KVR Audio

FathomSynth · Post by **FathomSynth** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:51 am

A number of ppl have mentioned SFZ for export so I will make sure it can do that.

The sampler will have some advanced features, such as automatically detecting the sample's tonal frequency and pixelizing all the single cycles in the sample, then providing easy methods to define multiple fetch points for the cycles from the sample, morphing between them and randomizing them. Basically it will provide an editing interface to use the entire sample as one big wave table.

Yeah, the thread is old, I've been meaning to start an official Seaweed Audio company thread like everyone else does, but this thread just turned into the official thread. I'm not sure I want to change it since everyone knows where it is now. I wonder if there is a size limit.

In regard to initializing the wave draw bezier editor, currently there is no specific interface button for that, but you can do it effectively pretty quickly by just hitting Waves and loading up "LFO All Flat".

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:35 pm

Having your own sub-forum would be probably the best way.

That way you can have as many different threads as needed by the users, each thread discussing only one subject such as a question on a specific point about a product (and it would allow to have discussion threads specific to each instrument, therefore avoid all discussions in a unique thread where one absolutely can't find any more what is related specifically to a product). It would prevent the visitors to have the useless and boring (and dissuading) need to browse hundreds of pages to find an information hidden in a page. It would also allow you to make announcements (new projects, updates, deals, polls about features in project, call to beta-testers and discussions with them only about the beta-tests, etc.) on dedicated threads which are always placed at the top of your personal sub-forum whatever their ages. In case of sudden pollution by trolls or by bad minds you could also manage your own moderation (with possible help from an official KVR moderator of course) without having to wait for the almost immediate disponibility of a KVR moderator. Etc.

You would have all to win, be sure.

magicmusic · Post by **magicmusic** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:41 pm

FathomSynth wrote:A number of ppl have mentioned SFZ for export so I will make sure it can do that.

I mean sfz support for input, to be able to can load existing sounds in. it is only need that the mapping of the samples can load correct in (root key, vel range), so no work need do, to simulate the adsr lfo or other settings

magicmusic · Post by **magicmusic** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:45 pm

Distorted Horizon wrote:
magicmusic wrote:this thread is very old
Yeah.. A whole year old

I mean with very old that many time have past and it is maybe possible to say concrete which features the sampler have

jmg8 · Post by **jmg8** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:36 pm

Dear Mr Fathom (I don't know your name yet, sorry)
would you consider developing a resonating OSC at some point in the future?

There is one in Falcon called "Pluck" and AAS have one called "Cromaphone"

The idea is that there is an "exciter" like a mallet, drumstick, finger, noise or even a sample.
This excites the "resonator" which can be a drum head, guitar string, wooden block, metal tube etc.

They are very flexible and can make sounds like guitars, marimbas, drums, pluck synths, tonal percussion etc.

It would be a great addition to Fathom when used in combination with the other sound generators.

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:51 am

jmg8 wrote:Dear Mr Fathom (I don't know your name yet, sorry)
would you consider developing a resonating OSC at some point in the future?

There is one in Falcon called "Pluck" and AAS have one called "Cromaphone"

The idea is that there is an "exciter" like a mallet, drumstick, finger, noise or even a sample.
This excites the "resonator" which can be a drum head, guitar string, wooden block, metal tube etc.

They are very flexible and can make sounds like guitars, marimbas, drums, pluck synths, tonal percussion etc.

It would be a great addition to Fathom when used in combination with the other sound generators.

Very good suggestion !

Yes, Chromaphone is a reference in that kind of thing.

cron · Post by **cron** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:46 am

For me, I don't particularly want a Kontakt beater. I'd rather see something creative rather than a workhorse. Kontakt can be extremely creative of course, but as a one-man team I guess you need to be a little more selective about where you focus your energies.

Something modular like Fathom synth could be interesting. A few sampler 'cores' (classic, granular, spectral...) with inlets for all the controls and outlets for driving envelope followers, outlets for perhaps a few esoteric things like the unusual analysis types in Madrona Labs' Virta and Unfiltered Audio's Zip to use as control signals (as well as 'simple' modules to post-process those signals, limit ranges or add/multiply and the like). Sidechain inputs to drive envelope followers from outside the plug (again, perhaps with those esoteric analysis modes.) A ton of modulators like LFOs etc to plug in and out, FM and other blends between engines... Perhaps it could even output MIDI CCs to drive other synths and effects (like taking the analysis signals in Virta/Zip and allowing them to control things outside the plug.) And, of course, having audio rate and control signals treated as equals that can be patched anywhere.

I don't think I've seen anything in the sampler world that takes the modular approach, and perhaps it could be an interesting avenue to explore.

Greenstorm33 · Post by **Greenstorm33** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:07 am

FathomSynth wrote: The sampler will have some advanced features, such as automatically detecting the sample's tonal frequency and pixelizing all the single cycles in the sample, then providing easy methods to define multiple fetch points for the cycles from the sample, morphing between them and randomizing them. Basically it will provide an editing interface to use the entire sample as one big wave table.

This sounds really cool! Definitely looking forward to it

jmg8 · Post by **jmg8** » Thu May 03, 2018 11:53 am

BlackWinny wrote: What I would really like to find in VST/AU plugin is neither an arpeggiator nor yet another sampler (there are already so many of them) but something really new in the world of plugins : an organ in the type of those modern Technics or Yamaha or Roland or Elka double manual very modern organs. They all are twice organs and synths, and their sounds are absolutely awesome, far, far, far from the old "hammond" sounds.

Did you check out UVI's Retro Organ Suite?

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Thu May 03, 2018 1:44 pm

Yes.

Their Retro Organ Suite is nothing else than a collection of common organs. Their Hammer B is simply samples of a Hammond B3, their EX III is simply samples of a Korg CX-3, their Super VX is simply samples of a Vox Continental, their Retrocorda is simply samples of a Philips Philicorda, their GT2500 is simply samples of an Eminent 2500, their Combo K is simply samples of miscellaneous common combo organs, their Yammy C10 is simply samples of a Yamaha YC-10 combo organ. All these things are very old things (except the Korg CX-3, produced in 1979, and the Eminent 2500).

But above all... all this collection is simply sample-based. For organs (as well as for string-synths) I largely prefer real synthesis as all the "organs and string-synths" lovers. For two major reasons:

- phase synchronization of the oscillators (it is impossible with the samples)

- and paraphony (it is also impossible with the samples)

For these two reasons, sample-based plugins will never be able to reproduce correctly organs neither string-synths.

And I already have excellent organs (not only plugins, I also have several hardware units, two of them being even rather heavy furniture, I play not only flutes, violins, guitars, pianos, and synths since the 70's but also organs). And in plugins I have excellent organs which are not sample-based but really synthesized... and which are also paraphonic. As the two combos organs made by Martinic, and as GSi VB3 (which also emulates combo organs), and as Linplug Organ 3, and others. And all in 64-bit. Why would I suggest yet a new one ? No, it would be stupid. What I suggest is totally different, and for everybody, synth lovers as well as organ lovers.

I think that many of the contributors of this thread have totally missed what I suggest. What I suggest is not at all that kind of organs, it is what is named "organ-synths", meaning complex units having two or three keyboards and which are of course able to reproduce the common organs... but which are also real synthesizers. Like the most recent (since the GX-1, not before) Yamaha Electone models, like the Eminent P275 or 310U, like the Elka X705 or X707 models, like the Roland Atelier models, etc.

It is a huge mistake to think these models simply as "organs". A huge mistake ! Almost all of them are synths much more than organs. If I take simply the Yamaha Electone history you have:

the GX-1 that you see as an organ because it featured 3 keyboards while it was... the first polyphonic synthesizer made by Yamaha !!!
The Electone F series (declined in FC/FE/FS/FX) featured the FM synthesis as well as did the DX7... but the Electone series used several keyboards in a same unit !
The Electone H series (declined in FS and FX) featured the AWM synthesis... plus the FM synthesis ! And using not less than 16 operators ! I let you remember that the DX7 featured only 6 operators !
The Electone E series (declined in only EL) featured the same two synthesis as the H series just above... and added several filters (HPF, resonant LPF, BPF) and several enhanced expression methods !
And I don't talk about the most modern series produced since around 2000 and 2010 !

Many of these series also have effects as chorus, phaser, reverb, etc. and several of them have also an arpeggiator in addition to the common rhythm accompaniment section, and can provide different types of modulations between the oscillators, and have LFOs, and noise sources, and can drive the oscillators section of the third keyboard as a slave from the oscillators of the second keyboard used as master of modulations between their oscillators (a thing simply undoable on a single keyboard synth, I saw it only in XILS-4 where you have two XILS-3 side by side, one being able to modulate the other one), etc.

It is a strong mistake to watch them as common "organs". They are not at all simple organs... they are true synths ! And not simple synths, believe me !

Do you want me to do also the history of the Roland Atelier models ? You wouldn't believe what you would read !

Many of these ultra-modern "multi-manual synths" (let's stop to name them organ-synths if it troubles you) use several synthesis (long samples with round-robins, single-cycle samples, Subtractive, FM, PM, PD, AM, AWM... in a same unit !

Watch an Eminent 2000 in a studio full of synths :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yanKBH-wf8

Watch the panel and listen to the classic sounds of an ORLA:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uFhEzXH5rY

Watch the panel and listen to a example of what can do a Wersi Spectra :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiS1shIyHxM

Some of them also exist as expanders :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe0k8cXE_D0

We are not at all in the world of Hammond organs nor in the world of combo organs. We are in the real world of synths !

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Thu May 03, 2018 1:46 pm

All these instruments are nothing else than simply the future of the synths !

jmg8 · Post by **jmg8** » Thu May 03, 2018 2:22 pm

Are you shouting at me!?

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Thu May 03, 2018 3:01 pm

jmg8 wrote:Are you shouting at me!?

I never shout at anybody.

FathomSynth · Post by **FathomSynth** » Thu May 03, 2018 4:33 pm

BlackWinny, Thanks for posting the organ info above and the amazing videos.

The Eminent is indeed a monster and sounds incredible.

You put a lot of effort into collecting the videos and they show an entire world of sound in the organ realm that I think a lot of people are entirely unaware of. I can hear what you are talking about. They are not just samples of acoustic organs but are truly synths in the sense that they are generating their own waveforms.

It's funny, the Chopin Etude "Winter Wind" at the start of the last video I actually use to play.

Also, what is "paraphonic" ?

I will be building 2.11 today so it should be out tomorrow.

jmg8 · Post by **jmg8** » Thu May 03, 2018 6:01 pm

Any comment on this?

jmg8 wrote:Dear Mr Fathom (I don't know your name yet, sorry)
would you consider developing a resonating OSC at some point in the future?

There is one in Falcon called "Pluck" and AAS have one called "Cromaphone"

The idea is that there is an "exciter" like a mallet, drumstick, finger, noise or even a sample.
This excites the "resonator" which can be a drum head, guitar string, wooden block, metal tube etc.

They are very flexible and can make sounds like guitars, marimbas, drums, pluck synths, tonal percussion etc.

It would be a great addition to Fathom when used in combination with the other sound generators.

Fathom Synth Development Thread