Do samples kill the *real* electronic music?

[ghettosynth]

I mean, how could you possibly take a man with a big plastic clock around his neck seriously?

Indeed. Perhaps he should instead invest in a rather fetching pair of spectacles?

ryans.jpg

Oh, the irony

LOL!

[vurt]

but I can honestly say I've never heard a good hip-hip song. Ev-ah.

not one? you have to be shitting me?
plenty of old nwa and pe stuff is amazing.
nas, jay z and dangermouse, not to mention de la soul, tone loc, doug e fresh?
none of these mean anything to you?

you poor poor man

[jancivil]

Now I mostly switch between classical and hip-hop.

That seems a proper conclusion to the crap what proceeds it. Pretentious as f**k-all.

EDIT: 'pretentious' is kind of a crap word for this. I mean the post was scarce on ideas or musical acuity and long on attitude (and the kind of crap which has infected music journalism forever, rock journos expanding bullshit into practically an art form) and stuff which is merely going on about your personal displeasure, with nothing before having done a thing towards a musical analysis.

EDIT 2: wait, no, pretentious is good for this specifically. I would say that dismissing King Crimson et al in favor of that quality of talk appears to pretend you know something and I don't think you do, not after that. And this isn't my first impression by any means.

[jancivil]

I heard some not-terrible funk which may have been "impacted" by hip hop in that it went nowhere, I mean sticking to a 2-bar pattern (played rather than a "loop") for its duration which is far too long considering the lack of interest) over and over and not much of a melody decorating it. It grooved, it had that humanity of a person with a LITTLE bit of freedom doing their part (bass player).
(If one is moved to argue the point, I have points of comparison in funk music for a lot of years which will tend to demonstrate what I mean well enough. The statement while probably not being true for all examples is rhetoric I can stand behind.).

This is a dead parrot, hip hop. I think the interesting things in a rap are rhythmic (or we can say 'metric') and there's very little to be found, and it's not about to get better anytime soon.

It's like most of the worst of pop music, it can be manufactured like cookies and pooted forth for people to buy it. And what they're persuaded to buy hasn't a thing to do with music.

[ghettosynth]

but I can honestly say I've never heard a good hip-hip song. Ev-ah.

not one? you have to be shitting me?
plenty of old nwa and pe stuff is amazing.
nas, jay z and dangermouse, not to mention de la soul, tone loc, doug e fresh?
none of these mean anything to you?

you poor poor man

Right !?! I'd be hard pressed to think of any widespread genre that I couldn't find something that I thought was both good and that I enjoyed. Sure, there are really hyper-focused genres that I would have to work hard to find something that I liked. Even in that context though, i think that to say that there's nothing "good" can only be hyperbole.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl-pjb7y3y0

[jancivil]

[hip-hop] changed music

Ok, here is someone talking about someone changing music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBVvUQXRY7k

Music, that is for me a bigger subject, deeper, needs quite more consideration (and here historical background) than 'chart music' or 'pop'. Pop is not likely to produce much that is going to last. So if you're going to go on about 'impact', it needs that consideration.

For instance what chart hit of say 1913 can we talk with any gravity about today? Or what in that chart hit which has been so memorable shall we speak about, musically? What new ground was broken. Confer Le Sacre du Printemps, Igor Stravinsky, 1913.

But appropriating simple basslines (Under Pressure) and not doing ANYTHING in terms of your usual musical parameters Melody and Harmony (rhythm/meter is dubious, it's not like Iambic Pentameter was being superseded exactly, is it) was radical. And hip hop rap wasn't even scoring a first here, either.

rad·i·cal
ˈradək(ə)l/Submit
adjective
1.
(especially of change or action) relating to or affecting the fundamental nature of something; far-reaching or thorough.
"a radical overhaul of the existing regulatory framework"
synonyms: thoroughgoing, thorough, complete, total, comprehensive, exhaustive, sweeping, far-reaching, wide-ranging, extensive, across the board, profound, major, stringent, rigorous
"radical reform"

Unmusical music _is_ radical in the literal sense. So it's a perfectly cromulent usage. Whether this was far-reaching will be another consideration. But the assertion was 'it changed music' and it bloody didn't, sorry. bubble burst and so on...

[Frantz]

Digable Planets? Meh.

This is more like it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Skg4PFmIVw

[ghettosynth]

Digable Planets? Meh.

LOL! I'm not the least bit interested in having a "which hip hop is better" conversation. I was simply pointing out something that i like and questioning the assertion that one can't find something in hip hop that they respect in some way or like.

Keep in mind, I'm not a hip hop fan really. I don't keep up with it, I don't have a history with it, and I don't really follow it very much. Much of what is considered good, or even groundbreaking, I don't/didn't like at all. For example, that was probably the first time that I've heard the track that you posted, and I only listened to about ten seconds of it. I don't think that it has aged as well as Digable Planets. Perhaps it has among fans though, but I wouldn't know. While I don't follow it, I do frequently listen to chill hop or trip hop.

So, point being, if you want to argue, find someone who cares a bit more. I was simply addressing Bone's hyperbole. I think that even for non-fans, you'd pretty much have to be living under a rock to have not heard some hip hop that you like. There you go, Digable Planets is hip hop that I like and I'm not particularly a fan of hip hop.

Looking at my Discogs (which is just my vinyl) I have a total of five hip hop records to my name and one of them is a DJ Rectangle battle record that I just used to practice my crappy scratching skills with back in the day and the rest aren't what you'd call mainstream hip hop in any way.

I do have this in my CD collection though...although I can't remember the last time that I actually listened to it...What can I say, I liked New Jack Swing quite a bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92gHq1s6G-c

[BONES]

not one? you have to be shitting me?

Not one. Not ever.

plenty of old nwa and pe stuff is amazing.
nas, jay z and dangermouse, not to mention de la soul, tone loc, doug e fresh?
none of these mean anything to you?

Reading those name just makes me remember why I stopped listening to the radio in the 1990s. It's all just nursery rhymes for children who know a few naughty words and it lacks any kind of depth or interest for me. There is no energy or aggression in any of it, either. I remember going to an alternative club night where they'd occasionally play a bit of NWA or Public Enemy and it always killed the flow of the night dead. When you hear it in between Ministry or Frontline Assembly and The Sisters of Mercy or Rammstein, it just sounds hollow and weak.

It's like most of the worst of pop music, it can be manufactured like cookies and pooted forth for people to buy it. And what they're persuaded to buy hasn't a thing to do with music.

^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^

I'd be hard pressed to think of any widespread genre that I couldn't find something that I thought was both good and that I enjoyed.

I'm the opposite. I have to put in a lot of effort to find music that I enjoy. 99% of the stuff I hear, especially stuff I hear when I'm out and about, leaves me cold. It would probably be more than 30 years since I heard a song on the radio that I'd rate as a good song. It's probably even longer since I walked into a shop and they were playing something that wasn't awful.

I was simply pointing out something that i like and questioning the assertion that one can't find something in hip hop that they respect in some way or like.

There is very little in most genres that I can respect but none that is further from my respect than hip-hop. It's beyond the lowest common denominator, more like the lowest of the low.

[ghettosynth]

It's like most of the worst of pop music, it can be manufactured like cookies and pooted forth for people to buy it. And what they're persuaded to buy hasn't a thing to do with music.

^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^

That's irony right there.

It would probably be more than 30 years since I heard a song on the radio that I'd rate as a good song. It's probably even longer since I walked into a shop and they were playing something that wasn't awful.

My grandmother says shit like that as well.

[jancivil]

I used to like to say "There are but two kinds of music. One of them happens when musicians are doing their job right." Now there are three! One of them is when they can't be bothered to use musicians at all.

[ghettosynth]

I used to like to say "There are but two kinds of music. One of them happens when musicians are doing their job right." Now there are three! One of them is when they can't be bothered to use musicians at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAYGJmYKrI4

[jancivil]

And music wouldn't even exist without Pythargoras.

Historically wrong, and absurd.

As absurd as thinking HipHop changed the world...; - )
Oh, I forgot /S

Define change the world. If we're talking about the state of music, virtually all music on the radio, for those who listen, is to some degree a hip hop track. Like 80-90 percent. Pop is dominated by hip-hop style production.
So please drop the arrogance. Your world view seems narrow to say the least.

If we're talking about MUSIC, to limit it to what you have here is f**king vapid.

YOU may drop the arrogance. SO ironic to see 'narrow world view' stated by the same person who just narrowed MUSIC down to what they "listen to" on the RADIO. To POP, FFS. Jesus K REIST. Whose asshole do you live inside?

I hear the shit all the time. It changes nothing about the world except to make it a shittier place, to dumb peoples down in order to make a buck.

[ghettosynth]

""Hip-hop is the single greatest revolution in the U.S. pop charts by far," said Armand M. Leroi, 50, a professor of evolutionary developmental biology at Imperial College London and co-author of the study. "That surprised me. Being a victim of boomer ideology, I would have said it was 1964."

The finding challenges mainstream perceptions that the 1960s' British Invasion marked pop's most significant development of the last half-century."

http://graphics.latimes.com/music-evolu ... p-hop-rap/

[ghettosynth]

"With the next millennium fast approaching, we are witnessing a musical and cultural phenomenon-a collage-producing, jump-cutting, mix and match blending of American urban music-jazz and hip-hop. Not that this strikes a lot of folks as good news. Some see hip-hop and jazz as an unholy alliance, the trivialization-maybe even vulgarization-of jazz, that great American art form.

But musicians who share the same bloodlines often see the genre-melding as a positive development."

https://jazztimes.com/features/where-ja ... s-hip-hop/

"A generation of jazz musicians has grown up with hip-hop in its blood. The result is the thrilling reinvention of a genre that has been guilty of fixating on its past"


"As the Los Angeles saxophonist Kamasi Washington puts it: “We’ve now got a whole generation of jazz musicians who have been brought up with hip-hop. We’ve grown up alongside rappers and DJs, we’ve heard this music all our life. We are as fluent in J Dilla and Dr Dre as we are in Mingus and Coltrane.”

The influence cuts both ways – from jazz to hip-hop and back again. Jazz musicians have always improvised over different rhythms but, if you go to a jazz gig these days, you’re likely to hear a lot of musicians playing over the “slugging” beat popularised by the hip-hop producer J Dilla. It’s that wonky, slightly drunken-sounding funk beat that seems to have joined the arsenal of rhythms used by jazz musicians, alongside such mainstays as swing, bossa nova and the jazz waltz. “It’s basically the sound of someone sampling a funk beat on an Akai MPC sampler and editing it wrong,” says Rob Turner, drummer in the Mercury-nominated Manchester jazz trio Go Go Penguin. “Instead of starting the sample at the ‘transient’ – the start of the beat – it starts fractionally after that point. So the snare drums and hi-hats are all in slightly the wrong place. It sounds sluggish and disjointed and slightly screwed up, but it also sounds quite cool. And it’s something that young jazz drummers have worked out how to play. Go around music colleges and you’ll hear student drummers dividing up a bar into countless subdivisions and working how to ‘slug’ fluently – somewhere between ‘swung’ crotchets and ‘straight’ crotchets."

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/ ... new-groove


"Robert Glasper, a 26-year-old pianist, has just debuted on Blue Note Records with Canvas. He is also in Mos Def's touring band, and appears (with Rosenwinkel, as it happens) on Live at the Renaissance, a forthcoming album by Q-Tip. Glasper, too, is a huge fan of Jay Dee. "I'm not like a cat who says, 'Oh, hip-hop is popular so let me put some of that in my music,' " Glasper told me. Referring to his peers, he added, "We are children of the hip-hop generation who play jazz. Just like back in the day, cats were the children of the Motown generation, and they played soul music." In the opening to "Canvas," Glasper sets up a slow, hypnotic groove. The structure—a pithy chord progression cycling in an off-kilter rhythm—alludes to contemporary hip-hop and "neo-soul.""


http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/musi ... phone.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y93PxLMWK8k