Latest Builds: Zebra 2.8 *beta*

[karrikuh]

Just a thought: Doesn't the Windows API (and possibly other OSs, too) provide the possibility to notify a process about changes within a specific directory which the preset browser could use to only update its database when necessary?

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I downloaded every patch in the Patch Library, and ended up with around 10k presets in the end. Now, opening the 2.8 browser takes a few seconds to refresh but nothing unreasonable. Note: I had no extra skins, and don't use Windows Defender. This is with Windows 10 Home x64 with updates turned on and Bitdefender as my AV software. Presets are on a SATA drive, OS on a SSD. Not sure why results seem all over the place with this but my experience has been good. Never had a prior version of Zebra either.

It takes "just" a few seconds for me, too. I would be totally fine with this if it applied e.g. only to the first time I open the UI of a new Zebra instance. In practice however, I constantly switch between Zebra UI and the UI of various post-processing effects. I think you can imagine having this kind of delay on every switch quickly turns into a serious work-flow killer.

Maybe also worth noting: for me, the delay happens not only when entering the preset browser, but when opening the UI in general.

That's not what I'm seeing here. Using Cubase 9.5.10...

1. Add Zebra2 to a new track

Result: a few seconds for GUI to load. I want to say about 8 seconds.

2. With GUI loaded, click on the Presets tab. Note: I'm down to 8,457 presets after deleting many I didn't like.

Result: maybe a 20-second wait while database gets updated.

3. Close GUI
4. Reopen GUI

Result: pretty much instant. So the wait is not while loading the GUI. Not here anyway. Note: I only have the skins it ships with loaded.

5. Remove the Zebra2 track/instrument entirely
6. Add a new instance of Zebra2

Result: new instance loads pretty much instantly. No noticeable wait time at all.

7. Click on Preset tab

Result: no wait time now either. The database did not get updated again.

Like I said, this all seems completely reasonable to me and sounds very different to what you and some others are reporting. I'm not sure if the U-he team is aware of why results may vary so much, so I'm posting here with the details in case it may help.

[Theturbinman]

It takes "just" a few seconds for me, too. I would be totally fine with this if it applied e.g. only to the first time I open the UI of a new Zebra instance. In practice however, I constantly switch between Zebra UI and the UI of various post-processing effects. I think you can imagine having this kind of delay on every switch quickly turns into a serious work-flow killer.

Maybe also worth noting: for me, the delay happens not only when entering the preset browser, but when opening the UI in general.

Same exact thing is happening for me. For example: On fl studio when i open a new vst and zebra is already open in my daw , when the gui window disappears and i press on the "ZEBRA" box to open up the gui back up it takes about 9 to 12 seconds which really doesnt even happen with big vsts like Omnisphere so there has to be a workaround. But back to when FIRST opening zebra i am getting the "preset database updating" screen for at least 4 to 5 minutes. Not sure why .

[drzhnn]

It indeed looks like an antivirus software issue. Realtime protection slows things down.

In my case its definitely Windows Defender's fault. Looks like it keeps some kind of cache with already scanned paths and resets it once in a while. So the first time (after reboot) I open up Zebra, the preset browser refresh takes about 10 seconds. After that, if I open a new Zebra instance or try to refresh preset list manually, it updates almost instantly. But if I manually turn Windows Defender's real-time protection off and on again, and then refresh preset list, it freezes for several seconds. It's fully reproducible here.

I want to stress again that at least in my case, Windows 10 security center is completely disabled (the service) and yet, the start-up time is huge (see my previous post)

Are you sure you stopped all Windows Defender related services?



Because stopping just the "Windows Defender Security Center Service" doesn't stop Defender's real-time protection.

[zvenx]

you are reporting elements of what i am reporting, just not as bad as I am.

For example, on my mac with the same presets, its around 3 seconds to fully load gui and update database, I think this is similar to what u-he are trying to aim for on pc....
currently the pc takes much longer for me, and like you the second time I try to use it it does everything under 3 seconds I think.
But your 20 seconds is much longer than the expected behaviour.

rsp

I downloaded every patch in the Patch Library, and ended up with around 10k presets in the end. Now, opening the 2.8 browser takes a few seconds to refresh but nothing unreasonable. Note: I had no extra skins, and don't use Windows Defender. This is with Windows 10 Home x64 with updates turned on and Bitdefender as my AV software. Presets are on a SATA drive, OS on a SSD. Not sure why results seem all over the place with this but my experience has been good. Never had a prior version of Zebra either.

It takes "just" a few seconds for me, too. I would be totally fine with this if it applied e.g. only to the first time I open the UI of a new Zebra instance. In practice however, I constantly switch between Zebra UI and the UI of various post-processing effects. I think you can imagine having this kind of delay on every switch quickly turns into a serious work-flow killer.

Maybe also worth noting: for me, the delay happens not only when entering the preset browser, but when opening the UI in general.

That's not what I'm seeing here. Using Cubase 9.5.10...

1. Add Zebra2 to a new track

Result: a few seconds for GUI to load. I want to say about 8 seconds.

2. With GUI loaded, click on the Presets tab. Note: I'm down to 8,457 presets after deleting many I didn't like.

Result: maybe a 20-second wait while database gets updated.

3. Close GUI
4. Reopen GUI

Result: pretty much instant. So the wait is not while loading the GUI. Not here anyway. Note: I only have the skins it ships with loaded.

5. Remove the Zebra2 track/instrument entirely
6. Add a new instance of Zebra2

Result: new instance loads pretty much instantly. No noticeable wait time at all.

7. Click on Preset tab

Result: no wait time now either. The database did not get updated again.

Like I said, this all seems completely reasonable to me and sounds very different to what you and some others are reporting. I'm not sure if the U-he team is aware of why results may vary so much, so I'm posting here with the details in case it may help.

[zvenx]

Very interesting.
Let me go check if all my Defender services are indeed stopped.

thanks
rsp

It indeed looks like an antivirus software issue. Realtime protection slows things down.

In my case its definitely Windows Defender's fault. Looks like it keeps some kind of cache with already scanned paths and resets it once in a while. So the first time (after reboot) I open up Zebra, the preset browser refresh takes about 10 seconds. After that, if I open a new Zebra instance or try to refresh preset list manually, it updates almost instantly. But if I manually turn Windows Defender's real-time protection off and on again, and then refresh preset list, it freezes for several seconds. It's fully reproducible here.

I want to stress again that at least in my case, Windows 10 security center is completely disabled (the service) and yet, the start-up time is huge (see my previous post)

Are you sure you stopped all Windows Defender related services?



Because stopping just the "Windows Defender Security Center Service" doesn't stop Defender's real-time protection.

[drzhnn]

Btw, to check if Windows Defender real-time protection is still running in the background you can run this command in Powershell window:

Code: Select all

Get-MpPreference

This will list all Windows Defender parameters. The line you need to check is "DisableRealtimeMonitoring : True". If real time protection is still enabled this line will say "False". Looks like this is the only parameter that causes long refresh times in preset browser.

[zvenx]

Alas that didn't work for me. It said' 'True 'but still long update time. (it did save off a few seconds though)

There were indeed some windows services still running but even though I am a local admin, when I tried to stop them it said permission denied.


Rsp

Btw, to check if Windows Defender real-time protection is still running in the background you can run this command in Powershell window:

Code: Select all

Get-MpPreference

This will list all Windows Defender parameters. The line you need to check is "DisableRealtimeMonitoring : True". If real time protection is still enabled this line will say "False". Looks like this is the only parameter that causes long refresh times in preset browser.

[drzhnn]

Alas that didn't work for me. It said true but still long update time.

Oh, that's unexpected! Do you have any other antivirus-like software running?

There were indeed some windows services still running but even though I am a local admin, when I tried to stop them it said permission denied.

I wouldn't recommend stopping system services manually, unless you know exactly what you are doing. Things can get messy very quickly. Normally, you can stop all Defender activity via the Windows Defender Security Center window. Unfortunately, the settings will be reset to default after next reboot

[zvenx]

Alas that didn't work for me. It said true but still long update time.

Oh, that's unexpected! Do you have any other antivirus-like software running?

There were indeed some windows services still running but even though I am a local admin, when I tried to stop them it said permission denied.

I wouldn't recommend stopping system services manually, unless you know exactly what you are doing. Things can get messy very quickly. Normally, you can stop all Defender activity via the Windows Defender Security Center window. Unfortunately, the settings will be reset to default after next reboot

hi no other antivirus running.
yeah I know about Defender restarting etc.
not to worry, u-he is working on it and I am giving them as much input as I can.
thanks again,
rsp

[Theturbinman]

Alas that didn't work for me. It said true but still long update time.

Oh, that's unexpected! Do you have any other antivirus-like software running?

There were indeed some windows services still running but even though I am a local admin, when I tried to stop them it said permission denied.

I wouldn't recommend stopping system services manually, unless you know exactly what you are doing. Things can get messy very quickly. Normally, you can stop all Defender activity via the Windows Defender Security Center window. Unfortunately, the settings will be reset to default after next reboot

hi other antivirus running.
yeah I know about Defender restarting etc.
not to worry, u-he is working on it and I am giving them as much input as I can.
thanks again,
rsp

Thank you for your input on the same thing i am experiencing my friend ! For some odd reason i cant stop Windows defender from my Task manager. It says its running but when i open up the defender itself in windows it is TURNED OFF. But really hope u-he can find a good work around

[zvenx]

You are welcome.
Indeed, we all do.
rsp

[Urs]

We found a possible improvement. Can't really test it here, but it would be great if we could seed it to those who have issues.

How about anyone who has the issue send an email to support at u-he.com with subject "Z2 Browser Seed" and rough problem outline in the message text (host, how long exactly it took, how many themes, how many presets installed, Defender culprit y/n)? - We can then send out a seed and/or a profiling version if it's promising. Might not happen in a day, but would be great to be able to have people test this specifically.

Thanks,

- U

[Theturbinman]

We found a possible improvement. Can't really test it here, but it would be great if we could seed it to those who have issues.

How about anyone who has the issue send an email to support at u-he.com with subject "Z2 Browser Seed" and rough problem outline in the message text (host, how long exactly it took, how many themes, how many presets installed, Defender culprit y/n)? - We can then send out a seed and/or a profiling version if it's promising. Might not happen in a day, but would be great to be able to have people test this specifically.

Thanks,

- U

Awesome! Cant wait to find out the workaround! I just sent a email in now friend with all details! Thanks!

[vvilms]

Any word on HZ 2.8?