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Rockatansky
KVRist
 
192 posts since 3 Jun, 2017

Postby Rockatansky; Sun May 20, 2018 10:51 am Re: Bye bye VST2

AnX wrote:
v1o wrote:Apple has a large market share.

5-7%

Link to the data you're referring to, please.
Confucamus.
Armagibbon
KVRian
 
636 posts since 20 Apr, 2017

Postby Armagibbon; Sun May 20, 2018 11:03 am Re: Bye bye VST2

Rockatansky wrote:
AnX wrote:
v1o wrote:Apple has a large market share.

5-7%

Link to the data you're referring to, please.

Think hes talkin bout the os market share. Apple lives at 8.6% in that.
Dunno if anyone can say what au or vst share is at. Nobody measures pro audio market stats its 2 damn small ahahaha
cthonophonic
KVRist
 
49 posts since 1 Jan, 2018

Postby cthonophonic; Sun May 20, 2018 11:12 am Re: Bye bye VST2

Armagibbon wrote:
Rockatansky wrote:
AnX wrote:
v1o wrote:Apple has a large market share.

5-7%

Link to the data you're referring to, please.

Think hes talkin bout the os market share. Apple lives at 8.6% in that.
Dunno if anyone can say what au or vst share is at. Nobody measures pro audio market stats its 2 damn small ahahaha


Presumably VST developers have a pretty good sense of what the various OS market shares are for their products, just based on downloads/registrations.

I'm pretty sure, however, that Apple's share of the AU market is pretty close to 100%. :wink:
resurrection
KVRer
 
18 posts since 18 May, 2018

Postby resurrection; Sun May 20, 2018 9:28 pm Re: Bye bye VST2

ENV1 wrote:squeezed an entire wavetable synthesizer including FX and modulation and whitenoise generator into an unbelievable 512 bytes of memory despite the fact that this was all there was for the entire pinball machine. (In other words he had only a portion of these 512 bytes to work with because the rest of the machine needed some too.) To put this into perspective; a standard average desktop shortcut (or even just an empty textfile) on a harddrive with standard formatting takes 4 kilobytes, i.e. 4 times as much.


This means that Windows is ineffective. Or does things differently. Because it's not a pinball machine.
ENV1
KVRAF
 
2233 posts since 31 Aug, 2011

Postby ENV1; Sun May 20, 2018 11:44 pm Re: Bye bye VST2

Thanks, good to know.
resurrection
KVRer
 
18 posts since 18 May, 2018

Postby resurrection; Sun May 20, 2018 11:48 pm Re: Bye bye VST2

Hey, all I'm saying is that your argument is bogus. The synth you mention - does it have an interface? Is it programmable? Is it playable?
ENV1
KVRAF
 
2233 posts since 31 Aug, 2011

Postby ENV1; Mon May 21, 2018 12:20 am Re: Bye bye VST2

resurrection wrote:Hey, all I'm saying is that your argument is bogus.

I didnt make any argument, i said its efficient to squeeze a wavetable synth including FX into less than 512 bytes of memory.

Do you want to dispute that?

resurrection wrote:The synth you mention - does it have an interface? Is it programmable? Is it playable?

No, of course not.

There is no access to its parameters, no programmability, and it makes no sound whatsoever.

(Thats what made it so efficient you know.) :roll:
mcbpete
KVRian
 
1088 posts since 24 Jun, 2006, from London, England

Postby mcbpete; Mon May 21, 2018 8:04 am Re: Bye bye VST2

resurrection wrote:This means that Windows is ineffective. Or does things differently. Because it's not a pinball machine.
It's because that's the smallest size a file can be on an NTFS partition, n.b. this is also a 4kb file on an NTFS partition:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzW0ammfUAQ
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aMUSEd
KVRAF
 
29433 posts since 14 Sep, 2002, from In teh net

Postby aMUSEd; Mon May 21, 2018 8:10 am Re: Bye bye VST2

Ichad.c wrote:
No_Use wrote:Won't we see any new plugins processing and outputting MIDI (i.e like the Piz MIDI tools, arps, audio to MIDI...) in the future if there's no MDI processing / outputting capabilities in VST3 (as I've read) ?


You can verify this @KVR - just search for MIDI+VST3 plugins = 0 results. VST3 can't output MIDI


How does Axon VST3 manage it then?

https://www.audiodamage.com/products/ad042-axon-2

MIDI in and out, for driving Axon from DAW and hardware sequencers, or driving your drum rack or other samples from Axon.


afaik it's just midi learn that Steinberg expect to be handled by the host.

I think this is also VST3

http://evilturtle.nl/store/plugins/crazyrhythm.html
Last edited by aMUSEd on Mon May 21, 2018 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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musicus
KVRist
 
137 posts since 27 Jan, 2003, from germany

Postby musicus; Mon May 21, 2018 8:16 am Re: Bye bye VST2

in the distant future there really will be no more VST2, as there are hardly any programs that support Win95/98/ME today.
But it's similar to MP3, which isn't being developed any further either. But this format has become so well established that it will be years before it completely disappears. This will also be the case with VST2

sorry my bad english
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Ichad.c
KVRian
 
1027 posts since 8 Feb, 2012, from South - Africa

Postby Ichad.c; Mon May 21, 2018 8:47 am Re: Bye bye VST2

aMUSEd wrote:
Ichad.c wrote:
No_Use wrote:Won't we see any new plugins processing and outputting MIDI (i.e like the Piz MIDI tools, arps, audio to MIDI...) in the future if there's no MDI processing / outputting capabilities in VST3 (as I've read) ?


You can verify this @KVR - just search for MIDI+VST3 plugins = 0 results. VST3 can't output MIDI


How does Axon VST3 manage it then?

https://www.audiodamage.com/products/ad042-axon-2


My bad, should have said -> does not support full MIDI V1.0 specifications.

https://sdk.steinberg.net/viewtopic.php?t=120

Edit: and:

https://forum.juce.com/t/what-is-the-in ... rs/17858/3
No_Use
KVRAF
 
2281 posts since 13 Mar, 2004

Postby No_Use; Mon May 21, 2018 11:18 am Re: Bye bye VST2

Ichad.c wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:
Ichad.c wrote:
No_Use wrote:Won't we see any new plugins processing and outputting MIDI (i.e like the Piz MIDI tools, arps, audio to MIDI...) in the future if there's no MDI processing / outputting capabilities in VST3 (as I've read) ?


You can verify this @KVR - just search for MIDI+VST3 plugins = 0 results. VST3 can't output MIDI


How does Axon VST3 manage it then?

https://www.audiodamage.com/products/ad042-axon-2


My bad, should have said -> does not support full MIDI V1.0 specifications.

https://sdk.steinberg.net/viewtopic.php?t=120

Edit: and:

https://forum.juce.com/t/what-is-the-in ... rs/17858/3


Thanks for clarifying and the links.
Ah_Dziz
KVRAF
 
2258 posts since 2 Jul, 2005

Postby Ah_Dziz; Mon May 21, 2018 12:34 pm Re: Bye bye VST2

LeVzi wrote:Am I the only one who goes for the VST3 version of a plugin over the VST2 ?

I find them less taxing on my PC.

I often do. Some of the developers do extremely well with going vst3. Others not so much. I do it case by case mostly. I would prefer that it was picked up by more developers, but I've given up hope at this point. My two biggest bundles (waves platinum, and Melda total) run amazingly as vst3 and then the big projects use the vst3 version of Vienna Ensemble Pro which is great because of the multiple midi ports. Honestly the only stuff I'd like to see implemented properly as vst3 at this point is the Komplete stuff and machine. Sub hosts and sample players like Kontakt could benefit quite a bit from extra midi ports and some of the other standard vst3 features.
Don't F**K with Mr. Zero.
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jancivil
KVRAF
 
14448 posts since 20 Oct, 2007, from No Location

Postby jancivil; Mon May 21, 2018 3:49 pm Re: Bye bye VST2

Ah_Dziz wrote:
LeVzi wrote:Am I the only one who goes for the VST3 version of a plugin over the VST2 ?

I find them less taxing on my PC.

I often do. Some of the developers do extremely well with going vst3. Others not so much. I do it case by case mostly. I would prefer that it was picked up by more developers, but I've given up hope at this point. My two biggest bundles (waves platinum, and Melda total) run amazingly as vst3 and then the big projects use the vst3 version of Vienna Ensemble Pro which is great because of the multiple midi ports. Honestly the only stuff I'd like to see implemented properly as vst3 at this point is the Komplete stuff and machine. Sub hosts and sample players like Kontakt could benefit quite a bit from extra midi ports and some of the other standard vst3 features.

In Cubase or Nuendo, I'm going to see the VST3 versions first when I insert an FX from Inspector. I have selected 'suspend VST3 processing when audio not in use' in Preferences and that is simply preferable for obvious reasons.

The only trouble I have experienced was realtime mouse interaction with VSL Vienna Suite plugins, which is probably just too much realtime for my system. Have to practice patience here.

Other than Steinberg native, I don't have any VST 3 vstis (that I've noticed) and I'm not even using those so far either, so I don't know. If I was, I would lobby VSL to support VST 3 instruments in VE Pro.

VE Pro as VST 3 does provide up to 48 MIDI ports which is crucial to even how I organize a 'template' or frame. I use 16. 16 x 16 vs 1 x 16, no-brainer, let alone the more extensive usage by the symphonic composer. I remember wondering why a plugin only gives the single port going back to Gigastudio days, and then noticing Kontakt standalone provides 4. I'm running nearly all instrument plugins in VE Pro so no problem here.
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S0lo
KVRian
 
551 posts since 31 Dec, 2008

Postby S0lo; Mon May 21, 2018 4:56 pm Re: Bye bye VST2

Ah_Dziz wrote:
LeVzi wrote:Am I the only one who goes for the VST3 version of a plugin over the VST2 ?

I find them less taxing on my PC.

I often do. Some of the developers do extremely well with going vst3. Others not so much. I do it case by case mostly. I would prefer that it was picked up by more developers, but I've given up hope at this point. My two biggest bundles (waves platinum, and Melda total) run amazingly as vst3 and then the big projects use the vst3 version of Vienna Ensemble Pro which is great because of the multiple midi ports. Honestly the only stuff I'd like to see implemented properly as vst3 at this point is the Komplete stuff and machine. Sub hosts and sample players like Kontakt could benefit quite a bit from extra midi ports and some of the other standard vst3 features.


Many developers who give VST3 versions of their plugins don't actually code it in VST3. Instead, they use a general purpose platform like JUCE (or etc..) to output VST3. Thats how they are easily able to target VST, VST3, AU, RTAS and AAX all at once. It's safer this way, incase Steinberg decides they want to change their whole API again in VST4, the developer would rely on Juce to do the job without needing to update his/her code.

JUCE is not totally free. So a small dev would think twice before committing to it. Because once he/she codes his plugin, after few months of coding there will be no turning back. This gives larger developers advantage. And the main beneficiary from this is JUCE.

All this wouldn't have happened if Steinberg built on top of VST2 (like most other vendors do) instead of bringing a whole new different API. Once they did so, they've lost the developer trust. The last thing a dev wants to see is having to recode his whole stuff just because of an API change. Even if he/she did, Whose to say they wont do it again in VST4.
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