The VSTi That I Would Pay $1,000 For

[jancivil]

While I don’t think calling people hypocrites is the easiest way to make a point, it’s still valid.

If someone is preaching something which closely resembles what wagtunes is preaching and then turns around to argue against it, sure. I never preached that. Not even hardly. By using orchestral libraries I did not demand every notable musical personality in the solo seats or first chairs be accessible to me. I'm fine with going with a fairly flat library where someone is recorded doing notes and then most gestures, or much of the time it's just your more useful articulations, it's all pretty flat as far as personality; and then I use a couple of things where a notable cat was recorded on the instrument and loads of gestures were sampled. It's still not me relying on the personality. I have my own. I wouldn't want something like this, at all.

So it's NOT valid. It's just a guy that doesn't want to hear anything except validation. It's people that find that idea acceptable getting behind it and not listening to the resistance to the notion. Same as ever, I suppose.
Depressing.

[braj]

A lot of musicians and music fans I know want to appreciate the human element and seeing us bags of blood and bones play live. That isn't going away just because technology makes synthetic singers a reality. I just see it as enabling more art, as well as more appreciation of hearing and seeing the real thing live. I have been using drum machines for thirty plus years, but I love seeing live drummers. This notion that it has to be either or is ironic given the forum here. I'll be stoked to see AI playing for me their subjective experience as self conscious entities experiencing their own digital dreams. I just hope they can appreciate my applause.

[pdxindy]

And like usual, you make great points about human interaction while simultaneously attacking someone by childishly altering his text to take on a different meaning.

I didn't alter his text at all... just bolded some of the words (which doesn't change the meaning)

[jancivil]

Since this isn't reality, not by a long, long ways, it's really a thought experiment.

So, there's my thought. I'm nauseated by the notion. It's not really a notion in the abstract as, it seems to me we can all attest to. So what it is is an in extremis, in the farthest reach or extent, for people that engage in the activity of 'virtual' music making.

It seemed so obvious to me: you make everything available by the machine - this amounts to AI, and the reasons it doesn't happen and won't, possibly in the time the human has left here, are not trivial - and ultimately (thought experiment, don't forget) it depresses the potential among the pool of people who can possibly become musicians. Because if somehow this was achievable with voice, it has to be for everything, really, and the leveling of personality in music (what if we were someday to realize that with every possible personal style, or every desirable famous voice that's ever been, scannable and with only the work of entering note-ons and controlling conditions for switching available to any and all hacks, that 'personality' has been sussed?) indicates such a radical depression of human will. Think, really think about this. If this were possible, do some of the rest of our thought experiment and begin to imagine the rest of tech at this level.

Beyond the considerations of automation which is a definite part of why I believe that the human is not long for this world, it's use-it-or-lose-it. It's HG Wells The Time Machine. For anything that has no idea what I'm on about it, read. Read some things; read specifically this book. Seriously.

Your conclusion of what that type of technology will bring is what’s depressing, because it requires assuming that it will become normal and accepted as being better than the real thing. Even WT concedes that just like the sample libraries being used, you can in most cases tell the difference between a real orchestra and a sampled one.

Anyway, I think that there would be a market for it, but it it wouldn’t replace anything.

Well, that concession disagrees with his premise. Either your piano roll work sounds like Sinatra or it doesn't. It doesn't so it's Vocaloid The Next Generation.

If_it_really_worked is the basis for my thought. if it doesn't, it wouldn't matter much, I grant you that. So the actual notion wasn't thought-through hardly at all, big surprise there. This is why I reiterated 'thought experiment' while I was thinking out loud here.

[jancivil]

That isn't going away just because technology makes synthetic singers a reality.

Apparently not, since Vocaloid has not depressed singers will to sing probably at all. I embarked on a thought experiment based in what the original post actually stated as the desire which was def not 'let's hope someday a Vocaloid will be possible.'

[pdxindy]

While I don’t think calling people hypocrites is the easiest way to make a point, it’s still valid.

If someone is preaching something which closely resembles what wagtunes is preaching and then turns around to argue against it, sure. I never preached that. Not even hardly. By using orchestral libraries I did not demand every notable musical personality in the solo seats or first chairs be accessible to me. I'm fine with going with a fairly flat library where someone is recorded doing notes and then most gestures, or much of the time it's just your more useful articulations, it's all pretty flat as far as personality; and then I use a couple of things where a notable cat was recorded on the instrument and loads of gestures were sampled. It's still not me relying on the personality. I have my own. I wouldn't want something like this, at all.

So it's NOT valid..

Yeah... that is along the lines of what I was thinking when I said what Wags is asking for is a couple steps farther along than just sample libraries...

[elxsound]

Since this isn't reality, not by a long, long ways, it's really a thought experiment.

So, there's my thought. I'm nauseated by the notion. It's not really a notion in the abstract as, it seems to me we can all attest to. So what it is is an in extremis, in the farthest reach or extent, for people that engage in the activity of 'virtual' music making.

It seemed so obvious to me: you make everything available by the machine - this amounts to AI, and the reasons it doesn't happen and won't, possibly in the time the human has left here, are not trivial - and ultimately (thought experiment, don't forget) it depresses the potential among the pool of people who can possibly become musicians. Because if somehow this was achievable with voice, it has to be for everything, really, and the leveling of personality in music (what if we were someday to realize that with every possible personal style, or every desirable famous voice that's ever been, scannable and with only the work of entering note-ons and controlling conditions for switching available to any and all hacks, that 'personality' has been sussed?) indicates such a radical depression of human will. Think, really think about this. If this were possible, do some of the rest of our thought experiment and begin to imagine the rest of tech at this level.

Beyond the considerations of automation which is a definite part of why I believe that the human is not long for this world, it's use-it-or-lose-it. It's HG Wells The Time Machine. For anything that has no idea what I'm on about it, read. Read some things; read specifically this book. Seriously.

Your conclusion of what that type of technology will bring is what’s depressing, because it requires assuming that it will become normal and accepted as being better than the real thing. Even WT concedes that just like the sample libraries being used, you can in most cases tell the difference between a real orchestra and a sampled one.

Anyway, I think that there would be a market for it, but it it wouldn’t replace anything.

Well, that concession disagrees with his premise. Either your piano roll work sounds like Sinatra or it doesn't. It doesn't so it's Vocaloid The Next Generation.

If_it_really_worked is the basis for my thought. if it doesn't, it wouldn't matter much, I grant you that. So the actual notion wasn't thought-through hardly at all, big surprise there. This is why I reiterated 'thought experiment' while I was thinking out loud here.

Yeah, basically. Not that you or any of us have anything to gain by reading through these 20+ pages, but he has conceded quite a bit and mostly what can be understood is that he simply wants another way of expression that simply will not exist for him. Not much to argue here.

And I do get that, if it worked... and I do think one day it will work but again I don’t share your depressive state because I don’t see it as being a replacement for the real thing.

Look you and I both have drumming backgrounds (from what I remember of your posts). I’ve seen some great finger drummers but it’s the individual and not the technology of drum plugins that make it sound great. No piano roll replaces the real thing now or later, in my opinion of course. I think the same can be said for whatever new tech comes around in the future.

[elxsound]

And like usual, you make great points about human interaction while simultaneously attacking someone by childishly altering his text to take on a different meaning.

I didn't alter his text at all... just bolded some of the words (which doesn't change the meaning)

Colace.

[Elektronisch]

Moderators should forbid you create topics.

Now that's something worth paying $1000 for

This put a tear on my eye

[Cinebient]

I´m sure it will happen some day, also actors will be replaced by CGI and humans by A.I.
Let´s better enjoy what we have now since we are all obsolete (or dead) in some decades.

[Elektronisch]

I´m sure it will happen some day, also actors will be replaced by CGI and humans by A.I.
Let´s better enjoy what we have now since we are all obsolete (or dead) in some decades.

A bit offtopic Imo CGI can replace actors already. It could 10 years ago. At least for me.

I remember was watching Beowulf and up till the middle i noticed that its actually a CGI. At first i notice there was something weird about the movie but couldnt put it what was it. And its a movie that is 11 years old now

Anyway, carry on the discussion

[Cinebient]

I´m sure it will happen some day, also actors will be replaced by CGI and humans by A.I.
Let´s better enjoy what we have now since we are all obsolete (or dead) in some decades.

A bit offtopic Imo CGI can replace actors already. It could 10 years ago. At least for me.

I remember was watching Beowulf and up till the middle i noticed that its actually a CGI. At first i notice there was something weird about the movie but couldnt put it what was it. And its a movie that is 11 years old now

Anyway, carry on the discussion

Lol, i also was thinking about Beowulf. I mean it´s still far away from reality for me, especially on a giant 4K OLED TV (or whatever you prefer these days).
Indeed i think i often miss those fantastic costume and FX creator of the old times.
A lot movies are too much CGI and while it works good in the cinema i find it looks still too much fake at home. One of the greatest thing ever is still for me the transformation in American Werewolf. Maybe it will be the same with A.I. voices. New generations are impressed until they hear a real voice and wonder why no one is using it these days.

[wagtunes]

Waking up to this depressing thread, my only consolation is that some people are actually on my side.

And I already said THREE f**king TIMES that I'll give up the celebrity sound alike option. Just give me f**king piece of software that sounds like a real human singer and not like a Japanese anime cartoon.

FFS

[do_androids_dream]

This instrument you seek will doubtless exist fairly soon.. and destroy another section of human mystique along with everything else technology 'advancements' will eventually destroy.

[wagtunes]

This instrument you seek will doubtless exist fairly soon.. and destroy another section of human mystique along with everything else technology 'advancements' will eventually destroy.

Cheese and rice. Do you people REALLY feel this way about all the virtual instruments we already have that replace human beings playing those instruments? If so, what the f**k are you doing at this forum? It doesn't make any sense to be so against this technology.