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Caine123
KVRAF
 
5047 posts since 5 Aug, 2009

Postby Caine123; Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:36 am Re: The Mangle (SoundGuru), is it still alive ?

BlackWinny wrote:
Caine123 wrote:I hate devs who just disappear. No matter how well a plugin is.

They may have a perfectly legitimate reason to disappear.

Health for example among may others.

If you developed products being a one-man company and suddenly had a strong issue with your health... would you like to be criticized and hated ?

No.

It is the same for everyone.

Nobody can't know in advance what the future reserves to us.


no of course not!
but i would make a statement not to show the issues but a warning like, this is no longer developed, no support etc. it's still online and he gets paid.
and this is since months. i hope he wasnt kidnapped or something similar! this would of course be another issue. but maybe! being able to make a short notice is JUST FAIR!

if i pay money for something i just expect fairness if things are not overharsh!
DAW FL Studio Audio Interface Focusrite Scarlett 2nd Gen 18i20 CPU Intel i7-7700K 4.20 GHz, RAM 32 GB Dual-Channel DDR4 @2400MHz Corsair Vengeance. MB Asus Prime Z270-K, GPU Gainward 1070 GTX GS 8GB NT Be Quiet DP 550W OS Win10 64Bit
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BlackWinny
KVRAF
 
3376 posts since 17 Jun, 2013, from very close to Paris, France

Postby BlackWinny; Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:12 am Re: The Mangle (SoundGuru), is it still alive ?

Caine123 wrote:
BlackWinny wrote:
Caine123 wrote:I hate devs who just disappear. No matter how well a plugin is.

They may have a perfectly legitimate reason to disappear.

Health for example among may others.

If you developed products being a one-man company and suddenly had a strong issue with your health... would you like to be criticized and hated ?

No.

It is the same for everyone.

Nobody can't know in advance what the future reserves to us.


no of course not!
but i would make a statement not to show the issues but a warning like, this is no longer developed, no support etc. it's still online and he gets paid.
and this is since months. i hope he wasnt kidnapped or something similar! this would of course be another issue. but maybe! being able to make a short notice is JUST FAIR!

if i pay money for something i just expect fairness if things are not overharsh!


You reason and complain like a 10 years-old kid. Life is not as we want, it is as it is. And there are much worse things in the life than stating on the "fair" or "unfair" attitude from someone who doesn't declare that he won't update any more a product which costs... £20 !

And also... what allows you to decide that his absence is definitive ? Nothing !

When people will stop to complain about such small things we'll start to take more seriously the things which are really grave.

We complain about things which honestly are not grave !

This developer has never announced that he stops the developments! He is absent for a personal legitimate reason (health, or any other thing, we don't have to ask him, it is unrespectful, especially if it is a private and sad reason) since 2016 or 2017, that's all. Does it forbid him to keep on selling his two products? No. Because in the meanwhile, when YOU complain because he is absent, dozens or hundreds other customers enjoy his two products sold for £20 each one. That's all. Have you lost your money without receiving the product? No. Is it your home which is falling down? No. You simply complain because the developer is absent since 2016 or 2017 and CAN'T answer you! It certainly doesn't refuse to answer you... He probably CAN'T! You complain like a teenager and obviously without even trying to understand that there are certainly legitimate reasons for the developer to be unable to reply! Your life doesn't depend at all of this absence of reply. You even probably spend your days to enjoy your music despite this long delay from this developer which is worrying. Ahhh yes... it is worrying. Extremely worrying, isn't it? And him? Isn't he worried to be unable to keep on developing and exchanging with his customers for several months? What if we started to think to the others and their health BEFORE thinking always first to us and our pleasure? Seriously there are things much worse in our lives.
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
11321 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:18 am Re: The Mangle (SoundGuru), is it still alive ?

BlackWinny wrote:
Caine123 wrote:
BlackWinny wrote:
Caine123 wrote:I hate devs who just disappear. No matter how well a plugin is.

They may have a perfectly legitimate reason to disappear.

Health for example among may others.

If you developed products being a one-man company and suddenly had a strong issue with your health... would you like to be criticized and hated ?

No.

It is the same for everyone.

Nobody can't know in advance what the future reserves to us.


no of course not!
but i would make a statement not to show the issues but a warning like, this is no longer developed, no support etc. it's still online and he gets paid.
and this is since months. i hope he wasnt kidnapped or something similar! this would of course be another issue. but maybe! being able to make a short notice is JUST FAIR!

if i pay money for something i just expect fairness if things are not overharsh!


You reason and complain like a 10 years-old kid. Life is not as we want, it is as it is. And there are much worse things in the life than stating on the "fair" or "unfair" attitude from someone who doesn't declare that he won't update any more a product which costs... £20 !

And also... what allows you to decide that his absence is definitive ? Nothing !

When people will stop to complain about such small things we'll start to take more seriously the things which are really grave.

We complain about things which honestly are not grave !

This developer has never announced that he stops the developments! He is absent for a personal legitimate reason (health, or any other thing, we don't have to ask him, it is unrespectful, especially if it is a private and sad reason) since 2016 or 2017, that's all. Does it forbid him to keep on selling his two products? No. Because in the meanwhile, when YOU complain because he is absent, dozens or hundreds other customers enjoy his two products sold for £20 each one. That's all. Have you lost your money without receiving the product? No. Is it your home which is falling down? No. You simply complain because the developer is absent since 2016 or 2017 and CAN'T answer you! It certainly doesn't refuse to answer you... He probably CAN'T! You complain like a teenager and obviously without even trying to understand that there are certainly legitimate reasons for the developer to be unable to reply! Your life doesn't depends at all of this absence of reply. You even probably spend your days to enjoy your music despite this long delay from this developer which is worrying. Ahhh yes... it is worrying. Extremely worrying, isn't it? And him? Isn't he worried to be unable to keep on developing and exchanging with his customer for several months? What if we started to think to the others and their health BEFORE thinking always first to us and our pleasure? Seriously there are things much worse in our lives.


Actually, in the many conversations I had with him while I was helping with testing, he basically told me that he's terrible with communication. Now, if he admits this, you can just imagine how bad it is. I'm sure he's fine. He has a regular job. This is not his livelihood. He does this for fun, more or less. Admittedly, I was upset at the beginning because our "arrangement" never came to be but now, eh, don't really care anymore.

But no, he's certainly capable of responding to emails. He just doesn't out of laziness.
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Guenon
KVRian
 
1427 posts since 17 Jun, 2005

Postby Guenon; Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:38 am Re: The Mangle (SoundGuru), is it still alive ?

wagtunes wrote:But no, he's certainly capable of responding to emails. He just doesn't out of laziness.


That's your interpretation, and a rather unflattering one. Maybe just let it rest? If he himself has acknowledged that he is "bad at communicating", that's fine. As far as interpretations go, there can be a number of underlying causes other than laziness. They can range from various psychological mechanisms that reflect themselves in time management and perhaps excessive procrastination, or some completely different stuff impacting interpersonal activities. As one can pick from a variety of diagnoses including, ehh, "laziness", each of those being equally valid and basically pulled out of a hat... maybe it's better just to accept it at face value, okay, he's bad at communicating, and leave it at that.

Anyway, the product is very good, and as a software artifact it's complete in its current state. If people who pay for it don't receive their download links, that's a problem -- but I think they are receiving them? So yep, it's good to know the software in its current state and the initial download links are the full extent of the deal. If you are expecting something more, as in, sustained development or further support, you'll likely be disappointed. In the end, it's a wonderful granular tool all the same :)
dark water
KVRian
 
798 posts since 2 Jun, 2016

Postby dark water; Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:30 am Re: The Mangle (SoundGuru), is it still alive ?

In fairness, I have a lot of sympathy for Wags' point of view (as I put on another thread pertaining to the Mangle and Tangle at KVR a few months ago), having previously needed to contact the developer and, after five months of waiting for a reply to a technical issue, being forced to file a request via Paypal.
Weirdly, despite the developer's complete refusal to reply to one single polite email (about a 32-bit / 64-but issue), as soon as the PP request went through, he refunded the money immediately, which is generous though a VERY strange way of liaising with people.
(For anyone about to query whether my email went through okay, it was a reply to his own direct email he had sent me upon my purchase of his instrument).

BTW, for anyone thinking that the developer no longer exists etc, he files his company accounts regularly, as evidenced on the web.

Ultimately, the two products work (though I'd trust the Mangle more than Tangle as a finished product).
But you won't have any communication with the developer.
Take it or leave it.

Silly name-calling on this KVR thread between customers means nothing to the developer, and is completely irrelevant to the issue.
timwest
KVRer
 
21 posts since 20 Jan, 2018, from Sydney, Australia

Postby timwest; Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:59 pm Re: The Mangle (SoundGuru), is it still alive ?

Mangle is well and truly alive. In my opinion it is a lot of better than a lot of new granular synthesizers. It basically combines all the most useful and musical features in regards to granular synthesis and puts them into a plugin. I find a lot of granular synthesizers have all these features that just aren't musical. It's frustrating. One thing I love about the mangle is its visual feedback. So useful in terms of shaping and making sounds. It is 100x better than a lot of very expensive complex granular synthesizers imo. Get it. It's a complete plugin. Won't be any updates though by the sounds of it. Who cares, new does not equal better.
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rod_zero
KVRAF
 
2793 posts since 28 Jan, 2011, from MEXICO

Postby rod_zero; Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:06 pm Re: The Mangle (SoundGuru), is it still alive ?

Well at least they are cheap so not mcuh loss when they brake some point down the line with an OS update.

Shame because he really is talented, both products are very interesting and well thought out, he could have got some money in this industry if he had more commitment.
dedication to flying
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Vortifex
KVRian
 
706 posts since 1 Sep, 2016

Postby Vortifex; Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:53 am Re: The Mangle (SoundGuru), is it still alive ?

If he's no longer supporting his software he should at least have the decency to state so on his site (I don't know if that's the case or not, just making a general point). I'd expect that from any developer who is charging for their products.
Caine123
KVRAF
 
5047 posts since 5 Aug, 2009

Postby Caine123; Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:18 am Re: The Mangle (SoundGuru), is it still alive ?

Vortifex wrote:If he's no longer supporting his software he should at least have the decency to state so on his site (I don't know if that's the case or not, just making a general point). I'd expect that from any developer who is charging for their products.


Beware! Some people here defend every shit manner.
DAW FL Studio Audio Interface Focusrite Scarlett 2nd Gen 18i20 CPU Intel i7-7700K 4.20 GHz, RAM 32 GB Dual-Channel DDR4 @2400MHz Corsair Vengeance. MB Asus Prime Z270-K, GPU Gainward 1070 GTX GS 8GB NT Be Quiet DP 550W OS Win10 64Bit
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
11321 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:20 am Re: The Mangle (SoundGuru), is it still alive ?

Vortifex wrote:If he's no longer supporting his software he should at least have the decency to state so on his site (I don't know if that's the case or not, just making a general point). I'd expect that from any developer who is charging for their products.


His support apparently consists of offering refunds upon non delivery and maintaining the site so that purchases can still be made. Outside of that, don't expect updates or responses to emails.

Now, whether or not you consider that "support" is up to each individual customer or prospective customer. I'm kind of in the middle on it.
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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
 
9848 posts since 24 May, 2009, from A galaxy, far far away

Postby el-bo (formerly ebow); Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:42 am Re: The Mangle (SoundGuru), is it still alive ?

Caine123 wrote:
Vortifex wrote:If he's no longer supporting his software he should at least have the decency to state so on his site (I don't know if that's the case or not, just making a general point). I'd expect that from any developer who is charging for their products.


Beware! Some people here defend every shit manner.


It's really nothing more than putting a few pieces of a puzzle together, and adding a touch (or more) of empathy and imagination.

You only have to have communicated with him previously, or seen how he conducts himself when he is around, to know that there is no foul-play. Much more likely is some kind of situation that many creatives suffer i.e depression, anxiety etc.

I'm not speculating to gossip, but to suggest to those who think this is just a scam, that there might be more to the situation.

I do, however, think that a lot might be solved if he could leave some kind of info on the site, à la 'Sold-as-seen' Refunds granted via paypal, upon request
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
11321 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:10 am Re: The Mangle (SoundGuru), is it still alive ?

I can honestly say that in my business dealings with him he is a very nice guy. When he does communicate it's always professionally and courteously. But for whatever the reason (outside of him stating he is bad at communicating) I'm not going to speculate as to why. It could be a ton of reasons.

Kind of sad. He has a great product. Arguably the best of its kind on the market. If he conducted himself like an Urs or a Peter and kept in touch with people and attended to business, he could have very well had a great business. For one thing, he's selling The Mangle way too cheap. I don't think he realizes what he has there. Perhaps though he does this because he doesn't want to be bothered with it. Who knows? I'm tempted to reach out to him again but I know it would probably be a waste of time. If you check, the last time he was even at this forum was May 1, 2017. That's almost a year ago.

Eh, what are you gonna do? Such is life.
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Guenon
KVRian
 
1427 posts since 17 Jun, 2005

Postby Guenon; Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:21 am Re: The Mangle (SoundGuru), is it still alive ?

I agree with you on all of that, Wags.

For the record, I just searched for the version 1.1 email I received for The Mangle some years ago, and for those people who bought Mangle way back and want to download those binaries again (and have archived that same email): if you just click on the links that appear in the mail body when viewing it in gmail for example, the links will have expired. But if you click on the "view this email as html" link, it will redirect to a more recent version of the mail, and the download links work there.
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Vortifex
KVRian
 
706 posts since 1 Sep, 2016

Postby Vortifex; Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:52 am Re: The Mangle (SoundGuru), is it still alive ?

wagtunes wrote:His support apparently consists of offering refunds upon non delivery and maintaining the site so that purchases can still be made. Outside of that, don't expect updates or responses to emails.

Now, whether or not you consider that "support" is up to each individual customer or prospective customer. I'm kind of in the middle on it.


For me, basic qualification for support consists of bug fixes and refunds. When I pay for software I do it with the expectation that the developer is available to receive bug reports and will at least try to fix any issues. I fully appreciate that fate sometimes turns our lives upside down and there will be times when a developer is unable to continue working.

ETA: I bought The Mangle today because it's so damn cool.
ErikH
KVRist
 
454 posts since 16 May, 2012, from Antwerp

Postby ErikH; Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:25 pm Re: The Mangle (SoundGuru), is it still alive ?

I purchased this when it came out and I find that it still works as well as when I paid for it.
Whether I buy a car or a bike or a guitar, I never expect to get updates or upgrades. Same goes for software. If there are serious bugs, I expect them to be taken care of. But that's it.
Tha Mangle still produces the same fascinating sounds as when I first got it.
Windows 7, Cubase 9.5 and some extra plug-ins | Takamine EN-10C and PRS Mira
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