KVR Audio

ramseysounds · Post by **ramseysounds** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:05 pm

So for years I've been using L2 at the end of my stereo chain, just to compete volume wise. I'm not talking mastering, we all know that's a completely different subject.
I've just got an email saying PSP Xenon is on sale for $29! Virtually 85% off list.
What are peoples thoughts?

Burillo · Post by **Burillo** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:03 pm

with broadcasting standards, "competing volume-wise" will no longer be a thing, so i don't think it really matters much any more.

jbarish · Post by **jbarish** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:35 pm

No one Limiter nails all possible genres. Choosing the right one for the material is key. Options are good and if Xenon is good enough for industry legend Bob Olhsson to always compare with and pick as the right one 30% of the time, I'd say it's a no brainer at $29. You should demo to see. I'd be surprised if you didn't end up choosing Xenon over L2 at least half the time.

do_androids_dream · Post by **do_androids_dream** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:56 pm

Burillo wrote:with broadcasting standards, "competing volume-wise" will no longer be a thing, so i don't think it really matters much any more.

Agreed - can't wait for this to happen in a general sense as a mastering engineer. One of the reasons is because focus will come away from the limiter and back to everything else - in other words people might finally realise that LOUDNESS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MASTER LIMITER! Yep, all caps but I feel it's necessary lol.

meloco_go · Post by **meloco_go** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:32 pm

Both are a bit long in the tooth, but PSP is still totally fine and has a lot of options.

Hermetech Mastering · Post by **Hermetech Mastering** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:58 am

do_androids_dream wrote:LOUDNESS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MASTER LIMITER!

Has a LOT to do with it in my studio. I wouldn't be able to get the levels my hip-hop clients want, in such a transparent way, in any other way. Of course compression, EQ and clipping can all add to the measured and perceived loudness, but I'm nearly always getting more than 50% of it from the limiter.

Mainly Elephant, Limiter6 and Limitless here, but I've been meaning to try Xenon again recently as people have been talking about it a lot, and I have a license, it just hasn't been installed for a few years.

plexuss · Post by **plexuss** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:33 pm

I like Xenon. It is one of the earlier true peak limiters that handles ISPs very well (with a bit of ceiling). For this, I use it to "normalize" in the mastering stage. I am not a loudness junkie at all and master to -16 LUFS, give or take, keeping PLR in the double digits (for the most part). I like some of features of Xenon for managing transient response. It has a bit of colour to it which is quite musical - it imparts a fullness to the sound. I've never tried the Waves limiters for mastering so I can't comment on L2.

For $30 Xenon is a no-brainer even if you have other TP limiters, just because it has a nice sound to it and the transient control helps in cases where other TP limiters arent giving you what you want.

I just pulled it out to get some specific metrics for you: with the gain cranked with over 16 dB GR it produces no ISPs with a ceiling of only 0.1dB!

MogwaiBoy · Post by **MogwaiBoy** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:17 pm

Had a quick go on Xenon last night and I am impressed. Setting up matched bypass volume I have to say even with a bunch of peak reduction happening it, for lack of a better word, enhanced the sound - particularly in the low-end punch/"glue". Usually you expect some form of signal degredation and always trying to balance loudness with artifacts. So it seems this thing works with transients very well. Low CPU too even with OS on.

Haven't compared directly to Elevate or Limitless, mind...

ramseysounds · Post by **ramseysounds** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:19 pm

plexuss wrote:I For $30 Xenon is a no-brainer even if you have other TP limiters

That's how I'm thinking

Kalamata Kid · Post by **Kalamata Kid** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:37 pm

ramseysounds wrote:
plexuss wrote:I For $30 Xenon is a no-brainer even if you have other TP limiters
That's how I'm thinking

Who'has the best price?

DrReacto · Post by **DrReacto** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:42 am

Xenon is a great limiter for any price. Very low CPU. PSP also gives discounts to owner of existing plugins.

waltercruz · Post by **waltercruz** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:28 am

Kalamata Kid wrote:
ramseysounds wrote:
plexuss wrote:I For $30 Xenon is a no-brainer even if you have other TP limiters
That's how I'm thinking
Who'has the best price?

first, if you have some plugins from psp, check your userarea. and then, jrrshop.

Kalamata Kid · Post by **Kalamata Kid** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:38 am

waltercruz wrote:
Kalamata Kid wrote:
ramseysounds wrote:
plexuss wrote:I For $30 Xenon is a no-brainer even if you have other TP limiters
That's how I'm thinking
Who'has the best price?
first, if you have some plugins from psp, check your userarea. and then, jrrshop.

For me Xenon is "not a must have" but a "would be nice to have" so even though the $29 seems fare it is not there yet for me to pull the trigger.

I own a few other PSP plugins so I got a minor discount from them but Eric at JRR does a bit better and would prefer him in any case as he contributes some of his time helping out here at KVR.

With all the money I have saved on these sales I have become poorer.
Well, but richer plugin-wise. But then again you cannot take plugins to the bank.

do_androids_dream · Post by **do_androids_dream** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:11 pm

Hermetech Mastering wrote:
do_androids_dream wrote:LOUDNESS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MASTER LIMITER!
Has a LOT to do with it in my studio. I wouldn't be able to get the levels my hip-hop clients want, in such a transparent way, in any other way. Of course compression, EQ and clipping can all add to the measured and perceived loudness, but I'm nearly always getting more than 50% of it from the limiter.

Mainly Elephant, Limiter6 and Limitless here, but I've been meaning to try Xenon again recently as people have been talking about it a lot, and I have a license, it just hasn't been installed for a few years.

To clarify.. I mean that there seems to be a very common attitude that one should not worry about being 'loud' until that final limiter. If your goal is a very loud, dense, minimally dynamic piece of music then you need to consider this right from the beginning of the composition process - sound choices, mixing techniques, frequency areas that need to be more prominent than others etc. Obviously I agree that you will be using the limiter to achieve levels that are competitive but it's a very bad idea to rely on that solely if, from the outset, the goal is to make a track that will be 'loud'.

I personally rely far more on a hard/softclipper to achieve loud masters. Depends on the type of material of course - and you always get those baffling tracks that respond really badly to clipping (when other similar tracks respond very well).

Hermetech Mastering · Post by **Hermetech Mastering** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:25 pm

Got ya! All mixes have their loudness potential beyond which the degradation becomes way too obvious.

PSP Xenon vs Waves L2