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Galbanum wrote:
SJ_Digriz wrote: The main thing we are pummeling them for right now is DOP presets, which would make KScope even more attractive in this setup. By the way, i have done a bit of testing with DOP and K and it seemed to work fine. I didn't check, but I'm assuming K would see it as offline rendering. That would be the one thing I can think of that should happen.
"DOP presets"? Is it not like freezing where the preset state is saved with the host project, so that it can be changed later in the project if needed? that would quite great for KS, as you could semi-easily do chord progressions etc by changing tuning on different events, and each event is auto-rendered, but the preset/state info used to create it is automatically saved in the cubase session file. this would indeed be quite great for KS. Is this not how it works already? (i've been deep in something else, so I have not looked yet).
If I'm following ... yes. It's basically an event offline processor that stores the plugins that were used to mangle the audio. It assumes existing audio by the way. Presets would be chains plus settings. So right now, if you go to offline process an audio event, you have to start from scratch. Then if you want to move down two audio events and use those same settings? NOPE, start over.
If you have to ask, you can't afford the answer

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It can't just be a sliced event by the way. The DOP is tied non-destructively to the entire audio event. So if you cut up a single audio file into pieces, you'd need to convert those to real copies to have a different DOP set tied to each segment (at least I'm pretty sure that's how it works). Then as you click the clip, the specific DOP editor content will change to that specific edit. However, although it is saved with the project, there is no way to save a chain or specific preset/configuration to be re-used EVEN IN THE SAME PROJECT.
If you have to ask, you can't afford the answer

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Two alternating pairs of Kaleidoscope (texture + drone, using external noise sources):

https://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/ ... -patchpool

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I would like to ask for your advice for a project of mine (it's a piece for trombone and electronics based on the subject of leaves).

I have a sound of rain falling on tree leaves and I want to give it a strong resonance based on the notes of a chord. This chord, starting from the central C, is C,Eb,A,D,F,Ab.

This is the original sound without any resonance, but with a good amount of Breeze 2 reverb and some iZotope Mobius Filter:
https://soundcloud.com/giovanni-grossko ... es/s-aNyW1

This is the same sound, but with a strong resonance on the notes of that chord. The resonance has been obtained with a third party resonator, not Kaleidoscope, and I am very happy with the result, it's very good for the situation I want to create (Breeze 2 reverb and Mobius Filter are used also here in exactly the same way as before – after the resonator):
https://soundcloud.com/giovanni-grossko ... es/s-7ukNT

I have tried hard to create exactly the same timbre by using Kaleidoscope (which I really love and I am using very much for many other sounds in this project), but, for this particular sound, I failed. I tried to produce a tuning file on the frequencies of these notes and their harmonics, then I used it with string resonators on Kaleidoscope, but the result was too different and not usable for my purpose.

My simple question: can anybody please give me any advice about how to use Kaleidoscope in order to give this sound exactly the same kind of resonance that I managed to obtain with the other third party resonator? I would really like to obtain the same timbre (not just the notes with a random tone color, but really a result as close as possible to the one I have obtained with the other product).
I'm sure that such a powerful tool as Kaleidoscope is perfectly capable to produce this result, but I simply don't know how to do it. Using Kaleidoscope instead of the other product would allow for a much greater flexibility (much more control on many parameters, the possibility to use pictures to control the resonators, etc…).
Any help, please? Thank you! :wink:

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To get the same tuning (just to review, and to inform others), I assume your notes are ascending in that order, and I assume you are using equal temperament? So then you just start with the lowest note, call this "0 steps" and the count the number of semitone steps from this point to the other notes and use this formula:

ratio(n) = 2^(n/12) = pow(2, n/12)

The root note has 0 steps. The counting, Db, D, Eb, is 1, 2, 3, so Eb, is 3 steps etc.

plugging into the formula above:

C = 2^( 0/12) = 1.0000000000000
Eb = 2^( 3/12) = 1.1892071150027
A = 2^( 9/12) = 1.6817928305074
D = 2^(14/12) = 2.2449240966188
F = 2^(17/12) = 2.6696797083401
Ab = 2^(20/12) = 3.1748021039364

You would then create this scale:
! XComposerChord.txt
!
(Author: XComposer, 2018)
6
!
1.0000000000000
1.1892071150027
1.6817928305074
2.2449240966188
2.6696797083401
3.1748021039364
Then load this as the tuning in KS, set reference note to C.

...I'll try the resonator setting next...

can you make the dry pre-resonator sound downloadable?

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Thank you, Andrew. Yes, this time it's with equal temperament and the notes are ascending in that order.
Yes, so I see that my tuning file was properly made.

By the way, do I really have to add also the harmonics of those notes in the tuning file (1.0000000000000 x 2, 1.1892071150027 x 2, 1.6817928305074 x 2… then x 3, x 4, and so on…)? Or will the harmonics be produced in KS even if they are not in the tuning file?

I think the real and tricky problems for me come with the resonator settings and all the primary and secondary settings regarding Feedback, Damp and Soft…


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XComposer wrote:Thank you, Andrew. Yes, this time it's with equal temperament and the notes are ascending in that order.
Yes, so I see that my tuning file was properly made.

By the way, do I really have to add also the harmonics of those notes in the tuning file (1.0000000000000 x 2, 1.1892071150027 x 2, 1.6817928305074 x 2… then x 3, x 4, and so on…)? Or will the harmonics be produced in KS even if they are not in the tuning file?

I think the real and tricky problems for me come with the resonator settings and all the primary and secondary settings regarding Feedback, Damp and Soft…
The sound example you gave sounds very much like typical "String" resonators. So you should probably use the "String I" resonator choice in KS.

String resonators already contain "built-in" harmonics. So there is generally no need to add them to the tuning file.

Spring (sine) resonators do NOT contain any harmonics. They produce only one freq (or band) at the given freq defined by the tuning ratio and reference freq. If you want to add harmonics, there is a very simple button "partials" in the tuning area of the submenu bar. There is also "duplicates". Partials can do what you describe above already. It will increase the number of Defined Lines, and multiply each copy by harmonic multiples (integers, 1, 2, 3, 4....) So you don't have to create a bunch of variations of the scales with different number of harmonics.

In the two examples I gave, I use your tuning with the String I resonator. I use 4 duplicates of the tuning. These are randomly detuned slightly to get a thicker sound.

In the 01 example, I use simply your 6-note tuning with 4 detuned copies of each.

in the 02 example, I turned on "Repeat Octaves". This will duplicate the tuning many times filling the entire canvas with octave transpositions of the tuning. (Some will get disabled bc they will quickly, become higher than 20hHz.)

You can then play with the ref octave, the Feedback settings, and Damp settings.

This should get you quite close to the example you gave.


OK, back to Breeze 2 stuff for me. :D Hope it helps. :tu:

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That was excellent, I didn't quite get how the partials worked with the various resonators and tuning files from a clinical standpoint. That helps a ton.
If you have to ask, you can't afford the answer

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Here's a quick pad/drone from that experiment with your tonality:

https://soundcloud.com/2caudio/xcompose ... eep-breeze

Kaleidoscope texture into Breeze 2, into sweeping filter, into another Breeze 2.

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or another spooky fun KS + Breeze 2 combo, this one using spring resonators, and some kind of ostinato phrase created by the image:

https://soundcloud.com/2caudio/nianders-dream-wet


(although admittedly, i did mix my sci-fi refs in that one. KS preset is called "millions of decaliters" and Breeze 2 preset is called "nianders-dream"... :dog: can those universes co-exist? bonus points if you know what I am talking about. :wink: )

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Andrew Souter wrote:Here's a quick pad/drone from that experiment with your tonality:
https://soundcloud.com/2caudio/xcompose ... eep-breeze
Kaleidoscope texture into Breeze 2, into sweeping filter, into another Breeze 2.
Nice! (And Andrew Souter experimenting with a chord of mine, what an honour!)

I see that there are endless possibilities…

Thank you very, very much for all your help.
As for re-creating exactly the same timbre as in my original example, I have not succeeded yet: I manage to obtain very nice sounds, but not exactly that one.
It seems to me that the sound of the original example must be a sort of mixture between the sound of a spring resonator (a little… "closed", like the sound of a tube, so to speak) and the sound of a string resonator (high harmonics are present). Besides, high and low frequencies are prominent, at the same time. I tried by mixing two instances of KS, one with a spring and one with a string in series and I came closer, but not enough yet. Perhaps I should try them in parallel, or I should try to use a spring resonator, but with the harmonics included in the tuning file. I will make these attempts in the next days.

(P.S.: All the chords in this piece, including the one we are talking about here, may seem unusual also because their intervals are always derived from the measures of the distances between the veins on many leaves that I and my wife portrayed in our photos for this purpose – that one is from a maple leaf! I'm also using our images of leaves in KS for this project, by the way.)

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XComposer wrote: Nice! (And Andrew Souter experimenting with a chord of mine, what an honour!)
nah, i'm nothing special. I'm just a dude who spends way too much time on the computer. :wink:
XComposer wrote: Thank you very, very much for all your help.
As for re-creating exactly the same timbre as in my original example, I have not succeeded yet:
What is the other resonator coming from?

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It's called xResonance, a free plug-in for Mac only:

http://www.musicunfolding.com/xresonance.html

used with a dedicated preset of mine (basically with very high values for the "Coupling" parameter and also for "Sustain", with rather high "Level" values and compensating for the problem of the too high gain by lowering very much the levels in the EQ section of the plug-in, especially in the middle frequencies).
(A trick if you try it: you can also enter the note names instead of the frequencies.)

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The link to download the dry original sound (rain on leaves) is this one:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1j6j94x6ayru8 ... s.wav?dl=0

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