question about audio interfaces - wanna get a new one
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1815 posts since 1 Jun, 2003
Hey,
so I have three volcas and a waldorf rocket and my current audio interface doesn't have enough inputs to record all of them at once.
I've been eyeing the behringer umc404hd...
now my (noob) question: are the four inputs of the umc404 mono? I'm guessing/afraid they are. it says they are trs jacks, which kinda sounds like they'd be stereo, but my current interface claims to have 2 inputs, too, but in reality that means two mono or one stereo input...
so I have three volcas and a waldorf rocket and my current audio interface doesn't have enough inputs to record all of them at once.
I've been eyeing the behringer umc404hd...
now my (noob) question: are the four inputs of the umc404 mono? I'm guessing/afraid they are. it says they are trs jacks, which kinda sounds like they'd be stereo, but my current interface claims to have 2 inputs, too, but in reality that means two mono or one stereo input...
- Beware the Quoth
- 33107 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
On a soundcard spec, it'll be telling you how many separate channels of audio it can support. If something has 4 input channels, it could be hooked up to 4 mono sources, 2 stereo sources, etc etc; thus the actual input sockets are pretty much always mono; if they're TRS sockets it'll be TRS because they're balanced inputs.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
- KVRAF
- 15205 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland
You're probably right: me thinks it has 4 mono inputs.
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1815 posts since 1 Jun, 2003
Thanks, guys, for clearing that up... four mono inputs sounds alright, though. not as great a four stereo ones, but can't have everything.
- KVRAF
- 1576 posts since 22 Oct, 2004 from Schmocation
In my DAW you choose whether to treat the inputs as mono or stereo. Maybe it's the same in yours?
Maybe this QA is of interest: https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advi ... vel-inputs
Maybe this QA is of interest: https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advi ... vel-inputs
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1815 posts since 1 Jun, 2003
Thanks for the comment and the link.skipscada wrote:In my DAW you choose whether to treat the inputs as mono or stereo. Maybe it's the same in yours?
Maybe this QA is of interest: https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advi ... vel-inputs
I've got another question: what is the benefit of using the inserts on the back of the unit as opposed to hooking up my kaoss pad mini 2s after a volca and straight into an input or two? All I know is that I'd need more adapters to be able to use it in the back as an insert... XD
Edit: even though I don't frequent kvr as much as I used to, it's still kvr when Whyte answers first in a thread...
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thecontrolcentre thecontrolcentre https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=76240
- KVRAF
- 35098 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny
Allen & Heath Zed10 may suit ya ...
https://www.astounded.com/shop/allen-he ... interface/
https://www.astounded.com/shop/allen-he ... interface/
- Beware the Quoth
- 33107 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
It may be that the software lets you disable the use of those inserts or even reroute which inserts apply to which channels.fabi wrote: I've got another question: what is the benefit of using the inserts on the back of the unit as opposed to hooking up my kaoss pad mini 2s after a volca and straight into an input or two? All I know is that I'd need more adapters to be able to use it in the back as an insert... XD
It could also be that they're dry/wet controllable inserts rather than send/returns.
However cost etc might (and my uneducated guess leans towards 'probably does' ) preclude all of those things, in which case there'd be no real difference between that and direct cabling. Checking the manual would be a good bet.
Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.Edit: even though I don't frequent kvr as much as I used to, it's still kvr when Whyte answers first in a thread...
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
- Beware the Quoth
- 33107 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
Note : given that each input channel has its own gain knob on that device, its worth mentioning you'll have to be careful matching levels on both channels of any stereo instruments.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
- KVRian
- 626 posts since 15 Jun, 2015
Keep in mind that using the insert jacks breaks the signal path from the audio inputs, so you can't just use them as extra mono inputs (in fact, doing this could damage the audio interface without making your own special mono cable with the tip conductor disconnected--definitely not recommended).
If you plug anything into the insert jack, you need an appropriate insert Y cable. Typically, the device on the other end of that insert cable must be connected and powered up, or your signal path will still be broken--so no audio output from the interface. Inserts are generally reserved for things like compressors or EQ..
So really, your choices are either buy an interface with more inputs, or buy a mixer with enough inputs and route the output of the mixer to the interface. Something like the Tascam LM-8ST is a good choice, has eight stereo inputs, clean sound, and a lot of great features, but still affordable.
If you plug anything into the insert jack, you need an appropriate insert Y cable. Typically, the device on the other end of that insert cable must be connected and powered up, or your signal path will still be broken--so no audio output from the interface. Inserts are generally reserved for things like compressors or EQ..
So really, your choices are either buy an interface with more inputs, or buy a mixer with enough inputs and route the output of the mixer to the interface. Something like the Tascam LM-8ST is a good choice, has eight stereo inputs, clean sound, and a lot of great features, but still affordable.
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1815 posts since 1 Jun, 2003
I'm really confused by TS/TRS / unbalanced versus balanced inputs and such... I don't quite understand what kind of adapters I would need and which ones might damage the interface or other connected equipment.
I was thinking of getting some of these https://www.musicstore.de/de_DE/EUR/MUS ... 001235-000 to connect to the front inputs, but don't know whether stereo plugs into mono inputs might damage some of my equipment.
With regard to Y-adapters, I was thinking about getting two or more of these: https://www.musicstore.de/de_DE/EUR/MUS ... 001169-002
One for the main out, one to get a stereo in via two inputs in the front.
Now another thing I don't understand about the insert inputs - how come there aren't outputs AND inputs for the inserts? The way I'd imagine it is that I'd have something going into the front input, then use an 'insert out' --> fx --> insert in... but there appear to be only insert ins, not outs. So I don't quite understand how one would use the inserts ins in the back without being able to feed the fx via an 'insert out'...
I was thinking of getting some of these https://www.musicstore.de/de_DE/EUR/MUS ... 001235-000 to connect to the front inputs, but don't know whether stereo plugs into mono inputs might damage some of my equipment.
With regard to Y-adapters, I was thinking about getting two or more of these: https://www.musicstore.de/de_DE/EUR/MUS ... 001169-002
One for the main out, one to get a stereo in via two inputs in the front.
Now another thing I don't understand about the insert inputs - how come there aren't outputs AND inputs for the inserts? The way I'd imagine it is that I'd have something going into the front input, then use an 'insert out' --> fx --> insert in... but there appear to be only insert ins, not outs. So I don't quite understand how one would use the inserts ins in the back without being able to feed the fx via an 'insert out'...
- Beware the Quoth
- 33107 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
TS versus TRS is the physical format of the connector so either two (tip+barrel on a jack) or three (tip, middle, barrel) electrically seperate elements to the plug. T=tip, R=ring, S=sleeve.fabi wrote:I'm really confused by TS/TRS / unbalanced versus balanced inputs and such...
Balanced versus unbalanced relates to how the connection is wired up. If its unbalanced, then there's a ground connection and a signal connection. If its balanced, then there's a ground connection, a signal connection and an inverted copy of the signal connection. Balancing is for interference reduction.
From that, its easy to see that an unbalanced connection maps onto a two-connector physical format, and a balanced connection maps onto a three-connector physical format.
But an unbalanced device can be connected to a balanced cable socket and still work, though its not completely optimal. There is a way of half-balancing a cable which is rarer, though strictly speaking better to do.
Nothing audio or audio cable should cause any damage.I don't quite understand what kind of adapters I would need and which ones might damage the interface or other connected equipment.
[/quote]Now another thing I don't understand about the insert inputs - how come there aren't outputs AND inputs for the inserts? The way I'd imagine it is that I'd have something going into the front input, then use an 'insert out' --> fx --> insert in... but there appear to be only insert ins, not outs. So I don't quite understand how one would use the inserts ins in the back without being able to feed the fx via an 'insert out'...
They're calling them inserts but I suspect that in terms of the connection they're unbalanced send/return (where the ground is shared) on TRS.
(Note, because TRS cables are sometimes used for Send/Return, conflation of those terms sometimes happens, but TS/TRS strictly refers to the connector, not the useage).
edit : fixed quoteblocks
Last edited by whyterabbyt on Wed May 23, 2018 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1815 posts since 1 Jun, 2003
Thanks for the elaborate reply.
If those 'inserts' are send/returns I still don't understand why there are only the four 'returns', but not four 'sends' to go along with them...
If those 'inserts' are send/returns I still don't understand why there are only the four 'returns', but not four 'sends' to go along with them...
- KVRAF
- 15205 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland
An insert is send plus return in one connector for convenience. You have to use a Y-cable with them.fabi wrote:If those 'inserts' are send/returns I still don't understand why there are only the four 'returns', but not four 'sends' to go along with them
The tip is send and ring is return (or vice versa, I forgot) and each has a simple mono connector on the other side of the Y-cable.
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
- Beware the Quoth
- 33107 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
Yeah, what BertKoor says; for clarity I should have said 'send -and- return' on one connector.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand