Liine's Lemur Daemon - troubleshooting connection issues ?

[alec.tron]

Heya,
so after using Lemur on an iPad 3 and Ableton Live on Windows 10 64bit for close to 2 years on the same machine without any problems, apart from the very odd Liine/Lemur setup & documentation initially, I recently installed & had to troubleshoot an issue with drivers/firmware for an Icon Platform M+ to get it to run.
I then switched off/deactivated LoopMidi drivers as well as loopBe (which I never used but installed back then when setting it up to try both options) while troubleshooting the driver issues with the Platform M+ (turns out this is known, and Icon has a new firmware [v1.07 which is not publicly available and they passed on the new firmware after a few days of semi useful support back & forth which got rid of the USB connection issues that was plague-ing the device from the get go under windows 10 64-bit...] mentioning it here just in case anyone else has the issue as I could not find anything in the interwebs about it...) - I then re-activated loopMidi & loopBe drivers after I had the Platform M work as expected mostly.
So far so good.
A few days later, I then wanted to use the iPad Lemur for a project again, and suddenly the Lemur Daemon could not connect to the iPad (3) fully anymore... and there is hardly any ways to trouble shoot what might be wrong... so after trying Liine support a week ago, with no reply whatsoever other than the automated 'we've received your support request', as well as trying their forums (the account got activated, but I can not post to their forum, and a PM to Liine staff on the forum has been deleted... very odd altogether...), maybe someone here has an idea what might be wrong, or how to get Liine to actually support their product and give some feedback to what looks to be an issue for a few people....

The symptoms:
- In the Lemur Daemon - Local Port and Connection columns are coloured red for every created port...
i.e. exactly this issue here, with no reply from Liine either:
http://support.liine.net/customer/porta ... idi-at-all
- OSC data is transferred fine and PULL in Ableton Live fully switches templates as expected via OSC signals
- but, no midi data arrives in live nor does any pass through LoopMidi, rendering Lemur & PULL useless as is
- I can however force it to create a midi feedback loop by assigning In & Out to the same port, so there is some communication, and only then can I see LoopMidi receive data flow...

If anyone has any ideas how to troubleshoot or even solve this, please sing out...! It's driving me a bit nuts.

Also, is this behaviour normal for Liine's support ?

Churs.
c.

[whyterabbyt]

i'd suggest you start by fully uninstalling, your virtual midi ports, lemur daemon, etc.... and the icon drivers again in case they're causing a conflict.

then reinstall the bits you need again, one at a time, testing as you go.

[alec.tron]

Hey whyterabbyt,
that's exactly what I did already. Only to end up with the exact same situation... twice... and even without the Platform M in the mix, I now have this problem with Liine's Lemur Daemon.
Also, seeing other people having the exact same problem with the Lemur Daemon a few days apart gave me a hunch it might be related to one of Windows' 10's lovely automatic & forced updates/installs happening in the background... but, there's no means to troubleshoot any of this.
How common are midi/OSC driver conflicts and how would one trouble shoot them more effectively (other than randomly de-/installing things) ?

Another far fetched hunch, the drivers & software for the Icon Platform had a rather hacky/half baked feel to them... so could they have left anything relating to MCU (or HUI, which in theory should not be in use at all) protocol behind now still having an affect on the system/midi communications and/or drivers ?

Thanks for the input though!

Churs.
c.

[whyterabbyt]

Hey whyterabbyt,
that's exactly what I did already. Only to end up with the exact same situation... twice... and even without the Platform M in the mix, I now have this problem with Liine's Lemur Daemon.
Also, seeing other people having the exact same problem with the Lemur Daemon a few days apart gave me a hunch it might be related to one of Windows' 10's lovely automatic & forced updates/installs happening in the background... but, there's no means to troubleshoot any of this.

Yeah, that's a possibility Im afraid. Hopefully if that's the case, though, and its caused a widespread issue, the Lemur stuff would be updated eventually...

How common are midi/OSC driver conflicts and how would one trouble shoot them more effectively (other than randomly de-/installing things) ?

There's no real way to do this as an end-user, Im afraid, except by systematically (not randomly) testing each step and the various combinations. If I was trying to resolve something like this, I'd probably even want to have a 'spare' system, so that I could test each step as independently as possible. Sorry.

Another far fetched hunch, the drivers & software for the Icon Platform had a rather hacky/half baked feel to them... so could they have left anything relating to MCU (or HUI, which in theory should not be in use at all) protocol behind now still having an affect on the system/midi communications and/or drivers ?

The protocol shouldnt make a difference, IMO; protocols just define the format of data being sent, not how or where its sent.

[alec.tron]

A house of cards I tells you.... HOUSE OF CARDS...!
argh.
The whole point of the Lemur as well as Platform M+ is/was to spend less time being a computer technician and more having fun making music in an intuitive way and having direct haptic access to virtual things.
Oh well...
Thanks for the input again...!
c.

[alec.tron]

I guess after 2 weeks it's fair enough to assume that Liine's Lemur for iOS as well as their Lemur Daemon have become abandonware since I bought it around 18 months ago and now Liine people have not reacted to support tickets through the official system, as well as ignored emails and forum PMs, which have all been met with silence since the 22nd of September.
What a bummer.
c.

[stutter]

I have the same issue, no solution yet I'm afraid. If you want to post in the Lemur forum you first have to post in the introductions forum - when they were still paying attention they introduced this to reduce noise from bots. A few months ago Midi Kinetics sent an email out suggesting they'd seen a beta of Lemur 6, but I don't expect to hear any communication from liine until it maybe appears one day.

As far as I can tell my issue is related to the Lemur Daemon, since the editor can still communicate and OSC is still sent and received - these are sent on different ports (see here). I've tried troubleshooting the specific UDP port without success. I can also still use Lemur with laptop but not desktop, despite both being near-current Win 10, otherwise same setup. I think it is some issue with the OS causing issue with the Lemur Daemon, since for me all other links in the setup have been tested and work otherwise.

[lnikj]

I guess after 2 weeks it's fair enough to assume that Liine's Lemur for iOS as well as their Lemur Daemon have become abandonware since I bought it around 18 months ago and now Liine people have not reacted to support tickets through the official system, as well as ignored emails and forum PMs, which have all been met with silence since the 22nd of September.
What a bummer.
c.

I fear this could be the case. I imagine revenue has always been an issue with Lemur.

I don't know how big they are but back in the day selling half a dozen devices might have paid somebody's wages for the year but there isn't a lot of money in IOS. Mind you, I wonder how many hardware units they sold.

I don't know what gui toolkit the editor uses but it makes me think of using X11 twenty years ago.

[alec.tron]

Thanks for chiming in guys!
At least this seems to be a fairly wide spread issue... if there's 5 plus people reporting this within a matter of weeks (counting the 3 on Liine's Q&A that has been ignored too)...
And thanks for the Liine forum tip about bot restrictions - I tried to do just that, i.e. register & post there... but I could not post at all and I couldn;t see any info about the lock-off... and a PM to one of the Liine guys was met with silence, or even an ignore and delete, as the message I sent I sent disappeared from outbox as well as sent items...
Oh well, fingers crossed we'll get an update for this very expensive (in terms of iOS app prices... ) virtual paperweight it has become now.
c.

[iPlogger]

I finally got around to testing this out. I'm on Win10, loopMIDI, iPad Mini 2 on iOS 8. I am going over wi-fi. Everything worked for me. I had to re-read the manual and re-watch a YouTube video to get it working again with Ableton Live, but I eventually got it working. I'm not using OSC.

Are you able to at least sync the Windows Lemur app with Lemur on your iPad? I would focus first on getting things working between the Windows app and the iPad. I know you have uninstalled/reinstalled things. Did that leave the port lists empty? Remove all ports from loopMIDI and Lemur daemon and start adding again from scratch.

It's possible the M+ driver is using a conflicting port. Some devs hard code their port use to something like 8080 and then there are conflicts when something else wants to use it. If this is the issue, there may be an INI file one of the devs use where you can change the port it uses. I realize this may not be the issue at all but I'm just trying to think of any possibility and things I've seen in the past.

[stutter]

I have found a solution to my problem of lemur (daemon) not connecting to virtual midi ports. It is to use studiomux in place of the lemur daemon. More info here, which would be the best place to post questions if this is relevant to you.

[alec.tron]

Hey,
thanks for the heads up!
If I can get my Liine forum account to get activated so I can post, I will add to the thread there. I still find Liine's behaviour of not replying to anything on this issue with their commercial product very odd, seeing that there's a fair few people with this problem...
Churs.
c.

[Sivaself]

I have found a solution to my problem of lemur (daemon) not connecting to virtual midi ports. It is to use studiomux in place of the lemur daemon. More info here, which would be the best place to post questions if this is relevant to you.

I just started to have issues recently too. But I’m on a 12.9 ipad with iOS 10. I never use anything other than my iPad to connect to my MKS 7 via the template, and my X18. Suddenly there was no communication, after things being fine for two years! But I’d not done any updates to bring this about... Can you repost the Studiomux link, as it’s down? By the way, the app is still for sale.

[JoseC.]

So, I am migrating my setup to a new PC with Windows 10, and now Lemur and the Daemon and the editor do not detect it other. Any info about any special installation steps for Windows 10? I checked the firewall and the programs are not blocked, so I have run out of ideas.

[Jace-BeOS]

Well this thread totally kills my curiosity in both Lemur and OSC. Sigh.