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Favorite Synth to Program

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VELLTONE MUSIC
KVRist
 
222 posts since 18 Sep, 2017, from Bulgaria

Postby VELLTONE MUSIC; Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:04 pm Re: Favorite Synth to Program

Sylenth1 all the way - but main sound need appropriate fx on it to shine,music is layering :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxRMN1s ... e=youtu.be
BONES
GRRRRRRR!
 
6725 posts since 13 Jun, 2001, from Somewhere else, on principle

Postby BONES; Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:15 am Re: Favorite Synth to Program

fluffy_little_something wrote:Well, while I also don't like excess and bloat, the Legend would be too limited for me, frankly, it lacks important controls I need.

Controls that are so important, you can't be bothered naming them.
It also has LP, BP, and HP filters in both 12 and 24 db variants. So, I don't get your point...

My point was that you were wrong in saying The Legend only had one filter type. I really don't understand why you started mentioning The Legend at all but I figure if you are going to, your should at least get your facts straight (or have them straightened).
Exactaly, whatever works for me. Subtractive works for me, and I don't need anyhting fancy such as FM, wavetable etc.

And, as I explained, it works for me, too, so I don't understand why you keep bringing it up.
Nobody dictates what I use, I limit myself because I want to. I don't want to sound modern, I hate modern music.

What does that even mean? You don't like good, clean production? Or maybe you don't like deliberately lo-fi stuff? Is it modern jazz you don't like? R&B Mk II? Current hippity hop?
No, I am defending Sylenth1 against your accusations because your points of criticism make little sense (GUI, parameter ranges etc.).

These aren't "accusations", these are cold, hard, verifiable facts.
... not to mention your confession that you have not tried it in 10 years.

At least I've tried it. You've gone off about The Legend when its clear you haven't even made the effort to find out what features it has. BTW, if there was even a scintilla of evidence to suggest anything in Sylenth 1 had changed in that decade, I might bother trying it again. But there isn't, so I haven't.
There are definitely things to improve on S1, but oddly you didn't even mention them (reverb quality, dedicated PWM etc.).

Who needs "reverb quality" in a synth when you can add whatever reverb you want to it in your host?
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Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
 
5700 posts since 12 May, 2008

Postby Echoes in the Attic; Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:08 am Re: Favorite Synth to Program

I would agree that Sylenth1 is great to program and surprisingly easy to get a wide variety of good sounds for the architecture, however I do get annoyed by the two page layout. I find a synth this straight forward very frustrating to not see the two filters and osc sections at the same time. The global filter affecting the two independent filters is an excellent feature though, equally loved in other synths like Omnisphere.

I do prefer synths where I see most controls at once that really affect the sound. U-he synths are good examples. Lately I've been mostly into the old vintage emulations as they are so fast, like Repro, Tal Juno, the Roland Cloud SH-101 and Jupiter.

Aside from the vintage oldies, I find granular synthesis extremely fun, especially the simple ones like Granulate in Kontakt or Granite (which I don't actually use but is a good example). I tend to use Omnisphere's granular a lot.

Omnisphere is another one that I would enjoy programming more, well I do, but the amount of tabs is somewhat maddening. I will say though that synths that have creative ways of coming up with something unexpected can be fun to program, like Omni's locking of certain parameters when preset switching, or Absynths mutate. Those things can make up for an otherwise complex UI.
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chk071
KVRAF
 
14693 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:41 am Re: Favorite Synth to Program

fluffy_little_something wrote:
chk071 wrote:That's beside the point though, because it never was meant to be a uncompromising analog emulation, but rather a synth with a high voice count, and a good sound quality at a very reasonable CPU hit. Apples and oranges, kind of.


:roll:

"Until now only very few software synthesizers have been able to stand up to the sound quality standards of hardware synths. Sylenth1 is one that does."

"On top of that there are 2 state of the art, pure analog sounding filter sections. Each of these consists of 4 filter stages with nonlinear saturation incorporated, in order to emulate the warmth and drive of a real analog filter. The resonance control can be turned up to a level way beyond self-oscillation and combined with the drive control this makes it possible to let the filters SCREAM! Where a lot of digital filters sound like they're made out of cheap plastic, these filters sound rock-solid, warm and raw."

https://www.lennardigital.com/sylenth1/

I wonder how much of that is marketing bla, because, i read in 1 or 2 interviews that the main point was low CPU usage at a good sound quality, and high voice count. Anyway, compare it to the more current generation of analog emulation, and it will become obvious that it can't hold a candle to those, in terms of detail, and analog filter emulation. That's not a thing for me though. Most analog emulations don't have unison on oscillator level, nor will you be able to use a high voice count, without blowing up your CPU. Horses for courses.
chk071
KVRAF
 
14693 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:44 am Re: Favorite Synth to Program

pdxindy wrote:
sqigls wrote:
pdxindy wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote:Subtractive works for me, and I don't need anyhting fancy such as FM, wavetable etc. There was a time when subtractive analog hardware was all people used because it was all there was.


And Sylenth cannot begin to replicate subtractive analog hardware... much of which had one or more of such features as analog FM, filter FM, ring mod, hard and soft sync, cross modulation, PWM, etc.

Sylenth is a bland lifeless digital synth compared to even simple analog hardware.

Sylenth1 is rad. it stands up to a lot of hardware actually, and shits all over a lot of software, still. but i don't think it was ever really meant to be an analog clone.

No synth really has life.
the life comes from whoever programs it.
go listen to Hollo's preset bank, if you that's lifeless to you, well, you must have your own personal dictionary definition.


Sylenth certainly doesn't stand up to analog hardware... not even in the same galaxy. Just cause it doesn't come close to analog hardware, doesn't mean it cannot make some lovely sounds. But put it side by side with a Pro One or a Dominion and tweak some knobs... it is indeed bland and lifeless by comparison (not to mention feature deficient).

Maybe. I wouldn't say it is bland and lifeless though. You like to use Zebra, right? Well, it's sort of the same kind of synth as Sylenth. Surely not the most up-to-date, emulation of whatever, using the latest in ZDF filter design, unless you use the HZ version. I don't think you'd actually describe Zebra as "bland and lifeless". And Sylenth1 is much more "alive" than other comparable soft synths i know (i won't name names now).

Somehow appears to me as if you had an axe to grind with Sylenth1, probably because it's so popular. ;)
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Vectorman
KVRian
 
1243 posts since 6 May, 2005, from Michigan, USA

Postby Vectorman; Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:10 am Re: Favorite Synth to Program

Not really any one synth in particular. Most often, the sounds I program myself are based on wavetables. So a lot of the patches I've done over the years were programmed in Massive, Zebra, PPG 3.V and, more recently, the Virus. (A little bit in Dune 2 also.)

I hadn't used PPG 3.V in years but came back to it in the last few months. It really stands out in that it has the transposition artifacts of an '80s hybrid synth, setting it apart from almost all other wavetable scanning softsynths. Its modulation facilities are relatively primitive, but you can get past that to some degree by assigning wavetable index to the mod wheel or aftertouch and then either "playing" the wave scans or drawing automation to control them more precisely.
maserman
KVRer
 
5 posts since 19 Jul, 2014

Postby maserman; Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:14 am Re: Favorite Synth to Program

Kawai K5000 because it is different to all the analog nonsense!
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fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
 
10680 posts since 5 Jun, 2012, from Portugal

Postby fluffy_little_something; Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:31 am Re: Favorite Synth to Program

BONES wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote:Well, while I also don't like excess and bloat, the Legend would be too limited for me, frankly, it lacks important controls I need.

Controls that are so important, you can't be bothered naming them.
It also has LP, BP, and HP filters in both 12 and 24 db variants. So, I don't get your point...

My point was that you were wrong in saying The Legend only had one filter type. I really don't understand why you started mentioning The Legend at all but I figure if you are going to, your should at least get your facts straight (or have them straightened).
Exactaly, whatever works for me. Subtractive works for me, and I don't need anyhting fancy such as FM, wavetable etc.

And, as I explained, it works for me, too, so I don't understand why you keep bringing it up.
Nobody dictates what I use, I limit myself because I want to. I don't want to sound modern, I hate modern music.

What does that even mean? You don't like good, clean production? Or maybe you don't like deliberately lo-fi stuff? Is it modern jazz you don't like? R&B Mk II? Current hippity hop?
No, I am defending Sylenth1 against your accusations because your points of criticism make little sense (GUI, parameter ranges etc.).

These aren't "accusations", these are cold, hard, verifiable facts.
... not to mention your confession that you have not tried it in 10 years.

At least I've tried it. You've gone off about The Legend when its clear you haven't even made the effort to find out what features it has. BTW, if there was even a scintilla of evidence to suggest anything in Sylenth 1 had changed in that decade, I might bother trying it again. But there isn't, so I haven't.
There are definitely things to improve on S1, but oddly you didn't even mention them (reverb quality, dedicated PWM etc.).

Who needs "reverb quality" in a synth when you can add whatever reverb you want to it in your host?


There was no need to name them, but if you want to know:
retrigger, invert and phase control for instance because they allow for creating new waveforms that go way beyond the half dozen or so standard waveforms included.

I didn't say Legend had only one filter type.
And it was you that brought in Legend 6 pages ago, which by the way I HAVE demoed a lot.

Modern music sounds too clean and boring to me, too slick and perfect. There are exceptions of course, but by and large I don't like modern music.

Cold, verifiable facts? Prove there is anything wrong with Sylenth1's parameter ranges!

Well, when a synth has built-in effects, why not use them? It is easier to save effects along with the synth patch than to add external effects. Also with regards to sound sets when effects are an important aspect of patches.
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fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
 
10680 posts since 5 Jun, 2012, from Portugal

Postby fluffy_little_something; Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:43 am Re: Favorite Synth to Program

Echoes in the Attic wrote:however I do get annoyed by the two page layout. I find a synth this straight forward very frustrating to not see the two filters and osc sections at the same time. The global filter affecting the two independent filters is an excellent feature though, equally loved in other synths like Omnisphere.

I do prefer synths where I see most controls at once that really affect the sound. U-he synths are good examples. Lately I've been mostly into the old vintage emulations as they are so fast, like Repro, Tal Juno, the Roland Cloud SH-101 and Jupiter.



Not sure why the two layers are a problem for anyone.
If they were both on one GUI, it would have to be much larger, so people would have to reduce its size, which would reduce the great ergonomics of that GUI.
Or, LD would have to reduce the number of controls, i.e. parameters and Sylenth1 would end up like Hive with its more limited sub-osc solution.
Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
 
5700 posts since 12 May, 2008

Postby Echoes in the Attic; Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:52 pm Re: Favorite Synth to Program

Or the controls could be smaller like hive, which probably has a simple amount of controls but are all visible. Though I do kind of like the controls size in sylenth1.

Perhaps I’d just rather something else be on another tab. Like having the modulation in the middle bit as a page like effects. And then the middle bit could be a bit bigger too. Then you can still adjust modulation at the same time as the sources, but you would have access to both sets of filters and oscs. Ya just annoying making adjustments to the two filters and how they affect the global filter when having to flip back and forth. I do it constantly. I don’t need to edit modulation assignments at the same time as access effects.
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pdxindy
KVRAF
 
12979 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:19 pm Re: Favorite Synth to Program

chk071 wrote:
pdxindy wrote:Sylenth certainly doesn't stand up to analog hardware... not even in the same galaxy. Just cause it doesn't come close to analog hardware, doesn't mean it cannot make some lovely sounds. But put it side by side with a Pro One or a Dominion and tweak some knobs... it is indeed bland and lifeless by comparison (not to mention feature deficient).

Maybe. I wouldn't say it is bland and lifeless though. You like to use Zebra, right? Well, it's sort of the same kind of synth as Sylenth. Surely not the most up-to-date, emulation of whatever, using the latest in ZDF filter design, unless you use the HZ version. I don't think you'd actually describe Zebra as "bland and lifeless". And Sylenth1 is much more "alive" than other comparable soft synths i know (i won't name names now).

Somehow appears to me as if you had an axe to grind with Sylenth1, probably because it's so popular. ;)


You are free to like what you like... but how about we stick to talking about synths and not get into personal attacks...

Multiple times Sylenth was presented as 'analog' sounding. It isn't and that is what I was responding to. It's main feature is the supersaw sound (which I like and was implemented well) which is a digital thing, not analog. And my comment about bland and lifeless, is in a comparison to an analog synth. That does not mean it cannot make pleasing sounds.

Take Zebra, put it side by side with a Dominion 1 and use 2-3 Osc's and a filter and tweak some parameters of both and it will also sound bland and lifeless by comparison. It does however, have a wide range of tools which provides a huge sonic range so it has other strengths. That's why I like it and am looking forward to Zebra 3 because it will incorporate the many improvements in synth technology from recent years into the Zebra concept.

There are dozens of synths today that sound more dynamic than Sylenth. The low end on Sylenth is weak. The resonance has a somewhat unpleasant tone when pushed. And it is missing the various features common to analog synths that create a range of tonal characteristics. A bit of filter FM can add such a lovely crunchy edge. It sounds like what it is which is a decade old low cpu softsynth that cannot be pushed far at all.
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pdxindy
KVRAF
 
12979 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:27 pm Re: Favorite Synth to Program

Echoes in the Attic wrote:Or the controls could be smaller like hive, which probably has a simple amount of controls but are all visible. Though I do kind of like the controls size in sylenth1.

Perhaps I’d just rather something else be on another tab. Like having the modulation in the middle bit as a page like effects. And then the middle bit could be a bit bigger too. Then you can still adjust modulation at the same time as the sources, but you would have access to both sets of filters and oscs. Ya just annoying making adjustments to the two filters and how they affect the global filter when having to flip back and forth. I do it constantly. I don’t need to edit modulation assignments at the same time as access effects.


It would be doable to put both layers on one page... there is enough space on the GUI...
chk071
KVRAF
 
14693 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:38 pm Re: Favorite Synth to Program

pdxindy wrote:
chk071 wrote:
pdxindy wrote:Sylenth certainly doesn't stand up to analog hardware... not even in the same galaxy. Just cause it doesn't come close to analog hardware, doesn't mean it cannot make some lovely sounds. But put it side by side with a Pro One or a Dominion and tweak some knobs... it is indeed bland and lifeless by comparison (not to mention feature deficient).

Maybe. I wouldn't say it is bland and lifeless though. You like to use Zebra, right? Well, it's sort of the same kind of synth as Sylenth. Surely not the most up-to-date, emulation of whatever, using the latest in ZDF filter design, unless you use the HZ version. I don't think you'd actually describe Zebra as "bland and lifeless". And Sylenth1 is much more "alive" than other comparable soft synths i know (i won't name names now).

Somehow appears to me as if you had an axe to grind with Sylenth1, probably because it's so popular. ;)


You are free to like what you like... but how about we stick to talking about synths and not get into personal attacks...

Multiple times Sylenth was presented as 'analog' sounding. It isn't and that is what I was responding to. It's main feature is the supersaw sound (which I like and was implemented well) which is a digital thing, not analog. And my comment about bland and lifeless, is in a comparison to an analog synth. That does not mean it cannot make pleasing sounds.

Take Zebra, put it side by side with a Dominion 1 and use 2-3 Osc's and a filter and tweak some parameters of both and it will also sound bland and lifeless by comparison. It does however, have a wide range of tools which provides a huge sonic range so it has other strengths. That's why I like it and am looking forward to Zebra 3 because it will incorporate the many improvements in synth technology from recent years into the Zebra concept.

There are dozens of synths today that sound more dynamic than Sylenth. The low end on Sylenth is weak. The resonance has a somewhat unpleasant tone when pushed. And it is missing the various features common to analog synths that create a range of tonal characteristics. A bit of filter FM can add such a lovely crunchy edge. It sounds like what it is which is a decade old low cpu softsynth that cannot be pushed far at all.

Opinions shmopinions. :P

Well, actually, i partly agree. For the sounds Sylenth1 is capable of, i vastly prefer Spire. I also think that Sylenth1 is a bit dated now, and Lennard should really consider Sylenth2. Nonetheless, it surely wasn't as popular as it was in the last decade for nothing. The unison is one of the most pleasing of any of similarly featured synths, and, there's also no phasing issues which are present in some other synths. It also can get very punchy, also unlike many other soft synths.
Halonmusic
KVRian
 
801 posts since 13 Nov, 2015, from Norway

Postby Halonmusic; Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:30 am Re: Favorite Synth to Program

pdxindy wrote:
chk071 wrote:
pdxindy wrote:Sylenth certainly doesn't stand up to analog hardware... not even in the same galaxy. Just cause it doesn't come close to analog hardware, doesn't mean it cannot make some lovely sounds. But put it side by side with a Pro One or a Dominion and tweak some knobs... it is indeed bland and lifeless by comparison (not to mention feature deficient).

Maybe. I wouldn't say it is bland and lifeless though. You like to use Zebra, right? Well, it's sort of the same kind of synth as Sylenth. Surely not the most up-to-date, emulation of whatever, using the latest in ZDF filter design, unless you use the HZ version. I don't think you'd actually describe Zebra as "bland and lifeless". And Sylenth1 is much more "alive" than other comparable soft synths i know (i won't name names now).

Somehow appears to me as if you had an axe to grind with Sylenth1, probably because it's so popular. ;)


You are free to like what you like... but how about we stick to talking about synths and not get into personal attacks...

Multiple times Sylenth was presented as 'analog' sounding. It isn't and that is what I was responding to. It's main feature is the supersaw sound (which I like and was implemented well) which is a digital thing, not analog. And my comment about bland and lifeless, is in a comparison to an analog synth. That does not mean it cannot make pleasing sounds.

Take Zebra, put it side by side with a Dominion 1 and use 2-3 Osc's and a filter and tweak some parameters of both and it will also sound bland and lifeless by comparison. It does however, have a wide range of tools which provides a huge sonic range so it has other strengths. That's why I like it and am looking forward to Zebra 3 because it will incorporate the many improvements in synth technology from recent years into the Zebra concept.

There are dozens of synths today that sound more dynamic than Sylenth. The low end on Sylenth is weak. The resonance has a somewhat unpleasant tone when pushed. And it is missing the various features common to analog synths that create a range of tonal characteristics. A bit of filter FM can add such a lovely crunchy edge. It sounds like what it is which is a decade old low cpu softsynth that cannot be pushed far at all.


Agreed. What it also should have is hard sync and pwm. Can't believe he hasn't implemented those features yet. Also i dislike the effects. The reverb sounds metallic.
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fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
 
10680 posts since 5 Jun, 2012, from Portugal

Postby fluffy_little_something; Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:24 am Re: Favorite Synth to Program

Yes, the reverb sounds pretty bad unless completely damped :? The delay also seems colored at times...
The rest of the effects seem ok, though.

What I like most and the main reason why I have not switched to a more modern synth are the responsive and dedicated controls on a pretty perfect GUI. On other synths, osc phase and such parameters are sometimes parameters hidden in the mod matrix or even missing altogether :? On Repro for instance it is impossible to achieve a consistent punch. So not very useful for drum sounds...
I like mod matrices, but key parameters should not be in there.
Hive for instance does have PWM, but only as a hidden parameter.

A synth I really liked using was the U-NO-LX, it feels very responsive and the GUI is also beautiful and appealing. Pity it is so basic.
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