Need Upper Frequencies Help Desperately

[wagtunes]

Before I answer your question, tambourines are not played by the drummer.

Tambourines are played by drummers. Not in every instance, but its hardly unusual.

A tambourine is a musical instrument typically derived from plastic or wooden frame. It contains pairs of small zils a.k.a. metal jingles to produce its sound. It belongs to the percussion family musical instruments and it can be played in a hand-held or mounted style. You can easily notice the difference between a handheld and mounted tambourine because the latter has a metal holder that can be attached for drum kits.

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/drums-p ... ss-jingles

Except it's physically impossible for him to be playing kick, snare, hi hat and cymbals and play the tambourine at the same time. In those cases, the tambourine part is usually played by somebody else. As an example, Mr Tambourine Man when they played it live.

Point is, the tambourine is not part of the drum kit. It is separate onto itself. Now, whether the producers want the tambourine up front more or buried is what my point is. Who decides and why? And what if the tambourine IS important to the song, for whatever reason? Wouldn't you want it more up front?

Personally, I don't understand what the point is of having something barely audible when, in the grand scheme of things, nobody is probably going to notice it anyway if you've got 10 other things going on at the same time.

[wagtunes]

Wags do you own Neutron 2 Advanced? It includes a great plugin for balancing your mix, it's called Tonal Balance Control.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_irH8qflEY

I have Neutron 2. I didn't know there was an advanced. Had I known, I would have gotten that instead.

[whyterabbyt]

Except it's physically impossible for him to be playing kick, snare, hi hat and cymbals and play the tambourine at the same time.

That's kind of irrelevant to the statement I was responding to; its a moved goalpost.

Point is, the tambourine is not part of the drum kit.

Point is, there are tambourines built specifically to be part of the drumkit and played by the drummer, like the one I linked to.

Now, whether the producers want the tambourine up front more or buried is what my point is. Who decides and why? And what if the tambourine IS important to the song, for whatever reason? Wouldn't you want it more up front?

Im sort of at a loss as to why you're basically evidencing your concern for someone else's opinion so much that you're demanding someone else explain you should care about someone else's opinion. If you see what I mean.

IMO, either say 'f**k it' and do what you want, or follow what that specific third party says, but that's your call. This kinda feels like you think 'we' should express a stake in that third party's opinion reported second-hand.

[wagtunes]

Except it's physically impossible for him to be playing kick, snare, hi hat and cymbals and play the tambourine at the same time.

That's kind of irrelevant to the statement I was responding to; its a moved goalpost.

Point is, the tambourine is not part of the drum kit.

Point is, there are tambourines built specifically to be part of the drumkit and played by the drummer, like the one I linked to.

Now, whether the producers want the tambourine up front more or buried is what my point is. Who decides and why? And what if the tambourine IS important to the song, for whatever reason? Wouldn't you want it more up front?

Im sort of at a loss as to why you're basically evidencing your concern for someone else's opinion so much that you're demanding someone else explain you should care about someone else's opinion. If you see what I mean.

IMO, either say 'f**k it' and do what you want, or follow what that specific third party says, but that's your call. This kinda feels like you think 'we' should express a stake in that third party's opinion reported second-hand.

Well, actually I'm just trying to get an understanding of why things are done the way they're done. Is there some unwritten rule somewhere that says "Genre X - Instrument Y must be (whatever)"

The problem with saying F it and just doing what I want is that I then open myself to the same criticisms all the time, and it gets tiresome. Yeah, I know. So then do what they want. I get it. Conform or don't complain when they rip your stuff apart.

This is why I essentially work by myself.

Thanks for the feedback though. I do appreciate it.

[wagtunes]

PS - Ah, didn't notice the link. Never knew that. Only thing I ever attached to my drums was a cowbell. Didn't know you could even do that with a tambourine. So I learned something today. Thanks.

[whyterabbyt]

Well, actually I'm just trying to get an understanding of why things are done the way they're done. Is there some unwritten rule somewhere that says "Genre X - Instrument Y must be (whatever)"

Use of the word 'rule' directs the perception a particular way. 'Expectation', 'tradition' or 'aesthetic' would be equally valid alternative contexts that you might find less imperative. I think if you think of them as rules, that implies the criticism (in the neutral sense of that word) given is oppressive. There's plenty of scope for its intent it to have been constructive or informative, though.

[jeamsler]

I'm in a similar boat with hearing high frequences. I've also got a notch around 2k in one ear. Some of this may have been said before but this is what I do that helps. I use Neutron 2 advanced with the tonal balance control and a reference recording to balance high frequencies. The reference need not be too specific. I have found tonal balances are fairly consistent for good mixes within genres. The masking meter also helps and is included in the standard version of Neutron 2. I also use the Mathaudio headphone EQ to eq my ears along with the headphones I'm using. The plugin is designed to eq headphone abnormalities arising from ones outer ear interacting with your headphones. But it is done by ear so is specific to your ears and headphones. That way you are also EQing your hearing to some degree. This has helped a lot. If I want to look carefully at the HF in the mix I'll put on headphones with mathaudio headphone eq and my custom curve and listen. This in conjunction with tonal balance control and other spectrum visualizers helps me get a mix others think is ok. Generally I've found when it sounds ok over headphones it also happens to be in target ranges on visualizers as well. You should also play anything for someone else (not over the internet but someone local) to see what they think of course. May not work for you but works well for me. Keep in mind that with hearing damage you might find that in addition to reduced sensitivity you may also be generating noise and distortion within your ears. Nothing you can do about that though. If you are able (and haven't done so) you should get checked by an audiologist just so you know what exactly is going on and the level of your hearing problem.

[wagtunes]

Well, actually I'm just trying to get an understanding of why things are done the way they're done. Is there some unwritten rule somewhere that says "Genre X - Instrument Y must be (whatever)"

Use of the word 'rule' directs the perception a particular way. 'Expectation', 'tradition' or 'aesthetic' would be equally valid alternative contexts that you might find less imperative. I think if you think of them as rules, that implies the criticism (in the neutral sense of that word) given is oppressive. There's plenty of scope for its intent it to have been constructive or informative, though.

So in other words I'm looking at all of this negatively and instead should look at it with a more open mind, use what I want, discard what I don't find useful. But in either case, understand that there will always be feedback that won't entirely agree with what I ultimately ended up doing with the song.

is that pretty much it in a nutshell?

[wagtunes]

I'm in a similar boat with hearing high frequences. I've also got a notch around 2k in one ear. Some of this may have been said before but this is what I do that helps. I use Neutron 2 advanced with the tonal balance control and a reference recording to balance high frequencies. The reference need not be too specific. I have found tonal balances are fairly consistent for good mixes within genres. The masking meter also helps and is included in the standard version of Neutron 2. I also use the Mathaudio headphone EQ to eq my ears along with the headphones I'm using. The plugin is designed to eq headphone abnormalities arising from ones outer ear interacting with your headphones. But it is done by ear so is specific to your ears and headphones. That way you are also EQing your hearing to some degree. This has helped a lot. If I want to look carefully at the HF in the mix I'll put on headphones with mathaudio headphone eq and my custom curve and listen. This in conjunction with tonal balance control and other spectrum visualizers helps me get a mix others think is ok. Generally I've found when it sounds ok over headphones it also happens to be in target ranges on visualizers as well. You should also play anything for someone else (not over the internet but someone local) to see what they think of course. May not work for you but works well for me. Keep in mind that with hearing damage you might find that in addition to reduced sensitivity you may also be generating noise and distortion within your ears. Nothing you can do about that though. If you are able (and haven't done so) you should get checked by an audiologist just so you know what exactly is going on and the level of your hearing problem.

Thanks for the advice.

1. I wonder what the upgrade cost is from Neutron 2 to advanced.

2. I've had my ears checked. The "damage" isn't that serious. It's just the upper frequencies that I can't hear so I have problems with F, S and letters like that. But my overall volume detection otherwise is fine. I hear things from the other room that my wife can't believe I hear, as long as they're lower frequencies.

3. I'll make a note of your process above and see if I can come close to it with what I have. Don't want to spend a lot of money on this problem.

[Michael L]

Jeamsler is absolutely spot-on!
I was going to write but he said it better.
I do all that too. Using multiple tools "in conjunction" is THE way to go because you develop a clear picture. I use TB Morphit for headphones, and spent some time choosing an analyzer I like.
I'll add that if only one high-freq instrument is a problem, I'll pitch-shift it down to set levels.

[jeamsler]

My hearing loss is probably worse than yours so maybe there is something in the process that will help. MathAudio Headphone is about $60 so not too terrible. You could try the free demo that I think drops out every so often to see how it works and also you can get an idea of the type of eq that might help you that you can then apply using what you have. The plugin has a sweepable tone generator that makes it easy and quick to generate a curve so it might help just to give a starting point to use with something else. You could do the same process using a tone gen plugin that comes with many DAWs and run it through an eq. The MathAudio thing is a little easier since you have the sweepable control for the tone gen and the frequency spectrum screen and filter controls all in one window.

[wagtunes]

Jeamsler is absolutely spot-on!
I was going to write but he said it better.
I do all that too. Using multiple tools "in conjunction" is THE way to go because you develop a clear picture. I use TB Morphit for headphones, and spent some time choosing an analyzer I like.
I'll add that if only one high-freq instrument is a problem, I'll pitch-shift it down to set levels.

Okay, well, I'm going to try to see if I understand the procedure. I'm still a little fuzzy as to what to do and I don't have Neutron 2 Advanced (just standard) and I really don't want to spend a lot of money to get this done.

[jeamsler]

I use morphit as well. Works well to smooth the headphones. Nice idea to pitch shift HF stuff down; hadn't thought of that.

[thecontrolcentre]

Are the"nitpickers" other musicians, or just people you know? Do they have the proper experience to give mixing advice? Just wondering why you care about their opinions.

Musically its irrelevant (tambourines aren't likely to be a critical element in a track).

Manchestoh, our kid.

Bez's maracas are exempted too ...

[wagtunes]

Are the"nitpickers" other musicians, or just people you know? Do they have the proper experience to give mixing advice? Just wondering why you care about their opinions.

Musically its irrelevant (tambourines aren't likely to be a critical element in a track).

Manchestoh, our kid.

Bez's maracas are exempted too ...

I'm not privy to their credentials. The people I know personally love my music. But maybe they're just being nice. We all know that's a definite possibility. Though one of my Christmas pieces was just performed by the NJ Order Of The Eastern Star Choir at their annual convention in Atlantic City. I don't think they would have performed it if they thought it was bad. So who knows?

I tend to take things at face value but with a grain of salt if it's praise. It's only the criticisms I take seriously.

Yes, I know. That's on me.