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perpetual3
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319 posts since 28 Sep, 2012

Postby perpetual3; Wed May 16, 2018 10:33 am Re: IK MUltimedia UNO Synth

Scotty wrote:Getting back on track it would be great to see the complete Midi spec. Peter any chance that this would be forthcoming? If IK have made most everything tweakable with simple CCs there are all kinds of simple ways to control it with a daw without a dedicated Uno vst... Using Thesys (sugarbytes) could be really interesting. It has a pretty extensive randomizers. Also IF (this is unknown) if we can select a pattern using CCs that would be really useful.



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ghettosynth
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11032 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Postby ghettosynth; Wed May 16, 2018 10:51 am Re: IK MUltimedia UNO Synth

Scotty wrote:Getting back on track it would be great to see the complete Midi spec. Peter any chance that this would be forthcoming? If IK have made most everything tweakable with simple CCs there are all kinds of simple ways to control it with a daw without a dedicated Uno vst... Using Thesys (sugarbytes) could be really interesting. It has a pretty extensive randomizers. Also IF (this is unknown) if we can select a pattern using CCs that would be really useful.


I'm going to second this. I think that probably one of the best use cases for this is as an analog module as opposed to a little groove box.
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BONES
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6995 posts since 13 Jun, 2001, from Somewhere else, on principle

Postby BONES; Wed May 16, 2018 7:31 pm Re: IK MUltimedia UNO Synth

OneOfManyPauls wrote:I've never seen a synth manufacturer count the initial value for the attack as a stage in its own right. Can you cite any examples of manufacturers using this term in that way?

Not off the top of y head but I've used several softsynths that do and it is a standard feature in the SynthEdit envelope module that nobody ever bothers to hook up.
I can cite Dave Smith as referring to their DADSR envelopes on their standalone synths as "five-stage envelopes" - see prophet 12, mopho x4, the new prophet x etc.

I don't see the point, why would you want to delay the envelope in a VCA or even for a mod envelope. I can see that it might have weird uses in a modular but not in a hard wired synth. OTOH, having your envelope trigger from a value other than zero can be very handy. e.g. Set your initial value at -100 and your attack stage suddenly inverts half way through the cycle or set it at 50 and you have instant sound that keeps the part sounding in time with the rest of the arrangement, even if it builds from there to 100%. Very handy for synth strings, brass and things like that.
Sure I can do CCs in a DAW or via hardware sequencer, but this is about using the immediacy of the controls on the UNO without having to map them before hand.[/quote]
Trust me, there will be no immediacy in having to manually adjust 20 parameters at every step. It will be just as easy to record it into sequencer and quantise it to your notes (or record it in quantised).
Not trying to crank out a complete track using the sequencer - just a 16 step, multi-parameter loop that can be chopped up and used elsewhere. I'm thinking more along the lines of percussion loops using the white noise, bp/hp filter modes, and various lfo shapes.

But you'll still need to record them into your DAW and then chop them up somewhere so you may as well do it all in one place.
As for randomization, no - that's not something best suited to a DAW imo. When they're done well, there is a degree of intelligence about the randomization to skew towards usable sounds - not just randomize every parameter between min and max. The sub37 is an example where that is done well.

Orion has a thing called Genetics where you choose two different patches and it randomises the settings between them. Sometimes you get something that sounds half-way between the two but more often you get something quite different. But you always get something usable if you start with two usable presets. I used to use it to create patch banks for my SynthEdit synths and it works really well. I'd make half-a-dozen or so from scratch and then use Genetics to fill the bank out to 64 patches or whatever.
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perpetual3
KVRist
 
319 posts since 28 Sep, 2012

Postby perpetual3; Wed May 16, 2018 7:52 pm Re: IK MUltimedia UNO Synth

Some people like built in sequencers, some people are 100% in the box.

Choices are good.
ghettosynth
KVRAF
 
11032 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Postby ghettosynth; Wed May 16, 2018 8:46 pm Re: IK MUltimedia UNO Synth

BONES wrote:
OneOfManyPauls wrote:I've never seen a synth manufacturer count the initial value for the attack as a stage in its own right. Can you cite any examples of manufacturers using this term in that way?

Not off the top of y head but I've used several softsynths that do and it is a standard feature in the SynthEdit envelope module that nobody ever bothers to hook up.


I don't know which SynthEdit envelope that you're looking at but this is not the case for ADSR or ADSR2 which are both four stage envelopes with no ability to control initial attack level. Moreover, I don't see how having that feature would refute OOMP's point that being able to adjust the level of a "stage" does not make it a new stage.

Also, AFAIK, there's nothing in the SynthEdit docs that refers to either ADSR or ADSR2 as a five stage envelope. ADSR2 says nothing and ADSR refers to the stages as "sections." From the help:

ADSR Module

This module provides a standard 4 section envelope generator.


A stage in an EG refers to a timed window. The timing of the sustain "stage" is determined by how long the key is held down, but there is still a time for that stage. Changing a parameter of an existing stage, e.g, it's initial level, does not make that stage into two stages. I think that you're just confused on the terminology here. That a few other people may also be confused isn't evidence that a confused understanding is correct. Stages can also have level parameters, e.g. the sustain level is obvious, but if you don't have a time window then the note doesn't pass through a different stage (in time).

Although he doesn't give an actual definition of the word, take a look at how Gordon Reid uses the term.

Parts 7 and 8 talk about stages.

https://github.com/micjamking/synth-secrets


I can cite Dave Smith as referring to their DADSR envelopes on their standalone synths as "five-stage envelopes" - see prophet 12, mopho x4, the new prophet x etc.

I don't see the point, why would you want to delay the envelope in a VCA or even for a mod envelope. I can see that it might have weird uses in a modular but not in a hard wired synth.


For a VCA envelope in THIS synth, I agree, there's not much point to delaying it, however, that doesn't negate the other types of five stage envelopes. However, the mod envelope has many uses delayed for the same reasons that one delays LFOs. If you can't think of reasons, perhaps you aren't quite as tuned in to synthesis as you want everyone to believe.

Now, for many other synths, as Gordon Reid discusses above, there can be uses even for a delayed VCA. You don't have to go all the way to modular, you only need the ability to have two separate voices for it to be immediately useful. For example, the Matrix 12 has DADSRs that can be applied to the VCA.

OTOH, having your envelope trigger from a value other than zero can be very handy.


No doubt, that doesn't make it an "envelope stage" though, and even though you are misusing the term, I agree with OOMP, that an experienced hardware designer isn't very likely to do that.
OneOfManyPauls
KVRian
 
748 posts since 17 Jul, 2016, from Wales, UK

Postby OneOfManyPauls; Wed May 16, 2018 11:32 pm Re: IK MUltimedia UNO Synth

@BONES
Re: why DADSRs are useful - ghettosynth nailed it. For mod envelopes it's obvious, and Dave Smith likes to have dual layers on his synths, so delaying the onset of the VCA envelope of one of the layers makes total sense - and is something I regularly use on my DSI synths.

Re: using the UNO multi-parameter sequencer vs DAW - I just plain prefer the workflow that way.

Mouse-painting CCs in a DAW isn't my idea of fun, and mapping a hardware controller to the UNO won't get me anywhere different for how I am talking about using it. As well as my DAW, I also had in mind using this as a kind of analog voice expander for my Octatrack - so I can control the UNO via midi from the Octactrack and record/merge the audio into the Octatrack directly. But I can also instantly slice the UNOs sequencer output and mess around with that in the Octratrack environment too. That sounds like a fun workflow to me. Of course it's not a binary decision - I expect to be using it in a DAW controlled environment too.

Re: patch morphing - that's something I've used with the Soundtower editors for DSI, and the behringer deepmind editor also does it. It's very useful - but obviously more suited to a DAW environment vs a simple synth-based randomize preset parameters option.
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Peter - IK Multimedia
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5774 posts since 20 Oct, 2009

Postby Peter - IK Multimedia; Thu May 17, 2018 7:47 am Re: IK MUltimedia UNO Synth

Scotty wrote:Getting back on track it would be great to see the complete Midi spec. Peter any chance that this would be forthcoming? If IK have made most everything tweakable with simple CCs there are all kinds of simple ways to control it with a daw without a dedicated Uno vst... Using Thesys (sugarbytes) could be really interesting. It has a pretty extensive randomizers. Also IF (this is unknown) if we can select a pattern using CCs that would be really useful.

We do not have the full manual and the MIDI spec available to view on our site at this time but I will let the team know that there are requests. Thank you.
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OneOfManyPauls
KVRian
 
748 posts since 17 Jul, 2016, from Wales, UK

Postby OneOfManyPauls; Thu May 17, 2018 8:16 am Re: IK MUltimedia UNO Synth

New video: How to use UNO Synth analog synthesizer - Part 1

https://youtu.be/uROaDUZq9zU?t=1s
SLiC
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2639 posts since 2 Dec, 2004, from North Wales

Postby SLiC; Thu May 17, 2018 8:31 am Re: IK MUltimedia UNO Synth

Sounds really good, glad I have one on order :-)
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Elektronisch
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2090 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Postby Elektronisch; Fri May 18, 2018 11:31 pm Re: IK MUltimedia UNO Synth

Some people with theyr nitpicks and complains are ridiculous. Its a great sounding synth and only for 199eu so stop complaining about that. Its a great synth for what it is. :)

Like haters gonna hate complainers gonna complain i guess :D
bungle
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1542 posts since 12 Mar, 2004

Postby bungle; Sat May 19, 2018 3:27 pm Re: IK MUltimedia UNO Synth

Elektronisch wrote:Some people with theyr nitpicks and complains are ridiculous. Its a great sounding synth and only for 199eu so stop complaining about that. Its a great synth for what it is. :)

Like haters gonna hate complainers gonna complain i guess :D

Like people who just see shiny shiny gonna tell everybody else what to do like.
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Ryan_IK
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15 posts since 11 Feb, 2015, from Sunrise, FL

Postby Ryan_IK; Tue May 22, 2018 9:44 am Re: IK MUltimedia UNO Synth

If you guys haven't checked out the new audio demos. Check them out here - https://bit.ly/2J1m4ZJ!
Make sure to keep an eye out on the IK Multimedia web site for future news and promotions!

Check out the new UNO Synth Tutorial Series here!

Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter!
Scotty
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1605 posts since 22 Dec, 2002

Postby Scotty; Tue May 22, 2018 2:57 pm Re: IK MUltimedia UNO Synth

Some nice stuff in those examples... I'd still like to hear some high frequency material ... there are not a lot of examples of audio in the upper registers.


Ryan_IK wrote:If you guys haven't checked out the new audio demos. Check them out here - https://bit.ly/2J1m4ZJ!
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BONES
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6995 posts since 13 Jun, 2001, from Somewhere else, on principle

Postby BONES; Tue May 22, 2018 7:07 pm Re: IK MUltimedia UNO Synth

It's all pretty standard stuff, plus we have no idea how much production has gone into making it sound that good. That said, it's definitely a competent little synth for a couple of hundred bucks.
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Peter - IK Multimedia
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5774 posts since 20 Oct, 2009

Postby Peter - IK Multimedia; Tue May 29, 2018 6:59 am Re: IK MUltimedia UNO Synth

Scotty wrote:Some nice stuff in those examples... I'd still like to hear some high frequency material ... there are not a lot of examples of audio in the upper registers.


Ryan_IK wrote:If you guys haven't checked out the new audio demos. Check them out here - https://bit.ly/2J1m4ZJ!

Thanks, I'll relay that to the team. We will also have more tutorial-style videos coming soon.
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