Microtuning software Alt-Tuner: anyone else using this sleeper gem?

[dark water]

Hello everyone,

I was surprised to see not much talk here about Alt-Tuner (although I might have missed some posts?).
It's been out for about 4 years and it offers the chance to microtune 'any' softsynth and many hardware synths via midi:

http://www.tallkite.com/alt-tuner.html


Alt-Tuner runs on PCs, macs and Linux/Wine machines.

I picked it up today and have started going through the manual, using it in Reaper (rewired to my main DAW Ableton 8 ).
My first impressions is that there is a moderate learning curve, but this can be overcome with a few more sessions with it.

The reason for this thread is just to see if any / many of you are also using it, and if so what tips have you found by using it so far (as I'm new to it)?


It is a tad costly at $99, and there is a very limited demo which only allows you to do a quick check as to whether it will actually run on your machine. There are also only a couple of very brief videos of it in action.
However, there is also a 30 day no-questions refund policy and the developer seems like a decent and genuine bloke. Also, as I had $99 spare, I thought I'd give it a gamble!

IMO, it's not a necessary plugin for those who wish to experiment with microtuning, as there are now a fair few synths which accept scala and .tun files etc.
For instance, buying Scala and using a softsynth like Zebra / Pianoteq etc should allow you to meet many microtuning wishes.
However, Alt-Tuner offers a different take on microtuning, with its lattice 'Elite BBC Micro game' GUI, and it promises to work with 'all' your synths.


I shall continue exploring it further in the coming days.
But if anyone else has any tips, or just advice about what you have found when using this plugin, I'd be interested to hear.

Cheers,

[dark water]

Well it looks like I am, ahem,...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVEohM8BOQQ

[Jafo]

If you're still on Windows x32 (or are hip to jBridge), TobyBear's MicroTuner is excellent and free.

[dark water]

If you're still on Windows x32 (or are hip to jBridge), TobyBear's MicroTuner is excellent and free.

I see this recommended a lot (and I've downloaded it a couple of times in the past few years) but does it work on your machine still?
My machine is a Win7 PC and I run Ableton 8 32-bit (although I'm rapidly veering towards 64).
MicroTuner loads as a plugin but doesn't function beyond displaying its GUI on my computer. I have a ton of scala and also .tun files, but nothing loads for me with MicroTuner. I click the 'load' button but nothing happens.

I'm guessing that you currently have MicroTuner working on your machine Jafo (otherwise you wouldn't have posted it in this thread).
But what are your machine specifications and in fairness what's going wrong for me with my Win7 PC Ableton 32 setup in which case?

I digress.

Has anyone else tried Alt-Tuner?

[Pytchblend]

I don't use Alt-Tuner, I use Scala. It's a standalone app that can be used to retune live MIDI with a feature called 'MIDI Relay. Best of all, it's free. http://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/

[Cinebient]

I don't use Alt-Tuner, I use Scala. It's a standalone app that can be used to retune live MIDI with a feature called 'MIDI Relay. Best of all, it's free. http://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/

But terrible to use (for me).
I tried so many ways to tune things but at the end the only thing which works perfectly was importing .tun (or .scl with kbm) files into tools which supports it.
Otherwise it´s often just don´t work or midi notes can get extreme stretched or it does weird things.
I do wish it all tools would just offer .tun file import as part of a preset.
In Kontakt it´s a mess too for me and in Falcon it doesn´t work too like i would.
This live midi tuning is really bad in most cases.
A reason i really appreciate Spectrasonics and U-he tools.

[brewt]

I've looked at it. It doesn't offer any improved functionality over scala, or using Myriad's harmony assistant to pitch-bend the lines into a tuning system, except that you can work with your keyboard directly. The shortfall is that you have to work monophonically with it, one line at a time, which, while workable, is tedious. Much better to have the synth implement the scale itself, to make it easier to explore harmonies directly, which is the main point to alternate tuning.

[terriandralph]

Don't mean to be unjustly critical of Tall Kite's hard work and accomplishment with creating alt-tuner (and he's welcome to prove me wrong, which would be entirely fine by me, because then I could take up using it again with renewed confidence), but some of what brewt says is what I also perceived as its shortcomings.

I bought alt-tuner and used it for quite a few projects, only to find that I lost confidence that it was accurately tuning the chords of my microtonal pieces. Unless I am missing something, I came to the realization that, if alt-tuner is using pitchbend to retune pitches, how is it handling the tuning of all of the pitches at the same time? You can see the pitchwheel moving, but to retune all of the pitches? I agree with brewt when he says that, while working with alt-tuner monophonically one line at a time is workable, it is tedious. I figured I could only have confidence in using alt-tuner to retune chords if I retuned each chord tone on a separate channel, which I wasn't prepared to do.

[Cinebient]

Don't mean to be unjustly critical of Tall Kite's hard work and accomplishment with creating alt-tuner (and he's welcome to prove me wrong, which would be entirely fine by me, because then I could take up using it again with renewed confidence), but some of what brewt says is what I also perceived as its shortcomings.

I bought alt-tuner and used it for quite a few projects, only to find that I lost confidence that it was accurately tuning the chords of my microtonal pieces. Unless I am missing something, I came to the realization that, if alt-tuner is using pitchbend to retune pitches, how is it handling the tuning of all of the pitches at the same time? You can see the pitchwheel moving, but to retune all of the pitches? I agree with brewt when he says that, while working with alt-tuner monophonically one line at a time is workable, it is tedious. I figured I could only have confidence in using alt-tuner to retune chords if I retuned each chord tone on a separate channel, which I wasn't prepared to do.

The problem is also that if i use a tuning where the midi note which gets tuned will be extreme far away from the „original“ frequeny and it sounds terrible.
Also if pitchbend get used for tuning, how do i use the pitchbend to pitch my tuned frequencies now.
So it‘s usable for not so far away tunings of the western scale and monphonic and if you don‘t want to pitchbend on top.
Otherwise the tool itself should have the option to output the right frequencies.

[sqigls]

i stick to:-
AAS and u-he instruments, Synthmaster and Spire.
Chipsounds can load some kind of tuning files, but i haven't figured how to make them or load them myself...

Some soft synths that can tune the master to a specific frequency but can't load intonation files are... Carbon Electra, StringVST, APC - Hang Drum, Albino, Nabla, Predator, Sprike, Wivi_Band...

Custom Scale Editor is only 24 99 €
https://hpi.zentral.zone/cse

and their microtonal sound font synthesiser...
https://hpi.zentral.zone/microsynth

as far as hardware goes, you want this...
https://hpi.zentral.zone/tbx2

genuine microtuning, up to 16 voices monotimbral. can do keyboard splits and stuff. Holds 8,192 tunings!! pretty solid. Aphex worthy

[dark water]

Don't mean to be unjustly critical of Tall Kite's hard work and accomplishment with creating alt-tuner (and he's welcome to prove me wrong, which would be entirely fine by me, because then I could take up using it again with renewed confidence), but some of what brewt says is what I also perceived as its shortcomings.

I bought alt-tuner and used it for quite a few projects, only to find that I lost confidence that it was accurately tuning the chords of my microtonal pieces. Unless I am missing something, I came to the realization that, if alt-tuner is using pitchbend to retune pitches, how is it handling the tuning of all of the pitches at the same time? You can see the pitchwheel moving, but to retune all of the pitches? I agree with brewt when he says that, while working with alt-tuner monophonically one line at a time is workable, it is tedious. I figured I could only have confidence in using alt-tuner to retune chords if I retuned each chord tone on a separate channel, which I wasn't prepared to do.

The problem is also that if i use a tuning where the midi note which gets tuned will be extreme far away from the „original“ frequeny and it sounds terrible.
Also if pitchbend get used for tuning, how do i use the pitchbend to pitch my tuned frequencies now.
So it‘s usable for not so far away tunings of the western scale and monphonic and if you don‘t want to pitchbend on top.
Otherwise the tool itself should have the option to output the right frequencies.

Yep, fair points chaps about its shortcomings (although, I'm happy to accept Alt-Tuner for what it does).
As some of you also mentioned above, Scala (which I use too) is another excellent way to experiment with micro tuning.
For me, micro tuning is a bit of an exotic luxury - rather than a mission to change my music wholesale - so I'm happy to tinker around with the likes of Scala and Alt-Tuner for something which sounds a tad different.
Done well, micro-tuning songs offer a sense of mystery and 'otherness'; done badly they sound like wonky crap.

Thanks sqigls for the headsup about those other options, particularly the hardware (and now my GAS is kicking in again!).

[terriandralph]

I thought it would be only fair to do a followup response to the comments I made earlier in this thread regarding Alt-Tuner, especially after coming to the realization how important a role it will play in some of the upcoming microtonal pieces I have planned for the near future (not to mention how harsh and one-sided my opinions sound after rereading my earlier comments regarding Alt-Tuner, a project into which Kite has obviously put a lot of time and effort)

I really would like to be able to include a vocal in some of my upcoming microtonal pieces, and I have downloaded Alter Ego by Plogue and am pleased with the sound I am getting from the VST. I thought I read somewhere Alter Ego is microtunable by importing a Scala file, but after thoroughly checking the GUI I have not found this to be the case.

And so, after putting Alt-Tuner away for some time, I felt I needed to revisit it when I had no other viable option to apply microtuning to Alter Ego by Plogue.

I still stand by my comments regarding its shortcomings, but at the end of the day I would have to say I am extremely grateful for Alt-Tuner. For certain situations, it is an invaluable tool I would have a difficult time trying to replace.

[kidslow]

Done well, micro-tuning songs offer a sense of mystery and 'otherness

Flying Microtonal Banana?

[Tj Shredder]

If its using pitch bend to tune, you would need for polyphony MPE capable synths and DAW. Most of those support already micro-tuning... You’ll have no luck in Live for example...