KVR Audio

Daags · Post by **Daags** » Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:00 am

music is based on rules. whether you are making music intuitively, or adhering to the rules you are already aware of, if it sounds musical - it is based on rules. if you are not aware of the rules in play, it does not mean they don't exist.

'rules are meant to be broken' is a useful axiom in so far as it encourages experimentation and, ultimately, the learning of rules.

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:52 am

Rules started as observations. Rules didn't invent music.

Daags · Post by **Daags** » Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:12 am

Aloysius wrote:Rules started as observations. Rules didn't invent music.

No.

The rules simply exist and have existed long before being observed.

I'm loathe to respond to a statement as asinine as 'rules didn't invent music', but if you think music doesn't adhere to rules you are dumber than that statement already makes you appear to be.

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:19 am

Did you get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning? See ... this is what happens when you break the rules. It makes you real grumpy.

herodotus · Post by **herodotus** » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:11 am

Which rules are we talking about?

If you are talking about the rules of classic music theory (e.g. Piston, Rameau, Fux), those rules are broken many times every day by musicians playing anything from Black Metal to Bebop.

If you are talking about the rules of high fidelity audio production, those rules are also broken every day, and have been broken regularly since the Beatles recorded Polythene Pam.

If you are talking about using audio tools according to the manufacturer's intentions, than those rules are also broken as often as not. Autotune wasn't invented to create the Cher effect (or the T-pain effect, or whatever it's called this week), it was created to correct out of tune notes as transparently as possible. Compressors were invented to keep radio equipment from overloading, not to make music sound artificially loud; equalizers were designed to correct the deficient sound quality of early talking pictures, not to boost the high frequencies of Lady Gaga's voice.

If you are talking about the 'rules' followed by whichever producers are making a splash in pop music today, then you aren't talking about real rules at all, but rather, trends.

herodotus · Post by **herodotus** » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:26 pm

Daags wrote:
Aloysius wrote:Rules started as observations. Rules didn't invent music.
No.

The rules simply exist and have existed long before being observed.

I'm loathe to respond to a statement as asinine as 'rules didn't invent music', but if you think music doesn't adhere to rules you are dumber than that statement already makes you appear to be.

Could you give some examples of these rules?

Because the oldest and most primary rules of music involve the use of concordant intervals, which correspond to simple ratios like 1:2, 2:3, and 3:4. And these rules definitely derive from the observations of Pythagoras.

There are all kinds of Musical rules. Some of them are fundamental. Some are traditional. And many have been quite transitory, and forgotten soon after they are established. Only a handful of rules are fundamental, and few working musicians are consciously aware of them.

Cloner · Post by **Cloner** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:05 am

wagtunes wrote:Since studying up on processing various genres (mostly EDM and rock) I keep running into video tutorials that say there are no rules or rules are meant to be broken. Do what you think works.

But is this really true? I mean if you want to produce a basic EDM track that is going to be generally accepted by the public, can you really break the rules or are you just looking for trouble?

I seem to get mixed signals from these tutorials. On the one hand they say "no rules" but then everybody goes and does the same thing. I swear it's almost like if you watched one EDM mix tutorial you've watched them all.

So what's the real truth? Are these people just saying the politically correct thing (because they don't want you to think they're just robots) or do they really mean what they say?

You are missing the entire point of tutorials.
Tutorials are giving you basic knowledge and in most cases the essential techniques
which are defining that music genre.
The same way EDM guy is teaching you how to sidechain, the same way heavy metal guy
is teaching you how to pan 2 guitars left and right to get a bigger, wider sound.
From that point you can go in literally billions of different directions.

That metal guy won't say:"Pan guitars by 100%" or "Pan them by 75%", but he will say:
"Experiment, try things and find out what works best for you".
He gave you basic knowledge, how you will use it - it's up to you.

You obviously don't understand what mixing and producing is, it's true purpose.
People are keep repeating that you should experiment and "break the rules"
because mixing and producing is about constantly facing new challenges and shaping
the sounds in context of music.
Even if you take one kickdrum sample and use it in 50 songs, you'll constantly have to
treat it differently because you'll have different bass sound and songs in different keys
and that bass will start interfering with the kickdrum's frequency range differently
and you'll constantly have to work from zero with it.
Those who don't do it, have no clue what mixing and producing is because they think
that by watching tutorial they can just use that one kick without touching it ever again
in 300 songs.....

Now we come to that EDM part and why that music is plastic, meaningless and horrible, crippled
shit music.
Since when people started using DAW's to create electronic music, EMD shit lords who had no
musical knowledge whatsoever, figured out that working in A minor is the way to go.
A minor and C major scales (C is the default in all DAW's, of course) are "brother and sister"
and you can basically work in A minor without changing the default scale in piano roll.
Why in A minor? Because those shit lords were carrying headphones always and listening music
by using headphones and they figured out that all manufacturers were making headphones
with frequency ranges down to 25-35 Hz but that even shittiest headphones were picking nicely
sub bass of 55Hz which means means if you create a track in A minor that your track would sound nice
on all possible audio devices, from shittiest headphones to stadiums.
At the same time that 55Hz bass was sitting nicely in frequency spectrum next to
kickdrum. It was win-win all over the place.
That's how we ended up with every 2nd or 3rd EDM track being in A minor.
It became a common knowledge to make tracks in A minor.
Completely fake, crippled music which is done to fulfill technology standards first
and then everything else because people are using the same templates over and over and over again.
If we go back to classical music, composers were composing in different keys to set the mood,
the color of their composition and to make certain instruments to shine that have a limited range.
It's a complex thing.
You also can't work in just one key if you have a singer in your band, you constantly need to work
in different keys, to adjust chords to his/her vocal and vocal range.
EDM shit lords don't have vocals and don't give a shit, if they have vocals they'll autotune it,
pitch it, who gives a shit if it sounds unnatural. They have their little EDM shit lord templates
which are fulfilling the industry standards in their DAW's and they'll stick to them no matter what.

I learned about this years and years ago because one of my friends was a trance DJ
and he was also making trance. I stumbled on him by accident and he invited me to a party
where he was DJ-ing and I said I'll come but inside thinking:"I'll go to terrorize my ears for few hours
and when I come back home I'll make 20 hit songs...".
So, I went to that party, got bored after maybe 2 hours, but there was a room on upper floor
and acoustic guitar in the corner. I took that guitar and started jamming and whenever new track started
I realized it's in the key of A. Before that I wasn't even paying attention at all.
2-3 days after that party I went to his place and asked him about that and he explained to me everything,
like:"It's a common knowledge, dude, everyone is doing it".
In a nutshell, my very first tutorial and knowledge I received how to make EDM track was in which key to compose it, literally.
So, if you want to become a brand new superstar EDM shit lord and to make an industry standard track,
the first thing you need to do is to compose it in the key of A.
This was your essential tutorial for EDM.

Tj Shredder · Post by **Tj Shredder** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:14 pm

Daags wrote:
Aloysius wrote:Rules started as observations. Rules didn't invent music.
No.

The rules simply exist and have existed long before being observed.

Rules are a human concept, don't mix it up with physical laws, you cannot break those...; - )

Daags wrote:I'm loathe to respond to a statement as asinine as 'rules didn't invent music', but if you think music doesn't adhere to rules you are dumber than that statement already makes you appear to be.

Sorry, but I bet if you name a single rule, that applies to all music, I will show you music, that does not follow that rule and you would still call it music. (You don't need to like it for that matter...)

el-bo (formerly ebow) · Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:38 pm

Cloner wrote:EDM shit lords

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:17 pm

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Cloner wrote:EDM shit lords

i have their first record, after that they went commercial. and died.

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:19 pm

Daags wrote:
Aloysius wrote:Rules started as observations. Rules didn't invent music.
No.

The rules simply exist and have existed long before being observed.

I'm loathe to respond to a statement as asinine as 'rules didn't invent music', but if you think music doesn't adhere to rules you are dumber than that statement already makes you appear to be.

self expression has rules?
f**k that shit.
you want to follow some arbitrary observations, that's your issue.