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Caine123
KVRAF
 
5216 posts since 5 Aug, 2009

Postby Caine123; Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:27 pm Compressor Types - their usage?

i know i made a topic already with comps but it is sorting out my list, so this one is a overall comp type list question and where to use which comp type (subjectively!) im interested in different opinions! then i will test myself if i got redundant plugins which i like more soundwise.

LA-2A (Optical)
- Vocals
- Guitars

LA-3A (Optical)
- Vocals
-Guitars

1176 (FET) – For Bite & Punch
- Drums
- Bass
- Guitars

dbx 160 (VCA)
- Drums
- Bass

Fairchild 670 (Tube Comp)
- Drum Bus

SSL G Bus (VCA Mix Glue Comp)
- Master (Glue)
- Drum Bus

API 2500 Bus (VCA Mix Glue Comp)
- Master (Glue)
- Drum Bus
DAW FL Studio Audio Interface Focusrite Scarlett 2nd Gen 18i20 CPU Intel i7-7700K 4.20 GHz, RAM 32 GB Dual-Channel DDR4 @2400MHz Corsair Vengeance. MB Asus Prime Z270-K, GPU Gainward 1070 GTX GS 8GB NT Be Quiet DP 550W OS Win10 64Bit
jochicago
KVRist
 
121 posts since 25 Feb, 2018

Postby jochicago; Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:21 pm Re: Compressor Types - their usage?

Maybe I'm too new to this stuff, but isn't that the wrong question in 2018?

For instance, you are bringing up the LA2A from the 1960s. Do you have one lying around, or do you honestly believe most good sound engineers died off before the 2000s so you are stuck having to use gear made in the 60s if you want quality audio? (I'm not being flippant, in the guitar world lots of people believe innovation ended in the 60s).

The LA2A doesn't have any compressor settings, you are basically stuck with the defacto wiring. Shouldn't we (all of us mixing ITB) be more concerned about getting our hands on excellent modern compressors with rich controls, and then learning those?

I feel that if you are mixing with plugins, why not reach for Kotelnikov or MJUC, and have richer control over attack, delay, knee, ratio, timber, drive, etc.

Perhaps the questions we ask ourselves about compressors in 2018 should be in the vein of: What kind of knee do I want on rock male vocals?
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DuX
KVRAF
 
3634 posts since 14 Mar, 2002, from Underworld

Postby DuX; Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:33 pm Re: Compressor Types - their usage?

That's some interesting devil's advocating, jochicago. :tu:

But I think the poster is interesting in "classic mixing". Or maybe getting good results quicker. ;)

Theoretically, you can emulate any of these classical compressors with a nice, very flexible compressor like ReaComp, indeed.
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
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rod_zero
KVRAF
 
2832 posts since 28 Jan, 2011, from MEXICO

Postby rod_zero; Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:30 pm Re: Compressor Types - their usage?

I too prefer a single compressor with various features that can achieve any type of compressor (PRoC2, Presswerk, Compassion) than emulations of specific gear.
dedication to flying
Elektronisch
KVRAF
 
2083 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Postby Elektronisch; Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:01 pm Re: Compressor Types - their usage?

I sometimes use NI VC 2A on synth sounds, leads.
jochicago
KVRist
 
121 posts since 25 Feb, 2018

Postby jochicago; Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:16 pm Re: Compressor Types - their usage?

DuX wrote:But I think the poster is interesting in "classic mixing". Or maybe getting good results quicker. ;)

Theoretically, you can emulate any of these classical compressors with a nice, very flexible compressor like ReaComp, indeed.


Not wanting to derail, just want to add to that point about getting quick results with a flexible compressor. I like the Scheps Omni. You get 3 flavors of compression side-by-side (VCA, FET, OPT) so you can hear the difference they make on your track with a single click:

Image

Doesn't have knee control, but offers powerful side-chain tools. Also comes as a bundle with other modules so you can add color with the included saturator.

If a genie wanted to grant me a pristine vintage hardware LA2A but in exchange I had to give up the Scheps Omni, I would laugh him off, back into his bottle.
Caine123
KVRAF
 
5216 posts since 5 Aug, 2009

Postby Caine123; Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:20 am Re: Compressor Types - their usage?

Very interesting replies guys! Im a bit shocked how those replies came in a positive way because just google and check youtube. So many people tell u "this compressor is known to be great for vocals. This for mix glue" etc. I thought also on kvr people reply like that :D

I have to admit that i recently boight fabfilter c2 as i really love their guis etc. While learning it i wondered what and why are the comp settings different with clean, pinchy etc why does it have these options when you have all controls like knee etc?

Then i checked my list and wonder and will try later today e.g. what is with a ssl g mix bus comp differebt from a stabdard comp abd try to recreate it with fabfilter c2.

If i could replicate all those with c2 or even dont need to replicate and even have more options why should i keep the rest and why do even othees do too?
DAW FL Studio Audio Interface Focusrite Scarlett 2nd Gen 18i20 CPU Intel i7-7700K 4.20 GHz, RAM 32 GB Dual-Channel DDR4 @2400MHz Corsair Vengeance. MB Asus Prime Z270-K, GPU Gainward 1070 GTX GS 8GB NT Be Quiet DP 550W OS Win10 64Bit
Elektronisch
KVRAF
 
2083 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Postby Elektronisch; Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:21 am Re: Compressor Types - their usage?

Caine123 wrote:Very interesting replies guys! Im a bit shocked how those replies came in a positive way because just google and check youtube. So many people tell u "this compressor is known to be great for vocals. This for mix glue" etc. I thought also on kvr people reply like that :D


Well from my position, first thing i am a musician, music producer and when it comes to music, really there are no rules how and what to use if the end result is something that sounds good :)

"So many people tell u "this compressor is known to be great for vocals." I see those as suggestive things, like it was just proven to work on that material, but it doesnt mean it cant work on anything else :)
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DJ Warmonger
KVRAF
 
2712 posts since 7 Jun, 2012, from Warsaw

Postby DJ Warmonger; Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:25 am Re: Compressor Types - their usage?

this one is a overall comp type list question and where to use which comp type

But can you explain it?
http://djwarmonger.wordpress.com/
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)
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Burillo
KVRAF
 
2830 posts since 15 Nov, 2006, from Hell

Postby Burillo; Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:43 am Re: Compressor Types - their usage?

i treat them like "presets". if someone says LA2A is "good for vocals", that just means that, absent of LA2A and using a "flexible compressor", that person would've set it up to sound similarly to how LA2A sounds. there's nothing inherent to LA2A or SSL Bus comp that makes it sound "better" on this or that material, it's just that it's set up in a particular way (or is limited to a particular set of settings, depending on your perspective) that people usually use for this or that sound source.

so basically, saying "use 1176 on snare" is really a fancy way of saying "fast attack/release settings tend to sound good on snare". once you get into that mindset, it doesn't really matter which one you use, as long as you understand what it's doing, whether it's a "preset" compressor like LA2A, or a "flexible" compressor set to sound like LA2A. that is, the thought process should be "if you want fast attack/release, you grab a 1176", not "this is a snare, so i should use 1176 emulation because this studio bigwig does".

of course, there's whole "saturation" thing as well, but let's not go there :)
From Russia with love
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
12626 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:08 am Re: Compressor Types - their usage?

Since we're on this subject, I'm going to throw my hat into the ring of the "WTF is the difference between all these compressors" mindset because, quite honestly, I don't get it.

I understand the basics of compression, finally, more or less. A compressor makes the softer passages louder and the louder passages softer so that the levels are more even across and thus less dynamic range, depending on your compressor settings.

So since all compressors essentially work the same way (unless I'm missing something) what is TRULY the difference? Or is it all just marketing hype?
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Burillo
KVRAF
 
2830 posts since 15 Nov, 2006, from Hell

Postby Burillo; Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:22 am Re: Compressor Types - their usage?

wagtunes wrote:I understand the basics of compression, finally, more or less. A compressor makes the softer passages louder and the louder passages softer

so, in other words, you still don't understand compression :D

compressor makes louder passages softer, and leaves softer ones untouched. so, everything gets quieter. you then do "makeup gain" to bring things that are softer, to the same level they were before, but since the difference between "softer" and "louder" is now less (because compressor, err, compressed it), the passages that were softer, are now "louder".

wagtunes wrote:So since all compressors essentially work the same way (unless I'm missing something) what is TRULY the difference? Or is it all just marketing hype?

in the grand scheme of things, not much. a compressor will generally sound like a compressor, give or take. but there may be many subtle differences, such as:
1) compressor knee (compressor starts compressing earlier but not in full force)
2) attack/release shape (how it sounds while compressing)
3) program dependency (some compressors may react to various sound sources differently)
4) lots of other small things

if you have Klanghelm DC8C 2, you can experiment with all of these and hear the difference for yourself.
From Russia with love
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
12626 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:03 am Re: Compressor Types - their usage?

Burillo wrote:
wagtunes wrote:I understand the basics of compression, finally, more or less. A compressor makes the softer passages louder and the louder passages softer

so, in other words, you still don't understand compression :D

compressor makes louder passages softer, and leaves softer ones untouched. so, everything gets quieter. you then do "makeup gain" to bring things that are softer, to the same level they were before, but since the difference between "softer" and "louder" is now less (because compressor, err, compressed it), the passages that were softer, are now "louder".

wagtunes wrote:So since all compressors essentially work the same way (unless I'm missing something) what is TRULY the difference? Or is it all just marketing hype?

in the grand scheme of things, not much. a compressor will generally sound like a compressor, give or take. but there may be many subtle differences, such as:
1) compressor knee (compressor starts compressing earlier but not in full force)
2) attack/release shape (how it sounds while compressing)
3) program dependency (some compressors may react to various sound sources differently)
4) lots of other small things

if you have Klanghelm DC8C 2, you can experiment with all of these and hear the difference for yourself.


Well, then I'm using my Fabfilter multi band compressor all wrong. What I do with each band (depending on the source material) does not match your description, at least not exactly. Now it's possible that I'm simply not expressing myself properly, terminology wise, but I do know what a compressor does when I use it the way I use it. And it most certainly doesn't leave soft passages untouched. Now, maybe that's the makeup gain you're referring to.

Regardless, when outside of multi band versus single band across, I'm just not hearing the big difference between what each compressor does and I have quite a number of them. And I don't use any one particular compressor for one single thing unless I absolutely know I need a multi band compressor because of a sound having highs and lows. But all the LA compressors, it's all the same to me. I don't hear anything that I can definitively say is a big difference in sound.

I'm just glad that I can finally hear what a compressor actually does to a sound at all. Some of them, depending on the settings, are so subtle that they hardly make any difference at all.

I do know that I prefer soft knee over hard knee settings for those compressors that have them.

The only real difference I find in compressors is work flow. How easy or hard each one is to use. There, I find tons of difference. I find Fabfilter's to be the easiest to use. I find this true for all their plugins, which is why I use them more than any other. Whereas I find Waves stuff really clunky to use. Izotope, somewhere in between.

But sound wise? Damned if I can tell them apart in a mix.
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Burillo
KVRAF
 
2830 posts since 15 Nov, 2006, from Hell

Postby Burillo; Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:36 am Re: Compressor Types - their usage?

wagtunes wrote:Well, then I'm using my Fabfilter multi band compressor all wrong. What I do with each band (depending on the source material) does not match your description, at least not exactly. Now it's possible that I'm simply not expressing myself properly, terminology wise, but I do know what a compressor does when I use it the way I use it. And it most certainly doesn't leave soft passages untouched. Now, maybe that's the makeup gain you're referring to.

well, first of all, multiband compressor works differently because it compresses multiple bands (duh!). meaning, it's more akin to dynamic equalizer than a generic "compressor".

second of all, it's possible that Fabfilter has automatic gain compensation - i never used it, so i wouldn't know. Klanghelm MJUC, for example, does have gain compensation, and thus does the "makeup gain" stage for you - but it doesn't mean it's not there, it just means you personally don't have to do it.

and finally, "untouched" depends on the threshold. if you set it low enough, everything will get touched by compression. if you set it high but also set a giant knee, everything will get touched by compression as well. but generally speaking, a compressor set up to compress will only touch things that are loud, and leave the quiet stuff alone. the "compressor makes things louder" part comes from makeup gain, not from process of compression. compressor makes everything quiet, and you make it loud again by using makeup gain.

wagtunes wrote:But sound wise? Damned if I can tell them apart in a mix.

that's fair enough. if compressors are similarly set up, hardly anyone can :)
From Russia with love
sjm
KVRAF
 
1571 posts since 17 Apr, 2004

Postby sjm; Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:00 am Re: Compressor Types - their usage?

1176 then la2a is very common on vox.
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