need help on audio system for gallery installation

[woggle]

For me the term "sound installation" is not justified if you just play back sound files. Intractivity or at least some never repeating sounds are what would be so much more interesting, especially for the stuff which has to listen to it all day long...

thanks, what is your experience in this field? I would be very intereted to learn from some examples - also it is an art installation with sound, not a sound installation and noone will be listening to it all day long - 5 mins is about what you get at best from a gallery visitor so it is not so important to have endless variation - I will probably compose about 30 -60 mins of material organised into 5 minute conceptually coherent blocks. But maybe longer - I will see as I work more with the material

[Tj Shredder]

What you could do, is to go for 8 tracks, but have them on different loop lengths (don't know if that waveplayer is capable of that). That would already create ever variing combinations of sounds.
In Max or Pd of course you would have many more options, like randomly, maybe with a gaussian distribution, putting in single sounds. You can have background noises like fire, running people, panicking people, mixed in with varying probabilities. If you do that subtly, it might keep the people longer in the exhibition...
I usually want to be in the space and adjust parameters of my algorithms. If you have a fixed tape, you have a much longer turnaround. Listen, go back to the studio, or into the sequencer, adjust some or many bits and pieces, listen again etc. But if you are in the space and had prepared lets say some crys coming occasionally out of a speaker according to a rule, its as simple as tweaking a parameter, and you get an immediate result.
Long turnarounds also lead to compromises...
You do have a learning curve to get into one of the two, but its worth it, turns you away from the fixed time line concepts we have all around us always. Its also way more fun to listen to your own work, it will surprise you each time you get into your space...
Pd has the advantage, that it would run on a Rasberry Pi... Max/MSP has much more tools and especially GUIs, but for an installation that doesn't matter so much and you would need a real Mac or PC...
Big advantage of the Raspberry, the hardware is so cheap, any little gallery could afford to put it up, and you could even sell the complete work including the hardware... As it does not require any updates or such, and it is open sourced, future art archeologists would be able to restore it...

[Tj Shredder]

double post for unknown reason...

[woggle]

thanks for those suggestions Tj Shredder. I will keep them in the back of my mind for a few days and see what pops up

[Wifice]

I have the same issue with my audio system. I appreciate your comments, really helps. Thanks.

[ThomasHelzle]

Just some random input:

For pure single multichannel file playback in a loop (I usually use FLAC), Resonic Player is free and works great, no DAW etc. needed. Very easy to use. I hope multi-file-looping will come too.
https://resonic.at/

To make the windows surround stuff work with ASIO drivers you can use "ASIO Bridge":
https://www.vb-audio.com/Cable/index.htm
Scroll down a bit. Looks not exactly thrilling but works for me for many years now on my main audio machine with a Focusrite 18i20.

For low budget and not too high volumes, the JBL LSR 305 may be an option:
https://www.thomann.de/de/jbl_lsr_305.htm

Cheers,

Tom

[woggle]

Just some random input:

For pure single multichannel file playback in a loop (I usually use FLAC), Resonic Player is free and works great, no DAW etc. needed. Very easy to use. I hope multi-file-looping will come too.
https://resonic.at/

To make the windows surround stuff work with ASIO drivers you can use "ASIO Bridge":
https://www.vb-audio.com/Cable/index.htm
Scroll down a bit. Looks not exactly thrilling but works for me for many years now on my main audio machine with a Focusrite 18i20.

For low budget and not too high volumes, the JBL LSR 305 may be an option:
https://www.thomann.de/de/jbl_lsr_305.htm

Cheers,

Tom

thanks Tom - I use Resonic as well (Pro - I thought it worth supporting, hopefully writing metadata comes soon).
ASIO Bridge looks handy - thanks
and thanks for the speaker info - will depend on the budget. I am used to ADAMs but we may need cheaper speakers. Find out Monday I hope

[ThomasHelzle]

thanks Tom - I use Resonic as well (Pro - I thought it worth supporting, hopefully writing metadata comes soon).
ASIO Bridge looks handy - thanks
and thanks for the speaker info - will depend on the budget. I am used to ADAMs but we may need cheaper speakers. Find out Monday I hope

Yeah, I use Pro as well (actually bought the first license in existence ).
I'm sure Tom, the creator of Resonic would consider implementing looped playback of folders - would make a lot of sense IMO.

As for speakters: The "Eve" brand can also be very interesting for such things, since it has very good internal electronics. They use similar components (The company was founded by former Adam people) and sound better to my ear.
I once was at a Bitwig-Party where the DJ used the small 5" ones for a rather large room and it impressed me how good they sounded at rather loud volumes, how much bass they had (no subwoofer was used).
And they have a very efficient limiter if things should get out of hand...
Worth a look maybe.

Cheers,

Tom

[woggle]

thanks Tom - I use Resonic as well (Pro - I thought it worth supporting, hopefully writing metadata comes soon).
ASIO Bridge looks handy - thanks
and thanks for the speaker info - will depend on the budget. I am used to ADAMs but we may need cheaper speakers. Find out Monday I hope

Yeah, I use Pro as well (actually bought the first license in existence ).
I'm sure Tom, the creator of Resonic would consider implementing looped playback of folders - would make a lot of sense IMO.

As for speakters: The "Eve" brand can also be very interesting for such things, since it has very good internal electronics. They use similar components (The company was founded by former Adam people) and sound better to my ear.
I once was at a Bitwig-Party where the DJ used the small 5" ones for a rather large room and it impressed me how good they sounded at rather loud volumes, how much bass they had (no subwoofer was used).
And they have a very efficient limiter if things should get out of hand...
Worth a look maybe.

Cheers,

Tom

EVE's were recommended as well but I think they may be too visually noticeable compared to the ADAMS - the installation will be in a small space for the first exhibition so volume is not a problem - controlling the space resonance will be more the issue - hence I like the idea of using Reaper on a PC so I can use ReaEQ.

Budget will be the big decider - may even end up with those JBLs you mentioned. Find out Monday I hope

[Winstontaneous]

Another cheap speaker option - use a multi-channel receiver/amp...with the influx of convenient mp3 player/Bluetooth speaker consumer garbage, lots of people have retired perfectly good (and better-sounding) component amps/speakers. Sounds like you actually have a budget though.

IME with sonic art installations what can go wrong will, and gallery people tend to have little experience/interest in the nuances of audio technology. I've had several where they turned the sound off after the opening event because they couldn't be bothered with following simple instructions, or "sound in an empty gallery all day is annoying". The simpler the better - a hardware file player (or several) with a start/stop button, or multi-channel DVD for audio on endless loop vs. computer-based setups, unless you know/trust the gallerists' tech skills and commitment to supporting your vision.

Also IME the typical person isn't impressed by interactive features if they aren't first drawn in by the piece's aesthetic merits and/or don't understand its underlying intent. "Ooh-aah an app...why should I care?" Relational pieces (creator interacting with visitors in real-time) tend to be much more compelling.

[woggle]

Another cheap speaker option - use a multi-channel receiver/amp...with the influx of convenient mp3 player/Bluetooth speaker consumer garbage, lots of people have retired perfectly good (and better-sounding) component amps/speakers. Sounds like you actually have a budget though.

IME with sonic art installations what can go wrong will, and gallery people tend to have little experience/interest in the nuances of audio technology. I've had several where they turned the sound off after the opening event because they couldn't be bothered with following simple instructions, or "sound in an empty gallery all day is annoying". The simpler the better - a hardware file player (or several) with a start/stop button, or multi-channel DVD for audio on endless loop vs. computer-based setups, unless you know/trust the gallerists' tech skills and commitment to supporting your vision.

Also IME the typical person isn't impressed by interactive features if they aren't first drawn in by the piece's aesthetic merits and/or don't understand its underlying intent. "Ooh-aah an app...why should I care?" Relational pieces (creator interacting with visitors in real-time) tend to be much more compelling.

thanks for those observations - this work is an installation by a well known artist with an audio component by me. My part will basically be file playback - 4 channel I think, to get some movement from back to front. I had not though of DVD as a media playback device - not a bad idea and they are very cheap. The commissioning gallery are very good and very supportive and if the show tours the other galleries should be okay, but one never knows. We had problems with a reasonable sized gallery in Holland in a show that was opened by King Willem-Alexander of the Netherlands - so one can never tell
[I didnt even know they had a king and was quite surprised at the public turnout to see him arrive. I was not there, but my colleague was and I saw the video]

[Winstontaneous]

Another cheap speaker option - use a multi-channel receiver/amp...with the influx of convenient mp3 player/Bluetooth speaker consumer garbage, lots of people have retired perfectly good (and better-sounding) component amps/speakers. Sounds like you actually have a budget though.

IME with sonic art installations what can go wrong will, and gallery people tend to have little experience/interest in the nuances of audio technology. I've had several where they turned the sound off after the opening event because they couldn't be bothered with following simple instructions, or "sound in an empty gallery all day is annoying". The simpler the better - a hardware file player (or several) with a start/stop button, or multi-channel DVD for audio on endless loop vs. computer-based setups, unless you know/trust the gallerists' tech skills and commitment to supporting your vision.

Also IME the typical person isn't impressed by interactive features if they aren't first drawn in by the piece's aesthetic merits and/or don't understand its underlying intent. "Ooh-aah an app...why should I care?" Relational pieces (creator interacting with visitors in real-time) tend to be much more compelling.

thanks for those observations - this work is an installation by a well known artist with an audio component by me. My part will basically be file playback - 4 channel I think, to get some movement from back to front. I had not though of DVD as a media playback device - not a bad idea and they are very cheap. The commissioning gallery are very good and very supportive and if the show tours the other galleries should be okay, but one never knows. We had problems with a reasonable sized gallery in Holland in a show that was opened by King Willem-Alexander of the Netherlands - so one can never tell
[I didnt even know they had a king and was quite surprised at the public turnout to see him arrive. I was not there, but my colleague was and I saw the video]

Cool, in that case the logistics are different if you're the main attraction! Most of my experience is with university/gallery group shows and festivals with many presenters. Would be interested in links to the show.

TapeOp has an interesting feature this issue on Christina Kubisch, whose work I hadn't known: https://tapeop.com/interviews/124/christina-kubisch/

[woggle]

Another cheap speaker option - use a multi-channel receiver/amp...with the influx of convenient mp3 player/Bluetooth speaker consumer garbage, lots of people have retired perfectly good (and better-sounding) component amps/speakers. Sounds like you actually have a budget though.

IME with sonic art installations what can go wrong will, and gallery people tend to have little experience/interest in the nuances of audio technology. I've had several where they turned the sound off after the opening event because they couldn't be bothered with following simple instructions, or "sound in an empty gallery all day is annoying". The simpler the better - a hardware file player (or several) with a start/stop button, or multi-channel DVD for audio on endless loop vs. computer-based setups, unless you know/trust the gallerists' tech skills and commitment to supporting your vision.

Also IME the typical person isn't impressed by interactive features if they aren't first drawn in by the piece's aesthetic merits and/or don't understand its underlying intent. "Ooh-aah an app...why should I care?" Relational pieces (creator interacting with visitors in real-time) tend to be much more compelling.

thanks for those observations - this work is an installation by a well known artist with an audio component by me. My part will basically be file playback - 4 channel I think, to get some movement from back to front. I had not though of DVD as a media playback device - not a bad idea and they are very cheap. The commissioning gallery are very good and very supportive and if the show tours the other galleries should be okay, but one never knows. We had problems with a reasonable sized gallery in Holland in a show that was opened by King Willem-Alexander of the Netherlands - so one can never tell
[I didnt even know they had a king and was quite surprised at the public turnout to see him arrive. I was not there, but my colleague was and I saw the video]

Cool, in that case the logistics are different if you're the main attraction! Most of my experience is with university/gallery group shows and festivals with many presenters. Would be interested in links to the show.

TapeOp has an interesting feature this issue on Christina Kubisch, whose work I hadn't known: https://tapeop.com/interviews/124/christina-kubisch/

Thanks for the Christina Kubisch link - I dont think I know her either.

I've had problems with "bleed" in group shows too - no doubt audio in galleries is difficult unless a lot of effort has gone in to isolating each piece. Headphones only get you so far - I dont really like using them in work unless they fit conceptually as a form of enclosure / intimacy / touching / isolation. I used headphones in one of the pieces in that Dutch show where the sound was very focused on the handling of artefacts in the British Museum archives, lots of crinkling of tissue paper, drawers sliding and similar

For this show we have our own space and the problem will be in isolating us from everyone else

[woggle]

thanks again everyone for the help - in the end I have gone with JBL305 speakers (thanks Thomas) and one of these that a few people have had good results with lately here
http://www.waveplayer-systems.com/

[ThomasHelzle]

Best of luck with the exhibition!

Cheers,

Tom