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Rameses · Post by **Rameses** » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:53 pm

Hi folks and welcome, I'd like to talk about rarely used, obscure or simply great unusual scales.

When I was learning how to play the piano (before actually getting into music theory but that is a whole another story) I've discovered a very interesting scale which was my first choice for improvising in my very beginnings when it comes to playing piano. It kind of sounds like a blues scale and I spent weeks just improvising in that scale and using it for various compositions and finessing techniques I could use in that scale. The scale is:

D purvi theta
and consists of the following notes:

D Eb F# G# A Bb C#

I looked it up recently (I wanted to know if there is a name for it) and was surprised that I didn't find any additional information on it.

The second scale I'd like to present to you is an unnamed scale and it was probably the second one of those which I've discovered accidentally:

C# D# E F G# B

For me it sounds similar to scales found in ethiopian music and I like it very much, haven't utilized it in a released production yet. Yeah I made a remix of Nicki Minaj' Anakonda using that scale but that's really a whole another story.

The third scale I'd like to show you is another one whose name I don't know yet and it's one of those scales which I've discovered more recently, it's a pentatonic one and sounds quite baroque to me.

C E G G#/Ab A#/Bb

What rare scales do you know? What do you have to say about those scales?

dark water · Post by **dark water** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:19 am

My cat likes C C# D D# E F F# G G# and Bb.
He demonstrates this by sitting on those notes whilst I'm trying to make music.
He doesn't like my music. But he likes his food.
We call it the Fishy Scale.

Rameses · Post by **Rameses** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:33 am

This is really an interesting story. Is this art?

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:25 am

forget you

Rameses wrote: Although this is a display of impiety I really would lke to state that I'm more than glad that he's [Stephen Hawking is] gone - a person with such a potential influence and reputation was way too negative and fatalisitc with his predictions and statements. I considered him simply insane and perhaps genuinely schizophrenic at some point, especially when I discovered that he was part of the catholic Institute of science. He was partially right about the big bang theory though and for that he deserves some credit, a stereotypical display of an insane genius.

Mean-spirited, profoundly ignorant and willfully so and, frankly just insane.
And the last sentence, what a whopper. To be 'partially right' about the big bang theory (just, wow) is a stereotypical display of an insane genius.

If you want to have a presence here and give and take, don't alienate people torturing them with such absolute garbage. I will never find discourse with you acceptable. When someone parades their true colors suddenly, I'll take them at face value, life is too short for exchanges with the person who wrote that crap. I'll be passing happy if you leave here.

Rameses · Post by **Rameses** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:35 am

It doesn't really sound like that scale though but thank you very much for your researching effort! The referred scale has a more cheerful, upright sound.

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:33 am

c#/db

Wtf dude, is this scale starting in a raised C or a lowered D? Make up your mind! Because it matters a lot.

You want the scale to be pronouncable, like C D E F G, a logical order. Instead of C D D# Gb G you'd go C D Eb F# G (a truely horrible example btw). Do you notice the difference?

Rameses · Post by **Rameses** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:30 am

Thanks, I just put the notes of the scale in a scale finder out of laziness in order to paste those as fast fast as possible

It's C#. Going to edit that.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:18 pm

Rameses · Post by **Rameses** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:13 pm

This is reaaaaaally interesting. Thank you very much for your research.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:40 pm

Tj Shredder · Post by **Tj Shredder** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:17 pm

Just a week ago I attended a workshop about Makam, the oriental scales, it really opens up a whole new world. Makams and Ragas are relatives btw...

herodotus · Post by **herodotus** » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:55 pm

Not that rare, but interesting, are the symmetrical modes, otherwise known as the modes of limited transposition.

The best known is probably the whole tone scale, of which there are only two:

C, D, E, F#, G#, A#, (C)
and
C#, D#, F, G, A, B, (C#)

The next best known is probably the octatonic scale, which is common in various kinds of Metal and in horror movie soundtracks. There are three transpositions of it:

C, C#,D#, E, F# G, A, A#, (C)
C#, D, E, F, G, G#, A#, B, (C#)
and
D, D#, F, F#, G#, A, B, C, (D)

Another one, less well known but very cool, has four transpositions:

C, C#, E, F, G# A, (C)
C#, D, F, F#, A, A#, (C#)
D, D#, F#, G, A#, B, (D)
and
D#, E, G, G#, B, C, (D#)

Notice that in each case, after you cycle through the listed transpositions, you arrive at the same collection of notes, starting at a different note. For example, the octatonic scale starting on D# is the same collection of notes as the one starting on C. That's why they're called 'modes of limited transposition'. They work the way that they do because they are symmetrical within the octave. Traditional tonal scales based on the circle of fifths are asymmetrical within the octave.

Messiaen listed numerous other such modes, but I have never been able to remember them, because they didn't sound right to me.

nordickvr · Post by **nordickvr** » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:32 pm

Those above are heavily used in jazz.

Rameses · Post by **Rameses** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:41 pm

herodotus wrote:Not that rare, but interesting, are the symmetrical modes, otherwise known as the modes of limited transposition.

The best known is probably the whole tone scale, of which there are only two:

C, D, E, F#, G#, A#, (C)
and
C#, D#, F, G, A, B, (C#)

The next best known is probably the octatonic scale, which is common in various kinds of Metal and in horror movie soundtracks. There are three transpositions of it:

C, C#,D#, E, F# G, A, A#, (C)
C#, D, E, F, G, G#, A#, B, (C#)
and
D, D#, F, F#, G#, A, B, C, (D)

Another one, less well known but very cool, has four transpositions:

C, C#, E, F, G# A, (C)
C#, D, F, F#, A, A#, (C#)
D, D#, F#, G, A#, B, (D)
and
D#, E, G, G#, B, C, (D#)

Notice that in each case, after you cycle through the listed transpositions, you arrive at the same collection of notes, starting at a different note. For example, the octatonic scale starting on D# is the same collection of notes as the one starting on C. That's why they're called 'modes of limited transposition'. They work the way that they do because they are symmetrical within the octave. Traditional tonal scales based on the circle of fifths are asymmetrical within the octave.

Messiaen listed numerous other such modes, but I have never been able to remember them, because they didn't sound right to me.

Interesting. I was researching this particular phenomenon some time ago but not that in-depth and without third-party-reference. Great post, thank you very much!

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:12 pm

So long as you use the 12 tone western system there are no rare scales. Everything starts with the chromatic and works it's way down from there. More often then not as you go down that route of irregular intervals it serves not to inspire but to alienate. Whilst I'm not a fan of djent or most edm as they fear embellishment beyond simply diatonic structures. There is something to be said for working within "Common frameworks"

Rare Musical Scales