how can we even be sure which one is ´in charge´?Neon Breath wrote:Wow. By reading wagtunes posts and replies about how he doesn’t like people, their opinions, he doesn’t care and how we are all hypocrites to his eyes, I understand better now why his best friend is a puppet...
Me too ... I record my own samples, and have never used a virtual orchestra. The last time I needed a cello for a track I asked a friend to play his for me.vurt wrote:im not a hypocrite , dont use sampled orchestra :p
Your answer gives a mental picture of a concert hall packed out with classical music buffs listening to amplified synthetic music blaring out of speakers. Each telling the other it is indistinguishable from the real thing. Followed by thunderous applause.wagtunes wrote:
"Vocal software is morally wrong" (as they head to their DAW to bring up their 70 piece orchestra composition that is virtually indistinguishable from the real thing)
I'm guessing the one who's impaled on the other's forearm is not in charge.vurt wrote:how can we even be sure which one is ´in charge´?Neon Breath wrote:Wow. By reading wagtunes posts and replies about how he doesn’t like people, their opinions, he doesn’t care and how we are all hypocrites to his eyes, I understand better now why his best friend is a puppet...
you clearly didnt grow up watching the same creepy shit i did.el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:I'm guessing the one who's impaled on the other's forearm is not in charge.vurt wrote:how can we even be sure which one is ´in charge´?Neon Breath wrote:Wow. By reading wagtunes posts and replies about how he doesn’t like people, their opinions, he doesn’t care and how we are all hypocrites to his eyes, I understand better now why his best friend is a puppet...
Y'know, that's, like, totally indistinguishable from the real thingthecontrolcentre wrote:
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:I'm guessing the one who's impaled on the other's forearm is not in charge.vurt wrote:how can we even be sure which one is ´in charge´?Neon Breath wrote:Wow. By reading wagtunes posts and replies about how he doesn’t like people, their opinions, he doesn’t care and how we are all hypocrites to his eyes, I understand better now why his best friend is a puppet...
i think its cute you think $1000 is megabucks for this level of tech.wagtunes wrote:Thank you. Somebody interested in having a rational, civil discussion. I agree. Copying an actual artist could be a real problem. I don't deny that. But certainly nothing is stopping us from creating a physical model of the human voice with enough parameters where the user could make any kind of voice he could possibly conceive of. So maybe he won't ever be able to copy Elton John's vocal chords exactly, but he could come up with a physical model, provided how skillful he was with the software, that was close.Dullee wrote:Not interested in copying living or dead pop/rock star voices myself, but sure as hell lots of people would interested in a realistic, highly dynamic vocal engine, that gives you speech and singing voices of all races, covers all music genres brilliantly, including opera, you name it.
Easier said than done, it's a crazy amount of work, totally nuts thing to think of, seemingly unrealistic job to pull off, and I'd say such software would cost 1000+++. Like many plus. Dynamics of human voice would be the toughest part, I reckon. That in conjunction with certain performance technicalities and nuances involved with each music style. It's really insane to think about.
I assume Spectrasonics would be after such thing, if this only was possible. Eric Persing would not let go of such opportunity, he knows very well he'd be crazy rich by now if he's made one.
Perhaps not possible for now, but I don't see why the future of technological singularity and AI replacing human on so many levels wouldn't bring such thing. It's perfectly logical, considering the path we're walking ourselves into, as a humanity. Sometimes this path scares me, to be honest, like really f**king scares me, like we all get redundant one day and hasta la vista baby, and perhaps we will get completely redundant, but there's no way of stopping it, unless certain cartoonish world leaders want to play a nuke game and put us all back to Stone Age. well, we might end up there anyway. we've chosen to replace so many things, automate, emulate, virtualize everything, in the end we will emulate ourselves, not only emulate, but enhance too.
Like Wag here, I think we just can't let it f**king be and accept a human error in ourselves. We're so scared of our f**k-ups, so embarrassed of our failures, we want a better, ideal version of ourselves. And we will get what we want. Not exactly what we want, but by that time it will be too late to figure out what went wrong.
It seems Kubrick and Cameron were really onto something with HAL and Skynet. Well, it was Kubrick's HAL originally, Skynet is an afterthought and it's a sort of exaggeration of HAL.
In regard to copying music celebrities' voices - it's not realistic. Those mega star lawyers and recording companies' lawyers will sue the crap out of you, if you put, say, Elton John in a song he doesn't have anything to do with, doesn't want anything to do with, and doesn't get any revenue from. Whoever comes up with such software, they simply would not let him be, he won't survive. A f**king Eric Persing goes mental with threats and shit on anybody who wants to approach D focking 50. Now imagine all these stars and their management and labels and lawyers. Forget it. Developer won't survive another day, literally.
It's a serious ethical question, it's a question of trademark of artist's originality and legacy, the voice of every singer is a property that sells, so it's many things for lawyers to get a hold of.
It could only work if the developer would pay some really indecent amount of cash to either artists themselves (if they'd be alive and willing to sell their voice and their job, latter highly unlikely) or to inheritors of artists legacy and copyright. And while I don't see active stars selling their voices and their bread and butter, some of the inheritors of them dead stars could easily jump on an easy money bandwagon. But again, developer would need to shell out some really crazy figures for this to happen. That crazy even 1000+++ for a license would not cover the costs and makes the whole idea pointless.
On another note, I know there's nothing holy in this world when a dollar sign is in play, but I wouldn't want any schmoe to have Elvis, Sinatra and Pavarotti under his fingertips. Seriously. I mean, if I'd be a platinum selling, world famous star, a serious pro, working on my game all my life, sacrificing so many things for success day by day, year after year, and all for what? Once to find out some crazy idiot and noob making crappy, mediocre songs with my voice? Nope. I would f**k that bitch up so hard, he'd forget what music is for the rest of his life, if he'd survive at all. And you know, if you put yourself in position of them stars, you wouldn't want it either. And you'll do anything this never happens.
So it's simply not realistic. What's for a realistic vocal engine, not copying any artist, I say it's possible and the future will bring it. Something like this will happen in 10 years from now, I can see it.
There are lots of singers out there with similar voices.
These 3 come to mind right away.
Kim Carnes
Bonnie Tyler
Rod Stewart
Then you have
Paul McCartney
Emitt Rhodes
I could go on and on. Hell, how many country singers sound almost alike?
Even that software, without being able to imitate a singer exactly, I would pay mega bucks for as long as it produced a quality voice that I could mold to whatever sound I wanted.
In fact, I think something like that would be incredibly cool and exciting.
Compared to your typical VST (mind you, I'm not talking buying hardware here) yeah, that's pretty damn expensive.vurt wrote:i think its cute you think $1000 is megabucks for this level of tech.wagtunes wrote:Thank you. Somebody interested in having a rational, civil discussion. I agree. Copying an actual artist could be a real problem. I don't deny that. But certainly nothing is stopping us from creating a physical model of the human voice with enough parameters where the user could make any kind of voice he could possibly conceive of. So maybe he won't ever be able to copy Elton John's vocal chords exactly, but he could come up with a physical model, provided how skillful he was with the software, that was close.Dullee wrote:Not interested in copying living or dead pop/rock star voices myself, but sure as hell lots of people would interested in a realistic, highly dynamic vocal engine, that gives you speech and singing voices of all races, covers all music genres brilliantly, including opera, you name it.
Easier said than done, it's a crazy amount of work, totally nuts thing to think of, seemingly unrealistic job to pull off, and I'd say such software would cost 1000+++. Like many plus. Dynamics of human voice would be the toughest part, I reckon. That in conjunction with certain performance technicalities and nuances involved with each music style. It's really insane to think about.
I assume Spectrasonics would be after such thing, if this only was possible. Eric Persing would not let go of such opportunity, he knows very well he'd be crazy rich by now if he's made one.
Perhaps not possible for now, but I don't see why the future of technological singularity and AI replacing human on so many levels wouldn't bring such thing. It's perfectly logical, considering the path we're walking ourselves into, as a humanity. Sometimes this path scares me, to be honest, like really f**king scares me, like we all get redundant one day and hasta la vista baby, and perhaps we will get completely redundant, but there's no way of stopping it, unless certain cartoonish world leaders want to play a nuke game and put us all back to Stone Age. well, we might end up there anyway. we've chosen to replace so many things, automate, emulate, virtualize everything, in the end we will emulate ourselves, not only emulate, but enhance too.
Like Wag here, I think we just can't let it f**king be and accept a human error in ourselves. We're so scared of our f**k-ups, so embarrassed of our failures, we want a better, ideal version of ourselves. And we will get what we want. Not exactly what we want, but by that time it will be too late to figure out what went wrong.
It seems Kubrick and Cameron were really onto something with HAL and Skynet. Well, it was Kubrick's HAL originally, Skynet is an afterthought and it's a sort of exaggeration of HAL.
In regard to copying music celebrities' voices - it's not realistic. Those mega star lawyers and recording companies' lawyers will sue the crap out of you, if you put, say, Elton John in a song he doesn't have anything to do with, doesn't want anything to do with, and doesn't get any revenue from. Whoever comes up with such software, they simply would not let him be, he won't survive. A f**king Eric Persing goes mental with threats and shit on anybody who wants to approach D focking 50. Now imagine all these stars and their management and labels and lawyers. Forget it. Developer won't survive another day, literally.
It's a serious ethical question, it's a question of trademark of artist's originality and legacy, the voice of every singer is a property that sells, so it's many things for lawyers to get a hold of.
It could only work if the developer would pay some really indecent amount of cash to either artists themselves (if they'd be alive and willing to sell their voice and their job, latter highly unlikely) or to inheritors of artists legacy and copyright. And while I don't see active stars selling their voices and their bread and butter, some of the inheritors of them dead stars could easily jump on an easy money bandwagon. But again, developer would need to shell out some really crazy figures for this to happen. That crazy even 1000+++ for a license would not cover the costs and makes the whole idea pointless.
On another note, I know there's nothing holy in this world when a dollar sign is in play, but I wouldn't want any schmoe to have Elvis, Sinatra and Pavarotti under his fingertips. Seriously. I mean, if I'd be a platinum selling, world famous star, a serious pro, working on my game all my life, sacrificing so many things for success day by day, year after year, and all for what? Once to find out some crazy idiot and noob making crappy, mediocre songs with my voice? Nope. I would f**k that bitch up so hard, he'd forget what music is for the rest of his life, if he'd survive at all. And you know, if you put yourself in position of them stars, you wouldn't want it either. And you'll do anything this never happens.
So it's simply not realistic. What's for a realistic vocal engine, not copying any artist, I say it's possible and the future will bring it. Something like this will happen in 10 years from now, I can see it.
There are lots of singers out there with similar voices.
These 3 come to mind right away.
Kim Carnes
Bonnie Tyler
Rod Stewart
Then you have
Paul McCartney
Emitt Rhodes
I could go on and on. Hell, how many country singers sound almost alike?
Even that software, without being able to imitate a singer exactly, I would pay mega bucks for as long as it produced a quality voice that I could mold to whatever sound I wanted.
In fact, I think something like that would be incredibly cool and exciting.
Nobody is talking about "your typical vst".wagtunes wrote:Compared to your typical VST (mind you, I'm not talking buying hardware here) yeah, that's pretty damn expensive.vurt wrote:i think its cute you think $1000 is megabucks for this level of tech.wagtunes wrote:Thank you. Somebody interested in having a rational, civil discussion. I agree. Copying an actual artist could be a real problem. I don't deny that. But certainly nothing is stopping us from creating a physical model of the human voice with enough parameters where the user could make any kind of voice he could possibly conceive of. So maybe he won't ever be able to copy Elton John's vocal chords exactly, but he could come up with a physical model, provided how skillful he was with the software, that was close.Dullee wrote:Not interested in copying living or dead pop/rock star voices myself, but sure as hell lots of people would interested in a realistic, highly dynamic vocal engine, that gives you speech and singing voices of all races, covers all music genres brilliantly, including opera, you name it.
Easier said than done, it's a crazy amount of work, totally nuts thing to think of, seemingly unrealistic job to pull off, and I'd say such software would cost 1000+++. Like many plus. Dynamics of human voice would be the toughest part, I reckon. That in conjunction with certain performance technicalities and nuances involved with each music style. It's really insane to think about.
I assume Spectrasonics would be after such thing, if this only was possible. Eric Persing would not let go of such opportunity, he knows very well he'd be crazy rich by now if he's made one.
Perhaps not possible for now, but I don't see why the future of technological singularity and AI replacing human on so many levels wouldn't bring such thing. It's perfectly logical, considering the path we're walking ourselves into, as a humanity. Sometimes this path scares me, to be honest, like really f**king scares me, like we all get redundant one day and hasta la vista baby, and perhaps we will get completely redundant, but there's no way of stopping it, unless certain cartoonish world leaders want to play a nuke game and put us all back to Stone Age. well, we might end up there anyway. we've chosen to replace so many things, automate, emulate, virtualize everything, in the end we will emulate ourselves, not only emulate, but enhance too.
Like Wag here, I think we just can't let it f**king be and accept a human error in ourselves. We're so scared of our f**k-ups, so embarrassed of our failures, we want a better, ideal version of ourselves. And we will get what we want. Not exactly what we want, but by that time it will be too late to figure out what went wrong.
It seems Kubrick and Cameron were really onto something with HAL and Skynet. Well, it was Kubrick's HAL originally, Skynet is an afterthought and it's a sort of exaggeration of HAL.
In regard to copying music celebrities' voices - it's not realistic. Those mega star lawyers and recording companies' lawyers will sue the crap out of you, if you put, say, Elton John in a song he doesn't have anything to do with, doesn't want anything to do with, and doesn't get any revenue from. Whoever comes up with such software, they simply would not let him be, he won't survive. A f**king Eric Persing goes mental with threats and shit on anybody who wants to approach D focking 50. Now imagine all these stars and their management and labels and lawyers. Forget it. Developer won't survive another day, literally.
It's a serious ethical question, it's a question of trademark of artist's originality and legacy, the voice of every singer is a property that sells, so it's many things for lawyers to get a hold of.
It could only work if the developer would pay some really indecent amount of cash to either artists themselves (if they'd be alive and willing to sell their voice and their job, latter highly unlikely) or to inheritors of artists legacy and copyright. And while I don't see active stars selling their voices and their bread and butter, some of the inheritors of them dead stars could easily jump on an easy money bandwagon. But again, developer would need to shell out some really crazy figures for this to happen. That crazy even 1000+++ for a license would not cover the costs and makes the whole idea pointless.
On another note, I know there's nothing holy in this world when a dollar sign is in play, but I wouldn't want any schmoe to have Elvis, Sinatra and Pavarotti under his fingertips. Seriously. I mean, if I'd be a platinum selling, world famous star, a serious pro, working on my game all my life, sacrificing so many things for success day by day, year after year, and all for what? Once to find out some crazy idiot and noob making crappy, mediocre songs with my voice? Nope. I would f**k that bitch up so hard, he'd forget what music is for the rest of his life, if he'd survive at all. And you know, if you put yourself in position of them stars, you wouldn't want it either. And you'll do anything this never happens.
So it's simply not realistic. What's for a realistic vocal engine, not copying any artist, I say it's possible and the future will bring it. Something like this will happen in 10 years from now, I can see it.
There are lots of singers out there with similar voices.
These 3 come to mind right away.
Kim Carnes
Bonnie Tyler
Rod Stewart
Then you have
Paul McCartney
Emitt Rhodes
I could go on and on. Hell, how many country singers sound almost alike?
Even that software, without being able to imitate a singer exactly, I would pay mega bucks for as long as it produced a quality voice that I could mold to whatever sound I wanted.
In fact, I think something like that would be incredibly cool and exciting.
Remove the celebrity voices. Just make it pure physical modeling where the resulting voice is indistinguishable from a real human voice (no Vocaloid robotic artifacts) and the licensing issues are gone and you still have a quality vocal synth. $1,000 for something like that would be a lot of money and I'd still pay it as long as I can model any voice I can conceive of in my imagination. Obviously, it would probably have to have dozens if not hundreds of controls and would probably be extremely difficult to program. I'd still buy it. As long as the end result sounds like a professional singer.vurt wrote:but compared with vocaloid, then taking in to account the advance and possible licensing issues with vocalists modelled its not a great deal .
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