Touch screen profile - bugs & feature requests

[bolba]

Hey, got my hands on Surface Book 2 and trying Bitwig on it.
Touch interface is nice, but not ideal. I don't understand why touch circle requires second touch instead of directional movement activation (like it works with track Solo'ing for example).

In any case, can someone help me to figure out how can I change vertical scale of track using touch gestures?

[MoodyB]

I've only tried the 2.2 demo, but I couldn't find a way to resize tracks using touch only.

A workaround is to enable the virtual trackpad in windows 10 ( right click on taskbar ), and then click the pad icon in the lower right corner next to the virtual keyboard.

That'll bring up a mouse cursor you can control with the pad, which will then let you resize them.

[Echoes in the Attic]

This is the problem. The touch functionality isn’t complete, so you would have to go back and forth with a mouse or trackpad. But usually if your using touch mode that might not be so easy, so it sort of ends up being useless.

But to make matters worse, you can’t seem to turn off the touch functionality so it gets in the way using a pen and you get things like the multi finger dial, a function that is impossible to use with a pen. So not only is the touch mode not quite usable, but it’s presence makes the pen not quite usable either, which should behave like a mouse. So frustrating.

[antic604]

But to make matters worse, you can’t seem to turn off the touch functionality so it gets in the way using a pen and you get things like the multi finger dial, a function that is impossible to use with a pen. So not only is the touch mode not quite usable, but it’s presence makes the pen not quite usable either, which should behave like a mouse. So frustrating.

This particular thing is how touch is implemented in Windows, I'm not sure Bitwig can overwrite this behaviour.

[antic604]

I've only tried the 2.2 demo, but I couldn't find a way to resize tracks using touch only

The question should be - why? I noticed (even in a keyboard & mouse interface) Bitwig tries to encourage a workflow, where you edit the details of the clips in editors down below - or on the separate page - leaving the clip view for arranging & overview of the track. The fact that the editors work in continuous way - you can move between clips, copy things from one to the next, overlay multiple tracks, etc. - is really great and I'm trying to work like this. For the longest time I was frustrated (and still am) that you can't have some tracks minimised (vertically) and others stretched out, but since I adopted that new "paradigm" I'm trying to go with the flow.

Still, I agree this should be an option and should be available also in touch.

[Echoes in the Attic]

But to make matters worse, you can’t seem to turn off the touch functionality so it gets in the way using a pen and you get things like the multi finger dial, a function that is impossible to use with a pen. So not only is the touch mode not quite usable, but it’s presence makes the pen not quite usable either, which should behave like a mouse. So frustrating.

This particular thing is how touch is implemented in Windows, I'm not sure Bitwig can overwrite this behaviour.

I'm not sure about that, plenty of things respond different to touch than to pen.

Also, all bitwig needs to do is provide a setting to disable the touch functionality so that the pen would operate like the mouse. It's impossible to use properly, you can't do simple thing like click a c and have the editor go to the full length of the clip (like a double click would do on the clip), or able to zoom the midi editor. You have to use two fingers when using the pen, it's just awkward. Or being able to length a clip. Just can't do it with a pen at all, except the little menu in the inspector which is hard to do accurately. The point of the pen is to act like a mouse, it has precision. Bitwig's touch stuff ruins it.

Even if the touch stuff just worked in the tablet profile, that would be fine. but I use the single window (small) setting, not the tablet setting, so why do i get this touch behavior when I don't want it. Just makes it impossible.

[MoodyB]

I've only tried the 2.2 demo, but I couldn't find a way to resize tracks using touch only

The question should be - why?

I was only trying it to see if I could find a solution for bolba

I like Bitwigs' workflow. I have since I started using it with v1.2 iirc.
One of the many reasons I switched to it from Sonar(r.i.p), along with having much better touch support.

For the longest time I was frustrated (and still am) that you can't have some tracks minimised (vertically) and others stretched out, but since I adopted that new "paradigm" I'm trying to go with the flow.

The lack of track sizing got me at first when I switched, but you do get used to it & don't miss it after a while.

Still, I agree this should be an option and should be available also in touch.

Yes it should really be accessible to touch users without workarounds.

[amadeusp]

I started to use Bitwig on a Surface Pro 6 and have some issues with it as well. The overall concept is very tempting and I think it is a lot of fun at times too. But there seems to be quite a lot missing as well. I agree with most of the OP. Personally, I just hope that the team will be able to further invest in touch and improve on some of the shortcomings we all have to deal with in its current implementation. Until that happens I plan to use the Surface as a mobile sketching station and continue to finish my projects on a traditional desktop system with mouse, keyboard and controllers sttached.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Well I'm glad that the option has been added to ignore touch gestures with pen input. Unfortunately there is a delay in the input when using this setting, making it impossible to actually do anything that requires precision like grabbing an automation node or selecting the end of a note to drag. The delay means that the click gets registered too late and you're no longer where you where when you clicked. This doesn't happen with the setting off (or with other applications). Can't get ahold of support to get a comment on it or find out if they are aware.

[antic604]

For me using touch is completely a no go. First, there's sometimes some strange offset with regards to where I "click" an where a clip is inserted. 2nd, doing any kind of automation editing simply doesn't work for me - sometimes (not always, which I don't understand) I can draw it freely, but there's completely no precission to it.

Actually, I was quite surprised how well touch works in Live now. Sure, there's no fancy ring menu and many elements are way too small, but even automation can be easily and reliably edited.

I hope Bitwig devs come back to the drawing board and fix it. I think it wasn't touched (no pun intended) since v1.2 or v1.3...

[Echoes in the Attic]

For me using touch is completely a no go. First, there's sometimes some strange offset with regards to where I "click" an where a clip is inserted. 2nd, doing any kind of automation editing simply doesn't work for me - sometimes (not always, which I don't understand) I can draw it freely, but there's completely no precission to it.

Actually, I was quite surprised how well touch works in Live now. Sure, there's no fancy ring menu and many elements are way too small, but even automation can be easily and reliably edited.

I hope Bitwig devs come back to the drawing board and fix it. I think it wasn't touched (no pun intended) since v1.2 or v1.3...

Yes unfortunately bitwigs attempt at making it touch friendly introduced some problems that make it rather difficult. Because I like to use the surface pen, I e been pretty frustrated because it works better in programs that have nothing at all set up for touch or pen. However if they could fix the issue I mentioned above then it could be better. Also if they completed the touch functionality to allow you to do all the functions then it would be useful. Somethings are just impossible still.

[antic604]

For me using touch is completely a no go. First, there's sometimes some strange offset with regards to where I "click" an where a clip is inserted. 2nd, doing any kind of automation editing simply doesn't work for me - sometimes (not always, which I don't understand) I can draw it freely, but there's completely no precission to it.

Actually, I was quite surprised how well touch works in Live now. Sure, there's no fancy ring menu and many elements are way too small, but even automation can be easily and reliably edited.

I hope Bitwig devs come back to the drawing board and fix it. I think it wasn't touched (no pun intended) since v1.2 or v1.3...

Yes unfortunately bitwigs attempt at making it touch friendly introduced some problems that make it rather difficult. Because I like to use the surface pen, I e been pretty frustrated because it works better in programs that have nothing at all set up for touch or pen. However if they could fix the issue I mentioned above then it could be better. Also if they completed the touch functionality to allow you to do all the functions then it would be useful. Somethings are just impossible still.

In my case - as a SP4 user too - I'd prefer to ditch the combined touch+pen functionality, because when I'm on a bus or out in general I don't want to fiddle with the pen - I need to be able to do everything with my finger(s). And I can in Live, but can't with Bitwig which was supposed to be superior for touch. Also, I think the touch screen profile is just badly layout (it was better before with menu on the side), so I use normal layout with a bit of zoom in...