Omnisphere 2.5 Lemur / Midi Designer Pro Template Thread

[noiseboyuk]

(This thread specifically for Lemur templates for Omni 2.5. General discussion on all this Omnisphere 2.5 is here - http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 1&t=504234 )

(EDIT 2/2/19 - with the many Lemur problems I have migrated to Midi Designer Pro, which I've found is approx 10,000x better - https://mididesigner.com/ . Rather than create another thread, thought I'd just expand out this one to encompass all tablet-based templates)

With the advent of Hardware Control in Omnisphere 2.5, it is possible to have control of all of these synth profiles within Lemur, an app available for iOS and Android. This is a cute way to control the new Omni hardware profiles when you don’t actually have the hardware, and IMO could be a great way to evaluate a synth to see if you get on with its architecture before you shell out the hundreds or thousands for the real thing. To be clear – these touchscreen Lemur templates are nowhere near as good as the real thing, but a very long way better than nothing.

I am a Lemur newbie, so fumbling my way, and this thread is intended to be a resource for those who can add to the war effort, avoid duplicated work etc. There will be many, many synths included as the months go by. This is of course also a place for the non-insane to simply download the templates that others have created. I am the opposite of an expert here, so hoping people can improve on my fumbling first efforts.

NB – as I write, Omnisphere 2.5 is in public beta, and those taking part in it are under an NDA. For the moment, I can’t therefore comment on how these templates are actually working out in practice (if at all), but can safely say that I continue to create new templates and refine them so make of that what you will. You can in fact test all the basics without Omnisphere at all, if you have followed a synth’s midi implementation table and use a midi monitoring app such as MIDI Monitor which I’m using on MacOS.

DOWNLOADS

Synths done so far, designed under the Nexus 7 resolution (also used by the Amazon Fire 10 HD)

JU-06 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/5qhtqc8it8ir3 ... .jzml?dl=0
JP-08 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/iblkr3py43vz6 ... .jzml?dl=0 (a revised, tidied version on its way)
VP-03 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/8rr0da40vrk2y ... .jzml?dl=0
JX-03 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/fona60s51dqvm ... .jzml?dl=0
SE-02 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/q4fq0pi8xti0k ... .jzml?dl=0
SH-01 - nearly done
System 8 - nearly done
DSI OB6 - work in progress

General tips on getting going from a newbie

(nb – due warning - Lemur seems to have been abandoned by Liine, so we’re on our own here. Also the Editor app seems to not run on multi-monitor setups so caveat emptor).

Find a guide for setting up basic communications, such as in the manual or on online videos. You’ll need the editor and daemon apps that can be downloaded from the Liine website, for either PC or Mac (you do all the designing side of it on that). Daemon is the communication software, and you’ll be asked to set up channels for incoming and outgoing messages once you have the app running on your tablet. I use Daemon channel 0 for incoming to the tablet app, and 1 for outgoing (which is the important one for us). On a PC, I think you need an additional virtual midi cable such as loopMIDI for this part, but again set up on the same channels.

First set your screen size top right. The basic principles are to drag a fader, knob, switch or whatever onto your screen, and arrange them (we’ll come on to more than one screen in a bit). You can change colours, precise dimensions and positions and a few other things in the bottom left Properties box. Under the Behaviour tab there might be useful things like Grid – if checked this can divide a knob or fader into a specific number of set positions.

For actually sending out a midi message, you do that top left under the Mapping MIDI tab. Typically, set these parameters as:

Object Target – leave default
Target – Midi 1 (this is our outgoing midi channel from the app)
Message – B0 Control Change
Controller – your CC number from the midi implementation table
Value – default
Scale – check the tickbox for 0-127 for a variable, change to 0-x where X is the number of switch positions you have. So a three position switch would be 0-2, or an on/off button 0-1.
Channel - 1

Then you’ll need lots of text boxes for labelling, plus some of the custom buttons are handy for waveform icons and so on (and just set the background / foreground colours the same, and no midi mapping so they’re just dumb graphic boxes and won’t do anything when pushed).

The containers are handy for separating sections. Drag one over the area you want to cover (which will all turn black), and then right click Send To Back, to reveal your controls again. Send to front / back is generally useful for tidying up the labelling.

Simple synths such as the JU-06 or VC-03 all fit ok onto a single page, but more complex ones need multiple tabs. You do this from the project window – highlight Project at the top and click create new interface, and give it a name. You change any existing name by highlighting and changing in properties.


Specific fiddly issues

The vast majority of knobs, buttons and switches adhere to an obvious convention, where you scale the output to 0-127 for anything variable, and 0-x for switches where x is one less than the total number of positions. However, in the hardware designers' infinite wisdom sometimes multi-switches adhere to a different convention, which I first found on the JX-08’s Osc 2’s range. Some kindly soul had put up a more detailed implementation table complete with values, and that provided the magic numbers 0,16,48,80,112,127 – I have a strong feeling these same values might be found in other places too. So if your 0-5 switch isn't working correctly, try this.

It took me an entire morning to figure out how to do this in Lemur, and I finally won. It might not be elegant, but it does seem to work, so here’s how I did it.

1. Click on your control which selects it in the Project Windows (bottom RHS by default). This is a list of all the variables, expressions and so on for your control.
2. You will need to create three new expressions, and one custom midi parameter by clicking the appropriate icons at the bottom of the Project Window pane. Here are the parameters and properties you need to set for a troublesome 6 position switch:

x (already there by default). Do not select to any output, just leave default values.
(this is the value that the raw Lemur control returns, between 0 and 1).
Create a new expression called RL and make it RL={0,0,16,48,80,112,127}
(these are the values that the hardware profile is set up to receive. It needs an extra zero for reasons I don’t understand. I’ve called it RL for short – RangeList).
Create a new expression called Six and make it Six=ceil(x*6)
(this makes a clean integer between 0 and 5, so our on-screen control is outputting sensible numbers for each switch position that we can then convert)
Create a new expression called Out and make it Out=RL[Six]
(this associates a new variable with the output number we want from the RL list – the correct number to pass on to Omnisphere)
Create a new custom midi parameter, set to the controller you need, the output you need and then in the Value box put Out[0]
(this sends out our correct value on the midi CC)

[noiseboyuk]

Think the SE-02 is close to done now, that synth is a (mini)beast:



and



https://www.dropbox.com/s/q4fq0pi8xti0k ... .jzml?dl=0

I think I personally have counted out the SE-02 for hardware though. Quite a lot of obscure controls that I had to check the manual for, and then re-labelled in a more intelligible way. In other words - that thing is so crowded they can't even label it properly. It's a lovely idea to have something that tiny, make such a great sound and be so versatile, but... well, it would work in the world of Downsizing I guess.

An SH-01 is nearly done too. Will be slowing down for a while as The Rest Of Life takes priority for a few days.

[noiseboyuk]

Just looked again at the Dave Smith OB-6 midi table, and this one is beyond me as it stands as it needs NRPN data. I believe that's doable with Lemur, but I'm pretty lost as to how. Tips there greatly appreciated.

[noiseboyuk]

One more post in my so-far solitary thread. I have finally made a breakthrough with NRPN and Lemur, using this resource - https://liine.net/en/community/user-library/view/192/ . It must have been 3 days to actually get it to work for me though. I'll post some tips on how to integrate it into an Omnisphere template if anyone is interested.

I've made a start on the OB-6, I think this one will be really fun when its eventually done, there's lots more modulation options than most of the Roland synths, and should be that classic Oberheim sound.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

One more post in my so-far solitary thread.

Yeah! Sorry about that. For various reasons, I'm not sure whether i can really get my head around setting these up. Furthermore, I don't own Omnisphere 2, so that would make it impossible to test

Either way, I feel bad watching you put in so much effort on your own

[noiseboyuk]

Ha, thanks el-bo for making me feel less lonely! Yeah, not much use without Omni 2.

But weirdly I've quite got into this just for my own sake. I used to code as a teen when I should have been understanding how to talk to girls, and I feel like I'm regressing again - that debugging mania is coming back to me. Also, when you pull it apart, you get a slightly better understanding of the synth's architecture, what the differences are between them etc.

I think the biggest advantage really is going to be as a sort of try-before-you-buy for anyone thinking about a hardware purchase partly or mostly because of the Omni integration. I'm getting a sense that the simpler controllers just aren't going to be worth it, if that's the only use. The more complex the controller, the more experimentation and fun comes into play, which is pretty obvious I guess. Such a shame that the SE-02 isn't that little bit bigger, because that's got a lot going for it. The OB-6 by contrast is physically massive (and very expensive). A smaller audio-free OB-6 controller would be very tempting I think... for my purposes the System 1m is the perfect size I think, but sonically I prefer the more analogue sounding stuff to that.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Ha, thanks el-bo for making me feel less lonely! Yeah, not much use without Omni 2.

But weirdly I've quite got into this just for my own sake. I used to code as a teen when I should have been understanding how to talk to girls, and I feel like I'm regressing again - that debugging mania is coming back to me. Also, when you pull it apart, you get a slightly better understanding of the synth's architecture, what the differences are between them etc.

I think the biggest advantage really is going to be as a sort of try-before-you-buy for anyone thinking about a hardware purchase partly or mostly because of the Omni integration. I'm getting a sense that the simpler controllers just aren't going to be worth it, if that's the only use. The more complex the controller, the more experimentation and fun comes into play, which is pretty obvious I guess. Such a shame that the SE-02 isn't that little bit bigger, because that's got a lot going for it. The OB-6 by contrast is physically massive (and very expensive). A smaller audio-free OB-6 controller would be very tempting I think... for my purposes the System 1m is the perfect size I think, but sonically I prefer the more analogue sounding stuff to that.

Well, the fact you seem to be enjoying the process does make me feel less guilty

i haven't owned hardware since selling my 'ion', but the SE-02 is something I could imagine owning. I specifically would want a small form-factor, though I'm nowhere near being able to afford it.

I'm getting a sense that the simpler controllers just aren't going to be worth it, if that's the only use.

Of course. But that's what's so great about being able to use Lemur instead. We get to choose profiles for gear we either can't afford, or have no physical space to support.

I also think that the complaints from people regarding the whole profile thing being too limited are a little short-sighted. It's true that ultimately you'll only be able to control what the particular profile allows, from the controller/Lemur template itself. But that doesn't stop patches being more complex than can be made with the controllers, which will just fulfil the duties of getting the rough framework of a patch very quickly, with the benefits of that 1:1 hardware control. But there's nothing stopping the sound designer from going into Omnisphere and building on the core foundation of the patch. Of course, those extra bells and whistles will not be accessible from the main controller, but you'll still be able to manipulate the core of the sound, and any other controls could be assigned to other controller options that most of us already have in our arsenal.

[noiseboyuk]

I also think that the complaints from people regarding the whole profile thing being too limited are a little short-sighted. It's true that ultimately you'll only be able to control what the particular profile allows, from the controller/Lemur template itself. But that doesn't stop patches being more complex than can be made with the controllers, which will just fulfil the duties of getting the rough framework of a patch very quickly, with the benefits of that 1:1 hardware control. But there's nothing stopping the sound designer from going into Omnisphere and building on the core foundation of the patch. Of course, those extra bells and whistles will not be accessible from the main controller, but you'll still be able to manipulate the core of the sound, and any other controls could be assigned to other controller options that most of us already have in our arsenal.

I partly agree here. Certainly it would be natural to do the main programming on Lemur / hardware, and then do some embellishments within Omni in areas that are beyond the hardware (modulation in particular I'd have thought... I've gotten so used to the ability to modulate anything with anything else that the very basic options on most vintage synths comes as a shock). But I don't know about a 2nd controller... that feels a bit shark-jumping to me.

Really the main appeal for me of hardware profiles for me is in being forced down the particular tram lines of a particular synth's architecture. It's one thing to have all the vast control Omni does, but actually its not as easy as it seems to restrict yourself unaided into a specific architecture. I'm not very purist about it myself, but limiting choices, especially in an ergonomic way, is a good creative option imo.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I’m reading too! However my interest is more in figuring out how to do the same thing with a physical midi controller. But I’m a few months off from from acquiring hardware controllers again due to traveling but I figure whatever can be done in lemur can hopefully be done with a novation SL.

I don’t think I really care about any of the profiles that I already have good soft synths for. Like I doubt I would spend time on the sh-01 since I have the Roland sh-101 vst, or some of the others but a couple would be fun.

[noiseboyuk]

You should be able to map any of the Roland synth functions to the Novation SL, but unless there's a way of it generating NPRN then you'll be limited just to those. It's just a case of looking up the midi implementation tables really, and choosing the subset of controls you want, and how to put them in a logical place on the fixed hardware so you can find your way around.

I guess the difference between the two approaches comes down to:

Lemur - can broadly reflect the layout of the synth, can match any control any of the synths (except menu-driven controls), can label everything BUT all touchscreen and no physical response

Hardware controller - can't reflect the layout of the synth, can't match every control (except the simplest synths) and some synths can't control at all, can't label everything BUT it is tactile.

One minus for both - and indeed the real hardware - is that there isn't way of getting real time feedback to the controller, so where the controls start won't bear any relation to the sound you start with. Hmm... just had a thought on that, that I think in Lemur you can add an init state, so it could load with the same init as Omni's hardware profile. But it would be a lot of work and wouldn't help if you're tweaking an Omni preset, so I might just forget I had that thought.

[Dewdman42]

In terms of getting Lemur or any physical controller to reflect that current state of Omnisphere, that depends on whether Omnisphere is even sending out those outgoing midi messages to support that. A lot of the physical synths they are supporting do not have visual displays or any way at all to reflect the current position of each knob. In fact, do any of them?

I do think it would require Omnisphere to be doing that, because the same macros that are being used to listen for some controller and turn it perhaps into a complex mapping of values to one or several Omnisphere parameters at the same time..Omnispheres would need to have similar macros that work in reverse so that if you change anything on the UI or call up a different patch...it would figure out how to turn that into a single knob turn and send that singular knob turn message back to the controller.

I actually doubt Omnispheres is doing that at all for any of them, And we'd have the same issue with Lemur or any other physical or software controller.

[noiseboyuk]

Dewdman- yes, absolutely. It’s impossible for hardware controls that aren’t motorised to move on their own, so there’s no sense in doing all that engineering. And since this whole Lemur thing is just freeloading on the back of that, no sense I’m asking Spectrasonics for it either. It’s just a shared limitation of the whole thing.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Hardware controller - ... can't match every control (except the simplest synths)

Why not? Just do a few pages, just like you did with the lemur template.

... and some synths can't control at all, can't label

I can label with the remote SL, it has screens. With so few pages it wouldn’t take long to know instinctively where everything is too.

I think the SL can send nrpn as well iirc, but I’ll have to check that.

[RobGee]

Hi,

I uploaded 2 NRPN based di-directional controllers to the Lemur user library for the Roland Cloud versions of the System-1 and Jupiter-8. I use NRPN for all my personal controllers as it has a much higher resolution than midi (16834 vs 128 steps).

https://liine.net/en/community/user-library/view/716

https://liine.net/en/community/user-library/view/715/

I suppose these could be adapted to work with Omnisphere 2.5 if the hardware is supported but I think I’ll wait until version 2.5 is out of beta before attempting anything. I also have a MatrixBrute so I’m hoping they have support for that added at some point, in which case I probably won’t bother.

I’ve only been using Lemur for a year and found the forum to be a great resource, especially when it came to setting up bi-directional NRPN controls, but unfortunately it seems they’ve had problems with their website and it has since disappeared. This is a real shame as there was so much information and knowledge on there that has gone.

If you need any help setting up NRPN let me know and when I find some time I’ll attempt to help.

[noiseboyuk]

Thanks Rob, looking nice there - it's an interesting idea to get bigger controls on more tabs. Pros and cons both ways of course. I guess my default is to get as much in a single page as possible without it being silly, just because it's closer to the hardware experience of jumping from one control to others. Most bigger synths so far have fitted OK on two, but I can see a case for performance controls on a third.

I'm 99% sure that NRPN won't work in those cases though, because the boutiques are set up for midi CC only. No mention of NPRN in the manuals at all for any of the Rolands, so CCs are pretty much certain to be what Spectrasonics exclusively use for those. I have the System 8 and Jupiter 8 pretty much in a decent workable place though, so shouldn't matter too much that it can't be easily ported.

I've largely got to grips with NRPN now for the models that do use it, but there might well be some odd things here and there that are still gonna confuse me, so thanks v much for the offer.

Echoes - yes, you could over multiple pages, but there isn't a way to label the pages on the SL is there? And it looks like only the 8 knobs get labels at all and not the faders or buttons, so it would mean a lot of pages.

I can't remember if you are on the beta or not, but you could in theory just try it out now if you were - the midi implematation tables are all on the Roland product pages website.