Now I Understand Why People Hate iLok

[Mushy Mushy]

OP, if you don't mind I have a question also.

I repartitioned by SSD and didn't even consider the iLok implications. Anyway now my DAW's cannot find Soundtoys however they appear perfectly fine in iLok license manger (ie, installed and active on the correct PC).

Or to rephrase my question how can Ableton/Cubase not find them when the license manager can?

Thoughts?

The license manager doesnt find plugins, it finds activations for plugins ie its not telling you what it sees on your system, its telling what you've got licenses for.

Hmmmm, ok that's helpful info.

How do I retell Ableton/Cubase they're active then?

[whyterabbyt]

The license manager doesnt find plugins, it finds activations for plugins ie its not telling you what it sees on your system, its telling what you've got licenses for.

Hmmmm, ok that's helpful info.

How do I retell Ableton/Cubase they're active then?

If they're installed, not sure; all Ive ever needed to do is force a plugin rescan, so that, however that needs to be done.

(and if they're not installed, then, erm, obvious

edit : A thought; if your host has a 'blacklist' for failed plugins, you may need to work out how to delete that.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I had no problem with it for a while, but then all of a sudden it just would not run, no matter what I did. Support couldn't help either. Sold Falcon because of this and no longer use Eventide or Soundtoys because of it. Didn't use them much so I was ok abandoning ilok.

[Compyfox]

Okay - now FINALLY we're getting somewhere, and I guess I have (moderate bad) news for you.

Actually, to answer your question, I am on Windows 7 64 bit and have been for almost 5 years now with very few problems.

Question outright:
Did you install the so called "Windows 7 Convenience Rollup" service pack?
Also, which version of iLok Manager are you currently using?

Cubase 7 has been buggy at times from day one of installing it. I get VSTs lock ups on my Axion Keyboard because Cubase doesn't know how to handle more than one plugin at a time without going ape shit. I'm not sorry I got it because I find it very intuitive and very easy to use and the workflow allows me to finish things lightning fast. But I'm good for at least one restart every day. That's just the way it is.

Could be an install hiccup.

The internal bridge for 32 bit plugins has never worked right and JBridge isn't much better. So I have abandoned almost all 32 bit plugs. And since I need 64 bit plugs for almost every track I do, there is no point installing the 32 bit Cubase version. So I do without. In the grand scheme of things, I don't really care.

jBridge works with 98% of the plugins I use - and you know I'm a Cubase user.

Again, my ONLY point of this whole thread was that I get why people dislike iLok. It CAN be annoying. I will no longer judge people who say they won't use it. I get it. If they can do without it, power to them. I can't. I need these plugs. Do I wish they didn't use iLok? Absolutely. But they do and so I deal with it.

The iLok "hate" is always blown way out of proportion IMO.

Yes, there were severe hiccups (a couple of times), but most of the time, the "reports" are either down to user error, or some element missing that is only known at the very, very end of the conversation and hate-train.



So my questions again:
Did you install the Windows 7 "Convenience Rollup" Service Pack?
What iLok Driver version are you on (can be checked via the manager?
What did you do PRIOR to the issue? Did you install "Windows patches"? If so, manually or as whole bundle?


We barely got ANY information - so our magic crystal balls are already at their capabilities.

[Synthman2000]

I accept any and every copy protection type, then you do not have to compromise on using second rate software.

[Teksonik]

I accept any and every copy protection type, then you do not have to compromise on using second rate software.

Do not confuse the quality of any software with the copy protection method it uses. That's a mistake a lot of users (and developers) make......

[Teksonik]

At any rate I question the wisdom in creating any thread with the words "Hate" and "iLok" in the title. The outcome is inevitable.......

[Ingonator]

FWIW within the last hour i just purchased Eventide Backhole which is on sale now and it is iLok protected. Works nicely here, both the plugin and protection.

As mentioned above by myself and others iLok problems for me in the past were mostly solved by having to re-start the PACE process (without a Windows restart).

Besides that i am using Windows 10 64-bit with latest updates and usually also have the iLok manager and my main hosts at the latest versions.

If people keep on using more or less "old " stuff like e.g. Windows 7 and Cubase 7 problems are expected to appear sooner or later.

[Synthman2000]

I accept any and every copy protection type, then you do not have to compromise on using second rate software.

Do not confuse the quality of any software with the copy protection method it uses. That's a mistake a lot of users (and developers) make......

I did not make that mistake. You are right many make the mistake of not using the best software that is available for any given task because it uses a protection method they dislike.

[wagtunes]

So my questions again:
Did you install the Windows 7 "Convenience Rollup" Service Pack?

The only thing I have is auto updates enabled. When Windows says there's an update, it does it automatically. I don't control the process. So if the above is part of the regular Windows updates, it's quite possible it's installed. But I have no way of knowing.

What iLok Driver version are you on (can be checked via the manager?

I think it's 3.17 and they're currently up to 4.1.1. The message says it's not a required update so I've ignored it.

What did you do PRIOR to the issue? Did you install "Windows patches"? If so, manually or as whole bundle?

I did nothing out of the ordinary prior to the issue. I only let auto updates install on their own.

Please let me make this clear again, in the 5 years I've been using iLok protected products I'd say that this problem has happened maybe a dozen times. This is the first time it's happened two days straight. It's not a chronic problem but it is an ongoing issue and something that I need to be aware of. Now that I know how to easily fix it, it isn't as big a deal. Thanks to the members for that. Again, the purpose of this thread was not to get members to help me with my problem, though I am grateful for that, but simply to acknowledge that I understand the iLok hate. It can be very annoying when you've just opened up 15 different windows of browsers and software and have to shut everything down. Now that I don't have to do that anymore (I am assuming the above fixes will work) I don't really care as much. Annoying, yes. But certainly manageable under those circumstances.

But again, I get why people don't like iLok. I would prefer if I didn't have to use it. Same as I prefer if I didn't have to use Waves Central or Arturia.

Just give me a dll like U-he does, thank you.

[Compyfox]

NOW we're talking....

The only thing I have is auto updates enabled. When Windows says there's an update, it does it automatically. I don't control the process. So if the above is part of the regular Windows updates, it's quite possible it's installed. But I have no way of knowing.

Two either one of the following two things:
a) turn off "auto updates" and get "Update Packs" (in Germany, that'd be via WinFuture)
b) keep "auto updates" on, but still get a full update pack

Keep in mind - "Update Packs" do NOT equal the "Convenience Roll Up" Service Pack. To my knowledge, this was never addressed as an "update". You have to do that yourself.

What iLok Driver version are you on (can be checked via the manager?

I think it's 3.17 and they're currently up to 4.1.1. The message says it's not a required update so I've ignored it.

v3.1.4 to v3.1.7 needs(!) the Windows 7 Convenience Roll up. So if there is an issue with Windows update, messing with the "needed update packs" that v3.1.3+ desires, then you found your culprit.

According to Pace, the "Convenience Rollup" has been made obsolete with v4.1.1. You have v3.1.7 installed (in fact, this is the version that apparently "removed" that need again). So something else is afoot here.

I highly advice you to either completely uninstall the drivers and reinstall them. Or completely uninstall, reboot and then go v4.

I did nothing out of the ordinary prior to the issue. I only let auto updates install on their own.

Again, my assumption is now that Windows "auto updated" messed something up.

Please let me make this clear again, in the 5 years I've been using iLok protected products I'd say that this problem has happened maybe a dozen times. This is the first time it's happened two days straight. It's not a chronic problem but it is an ongoing issue and something that I need to be aware of. Now that I know how to easily fix it, it isn't as big a deal. Thanks to the members for that.

If this happened more than once, then I DEFINITELY think your OS is wonky.

But again, I get why people don't like iLok. I would prefer if I didn't have to use it. Same as I prefer if I didn't have to use Waves Central or Arturia.

So the hate comes from things that are beyond the control of a user (aka OS auto updates messing with drivers) or plain user error and "jumping on the most recent version - just because".

Yet there is always the USB CP to blame in the first place...

Alright, got you loud and clear...

[noiseboyuk]

Please let me make this clear again, in the 5 years I've been using iLok protected products I'd say that this problem has happened maybe a dozen times. This is the first time it's happened two days straight. It's not a chronic problem but it is an ongoing issue and something that I need to be aware of. Now that I know how to easily fix it, it isn't as big a deal. Thanks to the members for that. Again, the purpose of this thread was not to get members to help me with my problem, though I am grateful for that, but simply to acknowledge that I understand the iLok hate. It can be very annoying when you've just opened up 15 different windows of browsers and software and have to shut everything down. Now that I don't have to do that anymore (I am assuming the above fixes will work) I don't really care as much. Annoying, yes. But certainly manageable under those circumstances.

You don't have to reply to this Wag, but why not take a moment to reflect on this. What is more productive to the community as a whole here - a) letting everyone know you've now changed your position and understand why people hate iLok, starting a new thread to announce this important news to the world, or b) start a thread (or add to an existing one) to say "hey I'm having some really annoying iLok issues out of the blue, can anyone help?" With (a) you get to rage against the world, make a lot of noise and gain... I'm not sure what exactly, approval perhaps that you've now bonded with some others who don't like something. With (b), you've solved your problem, and others will remember to come back and see what worked for you and maybe help them too if they have similar experiences. As it happens you started with (a) and wound up with (b), but as you've made clear you weren't after solutions in the first place and indeed seem almost slightly exasperated with them cluttering up your original intentions, which I do find quite perplexing.

Genuinely, no need to respond, let's not have another 20 pages on Wags role at KVR, but just thought this could be quite a useful experience if you want it to be.

[Dewdman42]

I'm not a fan of dongles. I avoid any and all software that forces me to use them. Recently I made an exception for Vienna Ensemble Pro because there isn't any alternative and I needed it. But VEP uses eLicensor, rather the ilok. But here is the interesting thing, eLicensor is designed in a way such that it will not ever have the kinds of problems Wag is reporting about. Once your license is on the dongle, its supposed to work without EVER requiring any kind of connection to the internet, etc. Now here comes the scary part... Recently it came to my attention that VSL has a policy that if you lose your dongle or it is stolen, then you basically lost the product. They think of it like a piece of jewelry. If you lose it, you lose it. They do allow their customers to rebuy the product at a 50% discount if that ever happens. WTF? So basically if you plunk down $5000 for VSL Cube full edition and you ever lose your dongle...its gonna cost another $2500 to get it back again. If you damage the dongle or if the dongle just fails because its a piece of electronics that just might do that, they require you to send the dongle to them and then they charge $20 PER PRODUCT LICENSE to restore your licenses to the new dongle.

ok so what is the point of all this? The point is that iLok is able to avoid the problem VSL is handling, by having a system that does rely a bit on connecting to the internet and is a more elaborate system in some ways. The downside is, it might have a problem one day like Wag has been experiencing and then you can't work. eLicensor gets around that by making the dongle more fool proof and garantee's that once the license on the dongle, it will just always work...but the downside is that if you lose or damage your dongle, you will be totally SOL..it might as well be your grandmother's wedding ring.

Personally I can't stand dongles.. I don't think the manufactures are saving any money by using them, in fact I think they are losing money because it costs them more money I don't personally think they are gaining any customers over what they would get if they just used the same copy protection everyone else is using. And they massively inconvenience customers with them. Any time I have a choice between a product that uses a dongle and an competing product without a dongle, I'm using the one without a dongle. VSL was the first in a long time I was willing to make an exception. I was thinking about picking up their Cube Full product, but given their current policy I probably will not.

[BBFG#]

In dealing with the company over the years, the thing I hate most about them is their ease at lying right to your face.
It's as if the WilKie was a really a group.

Of course, the rest of the usual problems still apply.

On the iLok controversy, there are basically two camps. Those that have had problems with it and those that haven't yet.

How each decides to deal with it is up to them. But many of us choose to warn wherever and whoever we can that hasn't bought into it yet.

Nice that Wagsy found a work around to level enough annoyance to keep subjecting himself to it.

[fluffy_little_something]

Why would the iLok application make problems all of a sudden? Did you install something?
Does it automatically update in the background? Or do Windows or AV updates interfere with it?

Maybe an Autostart issue? I have such problems with Malwarebytes, sometimes it starts with Windows as expected, sometimes it just doesn't, no idea why

My problem is that there is no affordable alternative to Xpand2.