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Tj Shredder
KVRian
 
775 posts since 6 Jan, 2017, from Outer Space

Postby Tj Shredder; Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:43 pm Re: Do samples kill the *real* electronic music?

To get back on topic, it all boils down to musician ship. Neither punk nor samples nor hip hop could kill music. They had been part of music (now comes a quotable sentence...!:)
There is so much more than four to the floor...
It also seem, that a lot of music consumers can only relate to a single style. But as creative musicians need also creative input, they have to be more diverse in what they feed to their ears or they starve together with their audience without notice...
Its like in food, if you only eat fast food and never cook, you miss out the best... In the end you'll die early without having any fun...
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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
 
25993 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:13 am Re: Do samples kill the *real* electronic music?

Prog musician does punk album in 1975, influences Lydon, shock horror.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadir%27s_Big_Chance
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Straight2Vinyl
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131 posts since 9 Mar, 2017

Postby Straight2Vinyl; Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:53 am Re: Do samples kill the *real* electronic music?

Tj Shredder wrote:
fmr wrote:
Tj Shredder wrote: And music wouldn't even exist without Pythargoras.

Historically wrong, and absurd.


As absurd as thinking HipHop changed the world...; - )
Oh, I forgot /S

Define change the world. If we're talking about the state of music, virtually all music on the radio, for those who listen, is to some degree a hip hop track. Like 80-90 percent. Pop is dominated by hip-hop style production.
If we're talking about cultural impact, punk is not responsible for hip-hop. It was and is black music, despite the fact that us white boys eventually got in on it. Punk was never a major influence in inner cities of the states where hip-hop came from. Funk and soul and before them blues and jazz are the music of that culture and hip-hop was what came next.
Some of what I'm reading here tells me that people think their own genre is somehow superior, or that their own little corner of the world is special. Get over yourselves.
Lastly, Public Enemy and a few others inadvertently had an impact on the industry as a whole as their rather extensive sampling(Bombsquad used an absurd number of samples in a track) was partially responsible for stronger enforcement of sample clearance.
So please drop the arrogance. Your world view seems narrow to say the least.
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Zombie Queen
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4425 posts since 1 Aug, 2005, from Warszawa, Poland

Postby Zombie Queen; Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:06 am Re: Do samples kill the *real* electronic music?

Tj Shredder wrote:Yes, King Crimson, early Genesis, Premiata Furneria Marconi, Gentle Giant, Emerson, Lake & Palmer...
Certainly musically and compositionally to rate way higher than any HipHop. They are on par with classical music in that regard...


Certainly... not. It really depends on who listens. I find mentioned acts fluctuating between irritating and boring, a pain to my ears, and yes I did listen to all mentioned. These ain't anywhere near classical, it's just cheap, plastic, boombastic BS. I will take any hip-hop over those anytime, at least it doesn't pretend to be something deep (mostly), in fact, it mostly doesn't even pretend to be proper music. I can enjoy hip-hop, it's kind of a city folklore music, and there's always something attractive in folk, especially if you are not a part of given folklore. Hip-hop is simple art for simple people. I do appreciate a proper sophisticated music, but it's always good being simple from time to time. I did plenty of bad boombastic prog listening back in a day, I can't stand it nowadays. Now I mostly switch between classical and hip-hop.
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donkey tugger
Boss Lovin' DR
 
4522 posts since 14 Mar, 2002, from the grimness of yorkshire

Postby donkey tugger; Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:11 am Re: Do samples kill the *real* electronic music?

Straight2Vinyl wrote:Lastly, Public Enemy and a few others inadvertently had an impact on the industry as a whole as their rather extensive sampling(Bombsquad used an absurd number of samples in a track) was partially responsible for stronger enforcement of sample clearance.


All the bollocks in this thread aside, this is a very interesting article about how they went about making 'It Takes a Nation of Millions' and, 'Black Steel in the Hour of Chaos', in particular;

https://www.soundonsound.com/people/pub ... sic-tracks

No basslines, no reverb.....
AnX
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2802 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Postby AnX; Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:13 am Re: Do samples kill the *real* electronic music?

Rap is just karaoke really....
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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
 
6991 posts since 13 Jun, 2001, from Somewhere else, on principle

Postby BONES; Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:59 pm Re: Do samples kill the *real* electronic music?

Isn't that true of any band with a vocalist?


whyterabbyt wrote:Prog musician does punk album in 1975, influences Lydon, shock horror.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadir%27s_Big_Chance

I don't see the relevance of this, as Hammill himself acknowledges a range of styles. Most punk artists cite all kinds of influences from the 1960s and 70s, it didn't come about via some big bang.
Straight2Vinyl wrote:Define change the world. If we're talking about the state of music, virtually all music on the radio, for those who listen, is to some degree a hip hop track. Like 80-90 percent. Pop is dominated by hip-hop style production.

Or maybe hip-hop has borrowed it's production techniques from pop music? It has certainly evolved considerably over the last 40 years. And, for the record, I haven't listened to the radio since the mid 1990s, except for sports broadcasts, of course.
If we're talking about cultural impact, punk is not responsible for hip-hop. It was and is black music, despite the fact that us white boys eventually got in on it.

Without the DIY ethic that characterised Punk, Hip-Hop would never have gotten off the ground. Punk tore up the rule book and allowed a diversity in mainstream music the likes of which had never been seen before and will never be seen again. It may not have influenced the music itself but it created the business environment within the industry that allowed hip-hop to thrive.
Punk was never a major influence in inner cities of the states where hip-hop came from.

It didn't have to.
Some of what I'm reading here tells me that people think their own genre is somehow superior, or that their own little corner of the world is special. Get over yourselves.

That certainly seems to be your problem so take your own advice. I lived through all of it, I observed it first-hand. Of the more than 1200 albums I own, fewer than 40 are Punk. It's not really my thing at all but there is simply no denying that none of the music I do like would ever have been made if it wasn't for Punk.
Lastly, Public Enemy and a few others inadvertently had an impact on the industry as a whole as their rather extensive sampling(Bombsquad used an absurd number of samples in a track) was partially responsible for stronger enforcement of sample clearance.

That is one very insignificant aspect of sampling and not at all what I think of when I read the title of this thread. I'm thinking more about amazing libraries of sounds specifically recorded for musicians to use in sampling software, like the stuff Output does, for example.
So please drop the arrogance.

Arrogance is a key ingredient in most forms of rock and I'd have thought utterly indispensable when it comes to hip-hop.
Your world view seems narrow to say the least.

My world view seems narrow? Are you on drugs?
Zombie Queen wrote:it's just cheap, plastic, boombastic BS. I will take any hip-hop over those anytime

Interesting, as I'd classify both that way and I'd suggest hip-hop takes itself at least as seriously as Prog does.
Hip-hop is simple art for simple people. I do appreciate a proper sophisticated music, but it's always good being simple from time to time.

Pretentious much? I couldn't care less how a song was made, if it's a good song it's a good song. I've heard a few good Prog songs over the years but I can honestly say I've never heard a good hip-hip song. Ev-ah.
NOVAkILL 3.0 : Acer Switch5 (Core i5, Win10), Zoom U24, Orion 64 bit, Maschine Mikro, Elektron Analog Keys, Ultranova, Rocket, MicroMonsta
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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
 
6991 posts since 13 Jun, 2001, from Somewhere else, on principle

Postby BONES; Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:13 pm Re: Do samples kill the *real* electronic music?

donkey tugger wrote:All the bollocks in this thread aside, this is a very interesting article about how they went about making 'It Takes a Nation of Millions' and, 'Black Steel in the Hour of Chaos', in particular;
https://www.soundonsound.com/people/pub ... sic-tracks
No basslines, no reverb.....

I find Public Enemy, in particular, to be so pathetic that it's funny. They are possibly the saddest mo-fos to ever walk onto a stage. I used to read album reviews that said you could feel how much they hate you and krap like that but it all came across to me as hilariously camp. I mean, how could you possibly take a man with a big plastic clock around his neck seriously? I always though of them as "The Village Black People", especially if you compared them to the likes of Body Count, who had to move beyond hip-hop to find some real anger, hate and aggression. And look where Ice T ended up, doing a 15 year stretch as a TV cop. Surely I'm not the only one who gets a laugh from the irony in that?
NOVAkILL 3.0 : Acer Switch5 (Core i5, Win10), Zoom U24, Orion 64 bit, Maschine Mikro, Elektron Analog Keys, Ultranova, Rocket, MicroMonsta
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donkey tugger
Boss Lovin' DR
 
4522 posts since 14 Mar, 2002, from the grimness of yorkshire

Postby donkey tugger; Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:12 pm Re: Do samples kill the *real* electronic music?

BONES wrote: I mean, how could you possibly take a man with a big plastic clock around his neck seriously?


Indeed. Perhaps he should instead invest in a rather fetching pair of spectacles?

ryans.jpg
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pottering
KVRian
 
602 posts since 14 Dec, 2014

Postby pottering; Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:40 pm Re: Do samples kill the *real* electronic music?

donkey tugger wrote:All the bollocks in this thread aside, this is a very interesting article about how they went about making 'It Takes a Nation of Millions' and, 'Black Steel in the Hour of Chaos', in particular;

https://www.soundonsound.com/people/pub ... sic-tracks

No basslines, no reverb.....


Very interesting, thanks for the link!
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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
 
25993 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:12 am Re: Do samples kill the *real* electronic music?

BONES wrote:
whyterabbyt wrote:Prog musician does punk album in 1975, influences Lydon, shock horror.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadir%27s_Big_Chance

I don't see the relevance of this, as Hammill himself acknowledges a range of styles. Most punk artists cite all kinds of influences from the 1960s and 70s, it didn't come about via some big bang.


whoooosh.
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tl
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464 posts since 7 May, 2002, from ... , germany

Postby tl; Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:44 am Re: Do samples kill the *real* electronic music?

Rhizome...
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Grizzellda
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400 posts since 21 Feb, 2015

Postby Grizzellda; Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:40 am Re: Do samples kill the *real* electronic music?

>>whyterabbyt, thanks for putting those clips up earlier, I enjoyed them. Interesting stuff, but I am not quite ready to call it "easy listening"! :hihi: :lol: :hihi: :lol:
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thecontrolcentre
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22610 posts since 27 Jul, 2005, from the wilds of wanny

Postby thecontrolcentre; Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:21 am Re: Do samples kill the *real* electronic music?

donkey tugger wrote:
BONES wrote: I mean, how could you possibly take a man with a big plastic clock around his neck seriously?


Indeed. Perhaps he should instead invest in a rather fetching pair of spectacles?

ryans.jpg

Oh, the irony :hihi:
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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
 
6991 posts since 13 Jun, 2001, from Somewhere else, on principle

Postby BONES; Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:50 pm Re: Do samples kill the *real* electronic music?

Right, because just like sunglasses, everyone walks around with a big plastic clock around their neck. I'd also point out that is one of at least four different pairs of Oakleys you'll find me wearing in press photos, it's hardly definitive in the way the clock is. You'll rarely, if ever, see a picture of that idiot without a clock around his neck. And you do understand that Donks was just havin' a laugh, right?
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