CMI, or DX7 emulations on a sound design level? Or, if you've been using them semi-frequently, in what capacity are they used?

[BMoore]

So, here's something I've been mulling over with regards to upgrading to V6:

I am casually interested in the Buchla, CMI, and DX7 emulations, and Synclavier from V5, but at the same time, I honestly don't know whether they're worth the $200. Specifically, the fact that the latter three are emulations of digital synthesizers means that "analogue-ness" is now a non-factor, and I don't think many people are clamouring for that "1983 16-bit DAC" sound.

And in a world where Serum, FM8, Razor, Harmor, etc. exist to do cutting edge additive/wavetable/FM synthesis, it seems really hard to justify buying emulations of synthesizers which use deliberately out-of-date or arcane implementations of these synthesis methods.

Basically, what I'd like to know is: Has anyone here fallen in love with the Synclavier, CMI, or DX7 emulations on a sound design level? Or, if you've been using them semi-frequently, in what capacity are they used?

Here's a tip. Download the demos.

[ghettosynth]

So, here's something I've been mulling over with regards to upgrading to V6:

I am casually interested in the Buchla, CMI, and DX7 emulations, and Synclavier from V5, but at the same time, I honestly don't know whether they're worth the $200. Specifically, the fact that the latter three are emulations of digital synthesizers means that "analogue-ness" is now a non-factor, and I don't think many people are clamouring for that "1983 16-bit DAC" sound.

And in a world where Serum, FM8, Razor, Harmor, etc. exist to do cutting edge additive/wavetable/FM synthesis, it seems really hard to justify buying emulations of synthesizers which use deliberately out-of-date or arcane implementations of these synthesis methods.

Basically, what I'd like to know is: Has anyone here fallen in love with the Synclavier, CMI, or DX7 emulations on a sound design level? Or, if you've been using them semi-frequently, in what capacity are they used?

Here's a tip. Download the demos.

Oh cmon, it's a valid question and the demos are too short to really dig into the details of any of the instruments that he's talking about.

[Dewdman42]

The Synclavier emu is something special I have to say. That is worth the price of the upgrade right there if you're on less then v5. There is nothing else like it, period, and it can make some really cool sounds. That actually pushed me over the edge to buy V Collection to begin with. Also SEM is pretty good, don't overlook that one. I'm not so sure the fairlight would excite me as much as the Synclavier did, but I can't justify the current upgrade price regardless, so...I'm waiting....but if you don't have v5 yet, Synclavier alone is something special, that is for sure. I also think the Matrix-12 is something special

[braj]

You know what excites me? The cost of the originals vs the cost of the emulations. I dunno, I'm just a synth junkie, and I never had the chance to play with the EMS or Synclavier when they were new, and you get the emulations for the price of a few video games if you play your cards right and buy it at discount. When I get the funds, I'm going to get V6.

[Ingonator]

And in a world where Serum, FM8, Razor, Harmor, etc. exist to do cutting edge additive/wavetable/FM synthesis, it seems really hard to justify buying emulations of synthesizers which use deliberately out-of-date or arcane implementations of these synthesis methods.

Basically, what I'd like to know is: Has anyone here fallen in love with the Synclavier, CMI, or DX7 emulations on a sound design level? Or, if you've been using them semi-frequently, in what capacity are they used?

None of the Arturia emulatios is just a 1:1 emulation bit they all include advanced features compared to the real thing.
Especially the DX7 V has a bigger amount of advanced features that go beyond a real DX7 and in parts are not even possible with FM8 (e.g. a dedicated filter for each operator and the option for a MSEG for all envelopes). The graphical enveleops in DX7 V are great and easy to use and if you switch them to a MSEG mode they could be very powerful and/or versatile.
You also get 2 additional mod envelopes and a quite powerful mod matrix.
Not to forget that you have a dedicated FM Feedback parameter for all operator, not just the single one from the 32 algorithms (which you could use too instead).


The CMI V is not just about sample playback but it is also a synthesizer (like the real thing was), The "Time Synth" (which could aso d resyntheis from samples) is not just a simple additive synth that creates a static single waveform like in e.g. the additive editor of Serum. In CMI V this uses 32 harmonics/partials where each of those has it's own multi stage envelope (MSEG) which could have up to hundreds of envelope stages and if you use all harmonics you have up to 32 of such envelopes.
If you programed a sound from scratch with the Time Synth you could than convert it back to a sample if you like.


Not to forget about Piano V2 which is a major update to Piano V and sounds really great now. Opposing to using samples this is a fully physical modeled acoustic piano plugin and the new Clavinet V plugin is physical modeled too.

[fmr]

Not to forget about Piano V2 which is a major update to Piano V and sounds really great now. Opposing to using samples this is a fully physical modeled acoustic piano plugin and the new Clavinet V plugin is physical modeled too.

As are the organs, and the electric pianos, and all the synths. Actually, the only instrument that uses samples, so far, is the CMI V.

I am casually interested in the Buchla, CMI, and DX7 emulations, and Synclavier from V5, but at the same time, I honestly don't know whether they're worth the $200. Specifically, the fact that the latter three are emulations of digital synthesizers means that "analogue-ness" is now a non-factor, and I don't think many people are clamouring for that "1983 16-bit DAC" sound.

And in a world where Serum, FM8, Razor, Harmor, etc. exist to do cutting edge additive/wavetable/FM synthesis, it seems really hard to justify buying emulations of synthesizers which use deliberately out-of-date or arcane implementations of these synthesis methods.

Basically, what I'd like to know is: Has anyone here fallen in love with the Synclavier, CMI, or DX7 emulations on a sound design level? Or, if you've been using them semi-frequently, in what capacity are they used?

Regarding the supposedly superiority of Serum, FM8, Razor and Harmor, you should take a closer look. First read carefully the specs of each of the synths you think they compete with.

First, neither the Synclavier nor the CMI V or the DX7 V match or can be matched by any of the quoted synths (I have and know all of them).

Second, none of the Arturia synths stick with the "old DACs/technology". They all include many features that place them firmly like modern alternatives that ALSO can emulate those old technologies. For people that seek the old - they can have it. For people that seek new synths with a touch of the past, they also have it. And none of the mentioned alternatives are real alternatives to any of Arturia mentioned synths. Even FM8, although it's the one that can compete closer. But regarding CMI V or Synclavier V no, neither Serum nor Harmor come even close. It would be like comparing a Tuba with a Contrabass.

Third, you are questioning if the four new instruments (plus Piano V2) worth 200 dollars. But you mentioned Serum which, alone, costs 190 (???). And FM8 costs 150. And Harmor costs 140. So, you still think that NONE of the four (plus Synclavier) is worthy (being absurd) of at least HALF of what the others cost? All of the compared synths are excellent synths, but... Think again.

Fourth, if you are mentioning Synclavier V, it means that you even don't have VC5, which means no Solina either. The Solina V is also a very cherished instrument by me (I always loved the sound of String Ensembles). Neither have the Stage V (emulation of the Rhodes). Or the B-3 V (Hammond).

[ghettosynth]

Third, you are questioning if the four new instruments (plus Piano V2) worth 200 dollars. But you mentioned Serum which, alone, costs 190 (???). And FM8 costs 150. And Harmor costs 140. So, you still thinh that NONE of the four (plus Synclavier) worths (being absurd) at least HALF of what the others cost? All of the compared synths are excellent synths, but... Think again.

Yes, but, but, but! Nobody pays $150 for FM8. You buy it with complete and it costs something like $6.

Fourth, if you are mentioning Synclavier V, it means that you even don't have VC5, which means no Solina either. The Solina V is also a very cherished instrument by me (I always loved the sound of String Ensembles). Neither have the Stage V (emulation of the Rhodes). Or the B-3 V (Hammond).

The thing with those though is that you get a lot of their sound from AnalogLab. Also, while $199 isn't bad, it will almost certainly go on sale. So it doesn't really matter if $199 is a good deal when the inevitable $99 will be a better deal.

[fmr]

Third, you are questioning if the four new instruments (plus Piano V2) worth 200 dollars. But you mentioned Serum which, alone, costs 190 (???). And FM8 costs 150. And Harmor costs 140. So, you still thinh that NONE of the four (plus Synclavier) worths (being absurd) at least HALF of what the others cost? All of the compared synths are excellent synths, but... Think again.

Yes, but, but, but! Nobody pays $150 for FM8. You buy it with complete and it costs something like $6.

True, but not a real argument, because you still have to pay "complete" the price of Komplete, even if you just want FM8. So, no, you can't argue with that.

Fourth, if you are mentioning Synclavier V, it means that you even don't have VC5, which means no Solina either. The Solina V is also a very cherished instrument by me (I always loved the sound of String Ensembles). Neither have the Stage V (emulation of the Rhodes). Or the B-3 V (Hammond).

The thing with those though is that you get a lot of their sound from AnalogLab. Also, while $199 isn't bad, it will almost certainly go on sale. So it doesn't really matter if $199 is a good deal when the inevitable $99 will be a better deal.

Not arguing with that either. If and when it goes on sale , it will be an even better bargain. And you get ALL of the current sounds with Analog Lab 3, which is something amazing - and any user that has at least VC4 registered will get AL3 for free, I think.

What we are discussing now is the current price, compared with the prices of what was considered as alternatives (which I think they even aren't). Everything can go on sale, we can even get it for free in a contest. But that doesn't change the real value of things.

I'm amazed when I see people claiming against 50 dollars for a CMI V and a DX7 V, and then go buy a new synth for 150 (launch price - real price will be even higher) - when the same synth, except for one single feature, was being sold at 30 dollars for iOS. But they are not questioning that

[ghettosynth]

Third, you are questioning if the four new instruments (plus Piano V2) worth 200 dollars. But you mentioned Serum which, alone, costs 190 (???). And FM8 costs 150. And Harmor costs 140. So, you still thinh that NONE of the four (plus Synclavier) worths (being absurd) at least HALF of what the others cost? All of the compared synths are excellent synths, but... Think again.

Yes, but, but, but! Nobody pays $150 for FM8. You buy it with complete and it costs something like $6.

True, but not a real argument, because you still have to pay "complete" the price of Komplete, even if you just want FM8. So, no, you can't argue with that.

Fourth, if you are mentioning Synclavier V, it means that you even don't have VC5, which means no Solina either. The Solina V is also a very cherished instrument by me (I always loved the sound of String Ensembles). Neither have the Stage V (emulation of the Rhodes). Or the B-3 V (Hammond).

The thing with those though is that you get a lot of their sound from AnalogLab. Also, while $199 isn't bad, it will almost certainly go on sale. So it doesn't really matter if $199 is a good deal when the inevitable $99 will be a better deal.

Not arguing with that either. If and when it goes on sale , it will be an even better bargain. And you get ALL of the current sounds with Analog Lab 3, which is something amazing - and any user that has at least VC4 registered will get AL3 for free, I think.

What we are discussing now is the current price, compared with the prices of what was considered as alternatives (which I think they even aren't). Everything can go on sale, we can even get it for free in a contest. But that doesn't change the real value of things.

I'm amazed when I see people claiming against 50 dollars for a CMI V and a DX7 V, and then go buy a new synth for 150 (launch price - real price will be even higher) - when the same synth, except for one single feature, was being sold at 30 dollars for iOS. But they are not questioning that

Well, but, with Komplete you get a LOT more value than with Arturia. I just don't think that there's any comparison at all there in terms of overall value. The real value of Komplete is about $300, unless you need it today. The real value of an Arturia upgrade is $99, unless you need it today.

Of course iOS apps are worth less, you can't load them in your daw.

I take the original point to some extent. Some things just bring more value to the table than others from some people's POV and it's not always so easy to compare.

[Ingonator]

Yes, but, but, but! Nobody pays $150 for FM8. You buy it with complete and it costs something like $6.

If you compare this to the current full price of V-Collection 6 that includes 21 intruments you have around 19 € per instrument there...

As Prophet V3 includes 3 instruments and Piano V2 multiple piano models too there are actually even more than 21 included.

If like me you still got a license for V-Collection 4 like additionally there is also Spark 2 which is a powerful drum synth plugin.

[ghettosynth]

Yes, but, but, but! Nobody pays $150 for FM8. You buy it with complete and it costs something like $6.

If you compare this to the current full price of V-Collection 6 that includes 21 intruments you have around 19 € per instrument there...

As Prophet V3 includes 3 instruments and Piano V2 multiple piano models too there are actually even more than 21 included.

If like me you still got a license for V-Collection 4 like additionally there is also Spark 2 which is a powerful drum synth plugin.

Not for people upgrading. You get four new instruments from V5 and, whatever it is, 7 or 8 from V4. So those new instruments cost you about $25 each (from V4, twice that from V5), which is almost four times what the products in Komplete cost. Once you start doing the average math, you have to pay attention to those details because the price seems so low, per instrument that it's tempting to put them in the same equivalence class.

[Ingonator]

Yes, but, but, but! Nobody pays $150 for FM8. You buy it with complete and it costs something like $6.

If you compare this to the current full price of V-Collection 6 that includes 21 intruments you have around 19 € per instrument there...

As Prophet V3 includes 3 instruments and Piano V2 multiple piano models too there are actually even more than 21 included.

If like me you still got a license for V-Collection 4 like additionally there is also Spark 2 which is a powerful drum synth plugin.

Not for people upgrading. You get four new instruments from V5 and, whatever it is, 7 or 8 from V4. So those new instruments cost you about $25 each (from V4, twice that from V5), which is almost four times what the products in Komplete cost. Once you start doing the average math, you have to pay attention to those details because the price seems so low, per instrument that it's tempting to put them in the same equivalence class.

Well if we compare Komplete and V-Collection we should compare the full versions, not the upgrade prices and to be even more fair we might habe to use teh full proces, not the sales prices.
We would also have to discuss if we compare against Komplete 11 Standard or Ultimate...

FWIW i had used Komplete for a long time (currently Komplete 10 Standard) and got a NI Komplete Kontrol S61 keyboard as my main controller but In NI Komplete if you take away everything that is based on Kontakt and Reaktor only 3 synths (Massive, FM8, Absynth 5), Battery and some effects plugins are left (which are all nice on their own).
Opposing to the modeled plugins from Arturia all dedicated pianos and organs currently included with Komplete are sample based.
In terms of analog emulations there is also not much except what is available with Reaktor including e.g. Monark.

Around half of the 87 products included in Komplete 11 Ultimate seem to be based on using Kontakt 5 and more than 20 of the included products seem to be effects. That makes around 75% for Kontakt based instruments and efefcts in that package.
The fact that you could craete a huge amount of synths using Reaktor does not matter for me in this comparison. Opposing to the amount of Kontakt 5 based products the synths based on Reaktor (indpendent of the Reaktor factory ensembles) are not too many within the Komplete 11 package.

At the end a comprison of Komplete 11 Ultimate and Arturia V-Collection 6 is quite pointless for me. A comparison would be mostly a modeled Arturia plugin versus a sample based product in Komplete which are two totally different approaches.

Based n how much CPU MOnark already uses for a single voice and quite simple synth engine it is not hard to guess that replicating something like the Arturia Matrix-12 V2 in Reaktor with a similar sound quality as Monark would be close to impossible, especially concerning CPU use, not to mention the tons of features and modulation options included in the Matrix-12.