KVR Audio

THE INTRANCER · Post by **THE INTRANCER** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:55 pm

Forget RE's..they are a dead loss, just buy Reaktor if you want to explore more instruments and effects..there's a library of over 3000 of them you can get for free...and there is several hundred free 64 Bit VST's out there for you to discover.

quincy · Post by **quincy** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:22 pm

I already own Reaktor 6 and I like it a lot but it’s not the same. Reaktor always strikes me as a great way to make individual instruments but a horrible way to combine multiple instruments together. I never liked using it in a DAW but as standalone environment for experimentation it’s fun.

I don’t want more VSTs for the moment. I own quite a few. And I am limited in how I can plug them together. I’m enjoying the reason rack and the modularity. Despite the tiny interface!

braj · Post by **braj** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:46 pm

Yeah, for me the attraction to REs is that they are native. I have lots of vsts that I will also use with Reason. It isn't an either or situation.

THE INTRANCER · Post by **THE INTRANCER** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:37 pm

quincy wrote:I already own Reaktor 6 and I like it a lot but it’s not the same. Reaktor always strikes me as a great way to make individual instruments but a horrible way to combine multiple instruments together. I never liked using it in a DAW but as standalone environment for experimentation it’s fun.

I don’t want more VSTs for the moment. I own quite a few. And I am limited in how I can plug them together. I’m enjoying the reason rack and the modularity. Despite the tiny interface!

Reason for me became too limiting, even with designing highly complex systems with it like this around a combinator integrating RE's and other native devices. They didn't ever serve any practical use in my music, it was more of a modular play thing...just to see how far I could take Reason...but it still felt limiting and why I began building stuff in Reaktor so far as actually learning it and building complex interfaces 10 times bigger than a combinator.

Advanced Combinator

quincy · Post by **quincy** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:42 am

THE INTRANCER wrote:Reason for me became too limiting, even with designing highly complex systems with it like this around a combinator integrating RE's and other native devices. They didn't ever serve any practical use in my music, it was more of a modular play thing...just to see how far I could take Reason...but it still felt limiting and why I began building stuff in Reaktor so far as actually learning it and building complex interfaces 10 times bigger than a combinator.

Advanced Combinator

Wow that's a pretty huge combinator!!

What you've said makes perfect sense and if I was more interesting in building my own instruments and effects I'd probably spend more time with Reaktor as well. I think the Reaktor Blocks format is very interesting and I wonder if they'll go further down that route.

I think what I've realised this time around, after not using Reason for years, is that I can use it very much in a eurorack sort of way in the sense that I can build generative and semi-controlled machines that will take a small amount of my input and then produce interesting results in terms of long and evolving sequences, modulation-heavy sounds, soundscapes etc.

I think the choice we all have now is just amazing. None of us should be complaining - what's possible with a laptop and some free or cheap software is just unbelievable!!

I should point out - I'm not in any way a musician. I've got no formal theory training and I can't play an instrument. This is a way for me to have fun and be creative with sound and music in short bursts. I'm a software developer by trade so "making stuff with computers" is my thing. I'm not artistic in any traditional sense but technology fills that gap for me.

I'd love to get hold of that combinator patch...

THE INTRANCER · Post by **THE INTRANCER** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:21 pm

quincy wrote:
THE INTRANCER wrote:Reason for me became too limiting, even with designing highly complex systems with it like this around a combinator integrating RE's and other native devices. They didn't ever serve any practical use in my music, it was more of a modular play thing...just to see how far I could take Reason...but it still felt limiting and why I began building stuff in Reaktor so far as actually learning it and building complex interfaces 10 times bigger than a combinator.

Advanced Combinator
Wow that's a pretty huge combinator!!

What you've said makes perfect sense and if I was more interesting in building my own instruments and effects I'd probably spend more time with Reaktor as well. I think the Reaktor Blocks format is very interesting and I wonder if they'll go further down that route.

I think what I've realised this time around, after not using Reason for years, is that I can use it very much in a eurorack sort of way in the sense that I can build generative and semi-controlled machines that will take a small amount of my input and then produce interesting results in terms of long and evolving sequences, modulation-heavy sounds, soundscapes etc.

I think the choice we all have now is just amazing. None of us should be complaining - what's possible with a laptop and some free or cheap software is just unbelievable!!

I should point out - I'm not in any way a musician. I've got no formal theory training and I can't play an instrument. This is a way for me to have fun and be creative with sound and music in short bursts. I'm a software developer by trade so "making stuff with computers" is my thing. I'm not artistic in any traditional sense but technology fills that gap for me.

I'd love to get hold of that combinator patch...

You can download Arprella Fet here, but as with such things, it does need these particular RE's to function as intended.

This is another project called SSHARK I did back in 2014, it doesn't require any RE's you need to buy really as such but it does use one Antidote device, that you can substitute for another instrument if you don't have it, although the modulation within the combinator has many parameters set for it. It's an another advanced Combinator but with a low CPU hit and it comes with 63 presets, you can download it from here. It was the last project I did before moving to Reaktor.

fwsuperhero · Post by **fwsuperhero** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:55 am

Yep, great subscribtion model....
Ive bought just some CV tools, Grid 64 for my launchpad and then one multiband compressor as vst doesnt support sidechain yet. These things cant be emulated in any other daw so i am happy. VSTs for everything else...

Spencer Maddox · Post by **Spencer Maddox** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:14 pm

I actually loved the Idea of being able to Rent Rack Extensions for temporary use, But the Inability to use the RE offline always Killed it for me since I often produce with the internet turned off (Limits Distractions) and I produce on the move a lot.
If Props was to do something like Splice Did with Serum where you can run up to like, 7 days or so without an Internet connection (I think its 7, or something to that extent) then I'd be completely on-board the idea.

noremorse · Post by **noremorse** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:10 pm

[quote=

This is another project called SSHARK I did back in 2014, it doesn't require any RE's you need to buy really as such but it does use one Antidote device, that you can substitute for another instrument if you don't have it, although the modulation within the combinator has many parameters set for it. It's an another advanced Combinator but with a low CPU hit and it comes with 63 presets, you can download it from here. It was the last project I did before moving to Reaktor.

[/quote]

This is f*cking impossible to look at!

jjpscott01 · Post by **jjpscott01** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:24 pm

I hate subscription models and swore against them as I am someone who wants to own what I pay money for. With that said... This is how you do one right if your going to offer it. Its so easy, its low risk, and you can swap out devices and instruments as you like. The flexibility makes it feel like they really put some thought in to how it benefits the end-user.

THE INTRANCER · Post by **THE INTRANCER** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:37 am

noremorse wrote:
This is f*cking impossible to look at![/quote wrote:
It is when you, have your eyes shut, but I can say the same for pretty much every device or RE ever made for Reason. Asking Propellerheads on FB for a magnifying glass didn't help though.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:55 am

quincy wrote:Again, you make a good point which I can't dispute.

I've been on here for 15 years and using music software for 25 years probably, so I've spent a small fortune on DAWs and VST in that time. I think the point here, for me, is that the €9 per month may actually save me money if I stop buying and selling VST all the time. It's a terrible habit.

Ah, who am I kidding...it'll never happen!!

Why the hell would you buy a bunch of RE's when you already have VST's? Seems like you are determined to throw away your money!!

fwsuperhero · Post by **fwsuperhero** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:26 am

pdxindy wrote:
quincy wrote:Again, you make a good point which I can't dispute.

I've been on here for 15 years and using music software for 25 years probably, so I've spent a small fortune on DAWs and VST in that time. I think the point here, for me, is that the €9 per month may actually save me money if I stop buying and selling VST all the time. It's a terrible habit.

Ah, who am I kidding...it'll never happen!!
Why the hell would you buy a bunch of RE's when you already have VST's? Seems like you are determined to throw away your money!!

Vsts cant do reason modulation, sidechain or multiple output yet. Their performance is also not very good in the Reason if you compare it to Reaper for example.

quincy · Post by **quincy** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:39 am

pdxindy wrote:
quincy wrote:Again, you make a good point which I can't dispute.

I've been on here for 15 years and using music software for 25 years probably, so I've spent a small fortune on DAWs and VST in that time. I think the point here, for me, is that the €9 per month may actually save me money if I stop buying and selling VST all the time. It's a terrible habit.

Ah, who am I kidding...it'll never happen!!
Why the hell would you buy a bunch of RE's when you already have VST's? Seems like you are determined to throw away your money!!

It's not a like-for-like comparison as I think you perfectly well know!! Better integration with "native" reason devices, the modular patching etc. Of course both have their place and I can mix and match. I don't have to choose one or the other. I'm experimenting with both and I don't have to get rid of my VST because I'm now using Reason.

It's just a bit of fun for me and I'm exploring my options. As I've said already, I don't consider a small outlay on my hobby to be a waste of money.

Anyway, let's keep it friendly

sin night · Post by **sin night** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:15 pm

I'm against the subscription model in most situations.

I think rent/subscription may make sense when any of these conditions are true:
- the item is too much expensive, even in the long time.
- it's something you plan to use for a limited time (a tool for a specific project).
- it's a service for something you "consume", for example an internet connection or films.
- you have access to rent to own model (and you don't have the cash to pay upfront, or you may want to keep enough cash for something else at the same time).

I prefer to own the tools I use, so I can use them forever (well... as long as they don't break!).

If it's something I "own", I can decide when I want to pay at my own pace. I can keep on using it (if it's not broken, of course!), even if there's a new model/upgrade avaible or if the company goes out of business, while I can have problems if I'm tied to a subscription (being unable to pay, being forced to use a newer version which has bugs or is incompatible with my system...).

In case of software, it means that sometimes I have to pay for maintenance (upgrades), but it's not that different from paying for car maintenance. For example I know that every year (or every few years) I will have to pay for a daw upgrade, but I can decide to delay that expense if I want to, or I may decide not to upgrade if I disagree with the direction taken by the company (and I'm still able to use what I paid for, at least for a reasonable amount of time).

If it's something you care for on a medium-long term, I think buying is the best choice.

Reason RE subscription model - actually a pretty good idea?!