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jancivil
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14725 posts since 20 Oct, 2007, from No Location

Postby jancivil; Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:42 am Re: Steinberg & Cubase, the master of dodgy business practices

Functional wrote: of course, instead of actually rethinking automation and introducing automation clips, we just have now bezier curves (which do something for sure, but clips > lanes).

The problem I can identify with your whole thinking may locate here. One supposes they don't think that's really so crucial it had to happen in this .5 upgrade, ie., they don't think quite as you do so they're cheating everybody. I don't want those things. For ME it's bloat, all these FRs from people who don't do things like I do at all suddenly implemented. But what happens, I suppose, is they make decisions based in the sheer volume of FRs, because it's a business.

For all this, I don't know what's wrong with using the range tool and whether you're in bars and beats or other linear timelines in the Sample Editor or Parts Editor use the Fade tools which_provide_presets_saving. Frankly, I don't suppose the weight of Feature Requests exactly agrees with your opinion. Clips is greater than lanes... for you, OK. You Rule Ok. The Clips People Rule OK. Why isn't Cubase also Ableton Live and FLS all wrapped in one?

And the giving this 'half-assed' new feature is useful to them. But it's all too much now, that they charge at the .5 point of development; after years and years of this practice? This means 'dodgy business practices'. Alrighty then.


I find the fact of not actually fixing particular bugs and moving on to actual new numbered versions "dodgy" but your case is a bit overstated IMO.
SLiC
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2573 posts since 2 Dec, 2004, from North Wales

Postby SLiC; Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:05 am Re: Steinberg & Cubase, the master of dodgy business practices

Features drip feed down from Nuendo....if they gave us all of the features at the same time Cubase would be Nuendo and the entry cost would I assume be the same as Nuendo, so you can have all of the 'missing' features now- just buy Nuendo for £1400!

Personally I just pickled up Cubase 9.5 in the cross grade sale for about £200 so I feel the I have had an utter bargain from Steinberg, no complaints here!
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Terrafractyl
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327 posts since 15 Nov, 2005, from Melbourne Australia

Postby Terrafractyl; Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:42 pm Re: Steinberg & Cubase, the master of dodgy business practices

'That just like, your opinion. Man'

C9 and 9.5 are better than all previous versions from my perspective. I almost jumped to bitwig last year but these updates pulled me back from the brink.
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JJ_Jettflow
KVRian
 
729 posts since 23 Jan, 2011

Postby JJ_Jettflow; Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:26 pm Re: Steinberg & Cubase, the master of dodgy business practices

Functional wrote:
Well, workflow-wise there are lots of differences especially if you use lot of keybindings like I do, basically, my workflow is just flying around in Cubase and a bystander would have hard times following that. Achieving that in Reaper would have taken looong time.




I've been using Cubase since it was called Pro Twenty-Tour and ran on my Atari. Yet I still find I can work faster in Reaper.

Reaper has keybindings. Just press "?"
vintagevibe
KVRist
 
153 posts since 3 May, 2007

Postby vintagevibe; Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:37 pm Re: Steinberg & Cubase, the master of dodgy business practices

Like many such posts, this entire rant is premised on something that is assumed and not known. Reminds me of a Bill Maher segment "I don't know it for a fact but I just know its true..."
Functional
KVRist
 
347 posts since 26 Oct, 2011

Postby Functional; Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:21 pm Re: Steinberg & Cubase, the master of dodgy business practices

jancivil wrote:One supposes they don't think that's really so crucial it had to happen in this .5 upgrade, ie., they don't think quite as you do so they're cheating everybody. I don't want those things.


My point isn't here whenever they're crucial to me or not, my point is that the way they're implemented — it's bad. Bezier curves is a step up (a feature I've requested personally for quite some time, you might even remember that one thread), but this dop feature is just silly for not having presets, given how obvious it is that it should have been there.

jancivil wrote:Clips is greater than lanes... for you


Get the context (in regards to that "FL/Ableton" remark), I'm talking about automation in particular. I love working with audio directly on linear view, where I can efficiently do whatever I want very quickly (by having bouncing, rendering, the important dop plugins all on hotkeys. I can easily turn anything into 4 bars and duplicate it over and over, then cut it up, apply more dop or whatever. Cubase is perfect for that sort of stuff.

Speaking of which, you made me try the range tool on those [automation lanes] and actually I have to take my words back there. Didn't think of that.

jancivil wrote:And the giving this 'half-assed' new feature is useful to them. But it's all too much now, that they charge at the .5 point of development; after years and years of this practice? This means 'dodgy business practices'. Alrighty then.


I mean I've stated pretty obviously my problem — this model doesn't encourage them to make Cubase feel like a finished product in the first place when you're missing out on a whole bunch of features that can help bigtime with workflow and they're, instead, introducing new plugins (or revisions of their old plugins, i.e. Retrologue 2). Like it goes beyond me how they found VCA faders & mixer undo of less priority than introducing new UI for their plugins.

JJ_Jettflow wrote:I've been using Cubase since it was called Pro Twenty-Tour and ran on my Atari. Yet I still find I can work faster in Reaper.


Problem is with the time it takes to learn Reaper. I know how great it is, but making that switch isn't going to work out.
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JJ_Jettflow
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729 posts since 23 Jan, 2011

Postby JJ_Jettflow; Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:04 am Re: Steinberg & Cubase, the master of dodgy business practices

Functional wrote:Problem is with the time it takes to learn Reaper. I know how great it is, but making that switch isn't going to work out.


I understand but you need to ask yourself "do I want to continue using Cubase and be upset about their business model and lack of what I believe to be proper upgrades or do I want to lose some time and learn another DAW with a business model I do like" whether it is Reaper or not.


By continuing to use Cubase you are in fact supporting them and the way they do things.
Functional
KVRist
 
347 posts since 26 Oct, 2011

Postby Functional; Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:15 am Re: Steinberg & Cubase, the master of dodgy business practices

JJ_Jettflow wrote:By continuing to use Cubase you are in fact supporting them and the way they do things.


Well, if I would upgrade, then yes. That's the train I'm going to leave. Maybe I'll switch in future, but the transition is just too long to start it anywhere nearby.
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soulone82
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828 posts since 16 Aug, 2010, from almost everywhere...

Postby soulone82; Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:21 am Re: Steinberg & Cubase, the master of dodgy business practices

murnau wrote:Left that ship at 6.5 & never looked back. :)


:tu:
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Googly Smythe
KVRAF
 
2110 posts since 11 May, 2011, from The marxist paradise that is the UK

Postby Googly Smythe; Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:42 am Re: Steinberg & Cubase, the master of dodgy business practices

Steinberg, masters of the shady business practice. Unlike the shining beacon that is this company...
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/201 ... -spycraft/
LeVzi
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1857 posts since 7 Jul, 2008, from Cardiff, Wales, UK

Postby LeVzi; Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:42 am Re: Steinberg & Cubase, the master of dodgy business practices

I didn't check, but was the .5 update paid or free ?

TBH I am getting tired of Steinberg piling on updates and new versions, and ramping up the upgrade price every time.

It's gone from £142 to £257 for me to upgrade now from 6.5 , seems that V7,8 then 9 came about in lightening time.

I am 100% in agreement that if you use Cubase and love it, you will be trapped. Other DAW's do not and cannot play the same, and you just get so addicted to using Cubase, you find it almost impossible to move. What I don't like is that Steinberg know this, and punish you for not upgrading everytime they drop one on us.

And they are very tight with upgrade offers, not like NI or other companies. This festive countdown is shite atm.
Forward ever, Backward never
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SJ_Digriz
KVRAF
 
5307 posts since 4 Jul, 2001, from either Northern Idaho or Southern Canada, still trying to figure out which

Postby SJ_Digriz; Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:02 am Re: Steinberg & Cubase, the master of dodgy business practices

man, sometimes I think I live in a parallel universe where people know they are going to pay for things they buy. And, if they don't want it or can't afford it, they don't buy it.
The trick is to realize there is no spoon. That's when you'll know you have been truly swindled.
mitchiemasha
KVRist
 
114 posts since 14 Aug, 2011, from teesside

Postby mitchiemasha; Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:27 am Re: Steinberg & Cubase, the master of dodgy business practices

Functional wrote: Like it goes beyond me how they found VCA faders & mixer undo of less priority than introducing new UI for their plugins.


They will likely have a graphics team who are responsible for that. Different people with different skill sets. Not so much about priority between the 2 but the people budget to a task working through them, constantly in a job, budgeted for, on hand. If it is the same people, working on a different field for a period, breaks up the monotony.
Romantique Tp
KVRist
 
266 posts since 2 Nov, 2015

Postby Romantique Tp; Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:33 am Re: Steinberg & Cubase, the master of dodgy business practices

Functional wrote:this model doesn't encourage them to make Cubase feel like a finished product in the first place when you're missing out on a whole bunch of features that can help bigtime with workflow and they're, instead, introducing new plugins (or revisions of their old plugins, i.e. Retrologue 2). Like it goes beyond me how they found VCA faders & mixer undo of less priority than introducing new UI for their plugins.


Cubase isn't developed by a single person, not even a single team. The people who work on Steinberg's plugins don't even work in the same building as the Cubase and Nuendo developers. What happens to the plugins has absolutely no relevance to the rest of the DAW.

This whole thread wouldn't even exist if you stopped to consider how software is made.


LeVzi wrote:snip


I don't understand how it's even possible for people to use Cubase for years and not realize that Steinberg has been releasing upgrades yearly.

When they weren't, it used to cost 200 bucks for a single upgrade. The upgrades now come once a year instead of every 2 years or so, and are cheaper.

If you upgrade your 6.5 to 9.5 you'll be paying LESS than if you had bought each upgrade individually. That's 6 years of upgrades.
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