Shades of Blue Type SoundTrack [Tense]

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So i was working with Construction Kits, and found a really interesting Lead, (the first one you hear besides the pad) and added drums and a second and third lead on top of it.

https://soundcloud.com/djlfd/let-it-be

A few questions if you could, i'm still new and joined recently, would really appreciate feedback as i need to get to a higher level before i start creating more tunes:

Is the concept good?

Do the sounds feel right?

Is my mixing and Mastering Ok?
Aspiring HipHop Producer: https://soundcloud.com/djlfd

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So i was working with Construction Kits
Not a strong start to any post on a composing forum!:0)

It starts very well...interesting, gradual fade in with some ear grabbing rhythms in there...

I'll be honest, after that, it just sounds quite messy with nothing quite fitting together.

There are DEFINITELY some interesting sounding ideas in there, but I think they need some serious reorganizing and reshaping.

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Working with Construction Kits doesn't mean the music made itself... also, it seems fine to me, though you are probably rustic and can't appreciate Urban Music, so i guess it's not for everyone ;).
Aspiring HipHop Producer: https://soundcloud.com/djlfd

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Working with Construction Kits doesn't mean the music made itself
To at least some extent it means exactly that!
it seems fine to me
You specifically asked for some detailed feedback and now you simply reject it...shame, really...and not a good way to improve! My comments were phrased positively with good points raised as well.

I occasionally post a few tracks on here and ask for feedback....Despite over 30 years in the music business, I expect a bit of criticism and I ALWAYS take it on board as I try to improve further.
though you are probably rustic and can't appreciate Urban Music
We all laughed sooooo much at that comment....soooooo defensive and soooo far from the truth it's hilarious! :0)
would really appreciate feedback as i need to get to a higher level before i start creating more tunes:
Really? Or were you just fishing for 100% positive comments?

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Now you're going out of your way to put me down... Working with construction kits is exactly the same as using a synthesizer, or downloading a pack of samples, i didn't specify which construction kits i used, so you can't judge can you? i used the pad and the pluck synth, which are loops, the same as you would find in a downloadable pack from myriad companies, and is no different than using a preset loop from a synth:/.

I did ask for feedback, i only got 1 poster unfortunately, what makes you a good judge of American Television Urban SoundTrack Material, and how did you manage to get that experience? Being from "Not-So-Great Britian", i am wondering lol.? Not that you can't be a good judge taking breaks from Parliament on BBC to actually catch a showing of "Shades of Blue", how would you know what type of SoundTrack would fit into that show, and why won't you answer the 3 questions in a professional manner, rather than spatting on about your preferences?

And i'm glad you had a vain laugh at yourself, because a newcomer in a music production forum comes here looking for honest advice, you start right off with a lie with negativity "Not a strong start to any post on a composing forum!?"... and while it does sound good to me, i am settling in with feedback from multiple sources, most notable, from the Boston Police Department and they all think it's great, but i didn't reject your feedback, you jumped to the conclusion that i did, because text rarely conveys the 'feelings' that go into human communication, and while i can respect your Opinion, i am looking for someone more qualified, no offense. Your feedback is noted, but frankly i don't view you as being in a position to make me change my arrangement simply because you said so, the world doesn't revolve around you, and i'm sure you know that. I have plenty of people saying it's really intensse and the first Police Officer i sent a link to, my old hockey coach, is quoted as saying "it sounds like a pursuit", when i was in WIP of composing, for the first 2:10"...

Music is an art, made for an audience, and while You may think its arrangement is unprofessional or not cohesive, to a layman who simply listens to music and has an appreciation for good music, if they say it's good that's a potential fan... Plus you can't possibly fathom what my intentions were because i left the introduction vague on purpose, so 1 post in a forum full of Professionals is terrible, i was hoping for more feedback that i could weigh against one another. Yet you seem to lack Interwebs knowledge and think you're a special little snowflake i Must Listen to or else i'm defensive and a liar?

Take a good look at yourself m8. You didn't even bother to stick to the questions i asked, there were 3, very specific questions, and you failed... smh.
Aspiring HipHop Producer: https://soundcloud.com/djlfd

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I don't think any response is necessary to that... you say it all really...WOW!

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Yet you respond because you're self-absorbed... Please leave my Topic, Thanks in advance.

Sorry for the hay-day... lol, if anyone wants to be civil, you won't break my heart no matter what you say, it would just be nice to stick to the questions at hand, TY.
Aspiring HipHop Producer: https://soundcloud.com/djlfd

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DJ LFD wrote:Is the concept good?
No! What you feel as "tense" might be your nerves standing on edge from your found loops working at odds with each other, especially in the melody. The rattlesnake does make it a bit tense, though :tu:

Of course, if your overarching conceit was to come to a forum looking for feedback (then ignoring said feedback), from people you would clearly benefit from listening to (Perhaps, check some of ChamMusic's music), closing down the possibility of personal improvement, then I'd say you were successful.

DJ LFD wrote:Do the sounds feel right?
In isolation, they're probably fine. However, they don't really fit together. Such is the norm when throwing random loops together
DJ LFD wrote:Is my mixing and Mastering Ok?
No point commenting on the paint job, when the foundations aren't stable yet :shrug:


Oh, and yes! I've watched both seasons of 'Shades Of Blue'. Lopez is great. Liotta is also good, despite constantly shuffling around like he shat in his trousers

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Ok Trash Post... Thanks for wasting our time... Leave or be Reported son, Thanks. (Generalizations, rude attitude, no point to criticizm other than to make me look bad).

[EDIT] On second thought, i took a gander at your SC, and you're in the business of ST's, i fully admit i'm not in the business of creating SoundTracks, you have to admit i'm breaking the mold on this one, and i'm of the opinion you studied music theory and have a "strong-hold" about composition, and can easily feel confident trashing my brainstorm.

I treat every piece of music i encounter with acceptance, from the sounds i create (eccentric, ikr) to the ones i hear in TV, Movies, and Radio, etc.

While i can handle the disrespect, yes, this is not your " run-of-the-mill" SoundTrack Experience, it is gritty, something i fear you've never faced in your life, some hardship.

In the process of stringing together this experiment, i came to realize two things first: 1: it was only 2 pieces of a much larger puzzle i was "borrowing" from a paid-for sample-pack, that fit together in a way that will lead to my 2nd Epiphany from using these loops: 2: it was creating this vibe that was akin to a lamentation on the Memory of 9/11 (it does sound arabic.)

I have another version not published with an arrangement of Anti-Jihadist Material (Not Propaganda, as the True Meaning of "Jihad" is "Struggle", not "Mass-Murder"). It has the works of Police and other Law Enforcement and Military sound-bytes, and i may release it next year, or if i feel ready for it.

NYC is Home to a plethora of people, if you have ever been, sir. So while your comfy place in Spain may be nice to compose interesting and text-book SoundTracks, i have a different Experience, being from the city where the jets took off on 9/11.

I won't blather anymore about myself, or put you down for not facing hardship (which either way i don't know you at all so i couldn't judge even if i tried), but the piece is meant for United States Television, in New York City, and is of Urban, and (if you choose) Arabic, styling.
Last edited by DJ LFD on Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:13 pm, edited 6 times in total.
Aspiring HipHop Producer: https://soundcloud.com/djlfd

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Ok, let's try again:
DJ LFD wrote:Is the concept good?
I don't think the piece develops tension, which I gather is the intent
DJ LFD wrote:Do the sounds feel right?
The loops seem to be at odds with each other
DJ LFD wrote:Is my mixing and Mastering Ok?
The overal sound is very muffled, and lacks dynamics

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Well, Thank You for the honest effort.

Please refer to my edit above this post for further information.

I can disagree with the first 2 criticisms, simply because of personal taste, but "The loops seem to be at odds with each other" is a bit vague, and i don't know if you mean the styling, the arrangement, or the mixing and levels?

I explained fairly well what i came across while working with this in my edit above, but thinking about it now, it seems to me it would suit a Montage, as i will now reveal, where Harlee is doing her work behind Bozniak's back, and i imagine speeding vehicles with dash-cams to be present, though none of that is necessary, just a matter of personal taste.

The Mastering critique, upon further inspection, seems about right. I am struggling to get the levels right, and that's exactly what i wanted out of posting this track in these forums, honest feedback i can take into account.

Since we are agreeing to get along, could you offer any advice to a basic/intermediate producer using a limited version of FL Studio (Fruity Edition, don't even have Maximus :(), to achieve a better sound from whatever people would like to call this experimental composition that i have grown fond of?

Advice on that would be Greatly Appreciated, and Thanks again, for switching gears ;).
Aspiring HipHop Producer: https://soundcloud.com/djlfd

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Something to remember: Both the OP, and any Respondants might ask: What are the Specs of your System?

This is totally my fault, as i'm suffering from insomnia and no excuses, but I forgot to mention i am using FL Studio 12.5.1.5, Fruity Edition... Gaming PC with fast hardware. Creative Fatal1ty THX TruStudio 7.1 PCI-e SoundCard, and Logitech Z504 5.1 Surround speakers as monitors, though i am only using Front-Right, Front-Left, and Center as monitors... i mix and (try to) master with this setup, and occasionally will turn on THX after i feel comfortable with the levels (Which seem to be really bad for other people's monitoring setups), to brighten and warm the sound.
Aspiring HipHop Producer: https://soundcloud.com/djlfd

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Not to Bump, it's already at the top because it was replied to, and got a lot of attention for my coarse behavior in the topic, but i updated the SoundCloud file, same link so it is in the Original Post.

I'm still working on soaking in the new Critiques, to pry myself away from the fact that the structure and/ or styling may be unsavory, shall we say?

For the Record, i did and did not just slap some loops on my channel rack and expect it to be a tune, however, i did not slap some loops on the channel rack and expect it to be a good tune... the Pad came first, i liked the sound, however the gater at the end of the 8-bar loop irritated me, but not enough to delete it, as i have a fair amount of samples, but none as lush as the sample i got from a company i am not allowed to name. So i kept it.

Then i browsed the Verse Melodies, and the pluck synth caught my attention, sounds a lot like Trap melodies, so i put in the rack and developed a Drum kit with 4 variations, HipHop style, because: Trap! Lol.

so with the intro i decided to arpeggiate the hi-hat to make the rattlesnake sound, and added the Pad soon after the Fade-In, and then the 1st Verse Pluck Synth with the drum patterns to suppliment.

I listened quite a few times, and i got the sense of arabic styling, and i admit, the Lush-Pad combined with the arabic Pluck-synth, made me cry, and i had the idea that it would be 1: Definitely more SoundTrack Style, and immediately placed it with NYC, and "Shades of BLue", but 2: NYC and the sense of a lamentation on the Memory of 9/11, so i took my MIDI Controller Keyboard, dialed in TrackGod VST's SoundBank to a familiar synth, and played the winding synth that comes in directly after the pluck... i fiddled with the arrangement, and then put the Intro at the Chorus Section, where i felt it would continue the aura, and whilst it kept the "samey" feel to it, it also gives a sense (IMHO) of the Situation that would be happening, to be still happening, and made minor changes ot the effect that things are different, of course, because time changes things.

I then linked my 2:10" preview to an old friend in the BPD, and he said to me "it sounds like a pursuit". I soaked that in and realized i could complte a sense of "Awe" with the sounds, to be geared towards a Tribute to Those Who Remember, and decided to keep the urban beat, simply because of NYC is a city. now if i change the HipHop Loop Kit to something else, i agree it would feel different, but my personal taste tells me that 1: i already like it, why not keep it, and 2: i don't see a difference in making a jazz, rock, hiphop, pop, ethnic, or classical style for it other than to cater to other people's expectations; ie, why don't i just create it in a flow i feel most comfortable with, Urban Beats? I believe in creative Commons, and have submitted the .flpwith exported loops to IL's flp-exchange for remixing and/ or recomposition, so it's not that i want the power of having it just my way, it's more of a sentimentality that's keeping me fond of the track as it is.

While you can feel free to disagree and maybe that is why criticizms like "The loops seem to be at odds with each other" are coming my way, i think the whole feel of it, the dual-purpose intention of NYC's history and future, could be upheld and presented in my own creative way by making this Track Acessible to basically anyone, not excluding any Race, Color, or Creed, simply an urban city beat with the obvious merging of arabic styling.

I'll post more, i apologize to anyone rubbed the wrong way about posting in or reading this topic. I should have been more transparent, but i let naivety get in the way and that made mye shy about my presentation.

I apologize to ChamMusic for being triggered, what ticked me off the most, and immediately was the feeling of being treated with disdain when i saw my first reply as : composing forum, which is simply not true at all, in a new forum where i both want to be cool and for everything to go Ok, and to be strong enough to handle any crituques that would push away my confidence in the piece, to the point where it no longer has value to me. the Interwebs are full of all kinds, and my biggest mistakes are generally assuming the worst in people...(I know i'm not too proud of the way i handled myself initially, but given that i serverely need sleep and miraculously the thoughts are coming to me finally,, i can live with a little attitude).
Aspiring HipHop Producer: https://soundcloud.com/djlfd

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DJ LFD wrote:On second thought, i took a gander at your SC, and you're in the business of ST's, i fully admit i'm not in the business of creating SoundTracks, you have to admit i'm breaking the mold on this one, and i'm of the opinion you studied music theory and have a "strong-hold" about composition, and can easily feel confident trashing my brainstorm.
While I do have intentions to try my hand at some soundtrack work, none of my previous work was written for that purpose, albeit much of the style could be appropriate in some cases.

As for music theory, and study of composition: Not a note :shrug: I did manage to pass grade 2 classical guitar at the age of 12, but that was well over 40 years ago, and I think I forgot how to read music, soon after. It's all about keeping an open mound, and listening to a ton of music from any genre (without exception). Add a huge dollop of being able to take critique, especially your own, and cultivating as much humility as you can stomach.

That's why, at nearly 46-years old, having played music in some form or another for my whole life, I am proud to start learning how to write music. Maybe you are also interested:

https://www.skillshare.com/search?query ... ength=long

Once you sign up, they email you, offering the first two months for free. Or at least they did, last week :tu:




DJ LFD wrote:While i can handle the disrespect, yes, this is not your " run-of-the-mill" SoundTrack Experience, it is gritty, something i fear you've never faced in your life, some hardship.
I only mocked you slightly because of how you reacted to ChamMusic's critique, which I happen to agree with, entirely. And no! He didn't disrespect you, either :shrug: I'm guessing now, that you only asked a few questions because you believed everything else was solid. But both he and myself found problems with the foundation/core of the piece, which you clearly perceived as disrespect, when it was not the intention (The intention is very much to help those who honestly wish to improve, to improve. Maybe that isn't you.

I've snipped much of the rest of this stuff from my reply, but I feel it worthwhile to mention that it is wholly irrelevant whether or not I have faced hardship in my life, with respect to making what I feel are constructive criticisms of you music. Suffice to say, I am certainly 'qualified' enough to handle the grit in this piece. (again, no shade)
DJ LFD wrote:I can disagree with the first 2 criticisms, simply because of personal taste, but "The loops seem to be at odds with each other" is a bit vague, and i don't know if you mean the styling, the arrangement, or the mixing and levels?
My criticism is not based on taste. While I am someone who really believes in ditching rules, certain conventions, patterns, and rules can't be escaped.

Tension (and release), is a dynamic, push/pull movement/progression. There are various ways to use it, but it normally hinges on the element of surprise (not necessarily shock) e.g using chord substitution to shift gears when the audience is expecting a common pattern.

I found this video to demonstrate the idea of simple tension.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHyQdGh5CTM

Of course, in your case, you really are looking at more dramatic tension. But this isn't just about what notes you use, or the grittiness of the sounds, but how you reveal your (musical) scene to the audience.

The issue for you is you started with the music, and then tried to imagine where it would fit, be it a 9/11 tribute or cop-show montage. Forgetting the fact that the same piece of music is unlikely to suit both of these, it is really putting the cart before the horse.

If you were commissioned to write a soundtrack, you would normally be expected to write to some footage, or at least a treatment for a scene. So start from that way around. If the scene is supposed to be tense, what does that look like to you. Y'see, imo, your piece has no tension because you show all your cards pretty much from the start. There is no build, no creep, no motif - recurring themes/devices can help create tension (Think 'Jaws' for how an ominous little, two-note motif brings huge amounts of tension; More-so than when the whole orchestra crashes in)

Dissonance can also be used to create tension, and you do have dissonance. Unfortunately, it comes by way of the lead just playing off-key. These types of clashes can work as passing, 'grace' notes, or if you just do it once as a jarring effect (Tension from the unexpected). When repeated in the way you have it, it just sounds off.

And this is why we both commented that things started to get messy. Loops that are repeatedly playing off-key to the backing track are not gritty, but just unpleasant. It is, of course, not entirely your fault. The problem comes from trying to stitch together fragments of music not designed to work together. Were you to write the melodies yourself, you would be unlikely to, make the same note choices, unless, like I said, you were using them occasionally to create tension :tu:

DJ LFD wrote:where Harlee is doing her work behind Bozniak's back, and i imagine speeding vehicles with dash-cams to be present, though none of that is necessary, just a matter of personal taste.
Perhaps it would be better if it was behind Wozniak's back :wink:

See, this is what I'm trying to say: How can this one piece of music be suitable for your Arabian-influenced 9/11 tribute, while also being the right kind of music for a police car-chase. Again, this is not a criticism, but you are trying to retro-fit an identity onto an already completed piece. Perhaps, next time, start with the idea in mind, and go from there :tu:
DJ LFD wrote:could you offer any advice to a basic/intermediate producer using a limited version of FL Studio (Fruity Edition, don't even have Maximus :(), to achieve a better sound from whatever people would like to call this experimental composition that i have grown fond of?
While I don't use FL Studio, the advice you need is pretty general production mixing advice. Spend some time on other parts of this forum, asking questions (an being open to the responses :tu:)

There is also a ton of stuff on Youtube. Also Macprovideo[dot] com, and groove3[dot] com are great choices if you want to follow complete courses

Anyway, I'm gonna dive out of this. Wish you all the best :tu:

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P.S It's hard putting yourself out there for the world to see. It might seem the right thing to put up your defences, and shield yourself from the opposing views of others. But you'll never learn by living in that bubble.

Open up to the positive learning effects of the critique, and just have a bit more fun with it. It's just f**king music

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