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e-musician
KVRist
 
40 posts since 4 Feb, 2015

Postby e-musician; Tue May 22, 2018 8:08 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

msvs wrote: we had not one single complaint outside KVR. Thats one of the reasons we will not do anything at the moment to change our GUI, our Font or our skinning system. I am very sorry, but thank you for your suggestions anyways. :tu:


I absolutely love Avenger's GUI. It's beautiful, functional and easy to work with!

What is more, the two additional skins by satyatunes that came with some of the updates in the past (for free!) are fantastic, too!

Well done, Manuel and Rene!

[It would be nice to see a new additional skin added from time to time, though, just occasionally, maybe once a year, or every two years, in an update or so ... :) ]
jmg8
KVRAF
 
1525 posts since 8 Jul, 2015, from UK

Postby jmg8; Tue May 22, 2018 8:58 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

tapekiller wrote:
msvs wrote:Btw we chosen this font because its narrow. No other font would have fit in X axis.


I'm pretty sure that's not the only narrow font that results scalable (for example https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Roboto+Condensed is not as terrible and https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Open+Sans+Condensed is also pretty good).
Anyway being forced to use narrow fonts is a consequence of the UI design choices that often involve weird space management. As someone else said the preset section is a prime example of elements that "waste" space.
U-he knows this and u-he plugins don't show you the presets list at all times because when you program your synth you don't need it and displaying a list of presets is neither functional nor helpful in that regard, if anything it takes up precious space that could be used in some other way and, as a consequence, doesn't force you to condense everything you have in smaller spaces.
This would be a non-issue if skinning the synth had the same degree of freedom that zebra/hive have.
Hell, you can even rearrange whole sections of the synth in different ways or make the synth look significantly different and, therefore, not having to deal with some issues you'd face with the original skin.
ZEBRA
https://u-he.com/PatchLib/skins/HilbertSpace-EasyAccess2.png
https://u-he.com/PatchLib/skins/Ruby_Pane_Module.png
https://i.imgur.com/3j1f2JK.png
HIVE
https://u-he.com/PatchLib/skins/HilbertSpace-EasyAccess_Hive.jpg
DIVA
https://u-he.com/PatchLib/skins/drzhnn-diva_redux_2.png
https://u-he.com/PatchLib/skins/Diva-AIKO.png
https://u-he.com/PatchLib/skins/drzhnn-Diva_Redux.png

Anyway, there was already one skin that would have partially solved many of the "issues" in the ui, especially for readability.
Image
The preset selection is just that much better because it no longer looks like a 2000 era flash game menu and can display a lot more presets/categories without having to scroll (with painfully low fps), text is a lot more readable than the one we currently have (which is also condensed too much when it doesn't need to, like "v-saw" and "voicing" to name a couple), doesn't have shaded bold text near knobs that make the ui look a lot worse especially when scaled.
I hope you still want to implement it because that would be great, and if we can use it as a starting point for making our own skins that would be even better.

On a related note, allowing more cusomization with skins like these I posted would help you in case you don't want to have to deal with the usual complains about the UI, which I'm sure will keep coming.
I'd like to say "please consider this" but I'm afraid this will end up being overlooked just like all my previous posts, as if they are some kind of offense to your own intellect. Which is kind of saddening because I really care about this synth and I believe an external point of view can help, while a dev might be too much into their own work that they lose sight of some of the most obvious aspects.

Where do I find this skin? Thanks.
i7/16gb/win10,64bit/Live9/MTotal. + Surface Pro 4 (i5)
tapekiller
KVRer
 
17 posts since 6 Nov, 2014

Postby tapekiller; Tue May 22, 2018 10:18 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

jmg8 wrote:
tapekiller wrote:
msvs wrote:Btw we chosen this font because its narrow. No other font would have fit in X axis.


I'm pretty sure that's not the only narrow font that results scalable (for example https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Roboto+Condensed is not as terrible and https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Open+Sans+Condensed is also pretty good).
Anyway being forced to use narrow fonts is a consequence of the UI design choices that often involve weird space management. As someone else said the preset section is a prime example of elements that "waste" space.
U-he knows this and u-he plugins don't show you the presets list at all times because when you program your synth you don't need it and displaying a list of presets is neither functional nor helpful in that regard, if anything it takes up precious space that could be used in some other way and, as a consequence, doesn't force you to condense everything you have in smaller spaces.
This would be a non-issue if skinning the synth had the same degree of freedom that zebra/hive have.
Hell, you can even rearrange whole sections of the synth in different ways or make the synth look significantly different and, therefore, not having to deal with some issues you'd face with the original skin.
ZEBRA
https://u-he.com/PatchLib/skins/HilbertSpace-EasyAccess2.png
https://u-he.com/PatchLib/skins/Ruby_Pane_Module.png
https://i.imgur.com/3j1f2JK.png
HIVE
https://u-he.com/PatchLib/skins/HilbertSpace-EasyAccess_Hive.jpg
DIVA
https://u-he.com/PatchLib/skins/drzhnn-diva_redux_2.png
https://u-he.com/PatchLib/skins/Diva-AIKO.png
https://u-he.com/PatchLib/skins/drzhnn-Diva_Redux.png

Anyway, there was already one skin that would have partially solved many of the "issues" in the ui, especially for readability.
Image
The preset selection is just that much better because it no longer looks like a 2000 era flash game menu and can display a lot more presets/categories without having to scroll (with painfully low fps), text is a lot more readable than the one we currently have (which is also condensed too much when it doesn't need to, like "v-saw" and "voicing" to name a couple), doesn't have shaded bold text near knobs that make the ui look a lot worse especially when scaled.
I hope you still want to implement it because that would be great, and if we can use it as a starting point for making our own skins that would be even better.

On a related note, allowing more cusomization with skins like these I posted would help you in case you don't want to have to deal with the usual complains about the UI, which I'm sure will keep coming.
I'd like to say "please consider this" but I'm afraid this will end up being overlooked just like all my previous posts, as if they are some kind of offense to your own intellect. Which is kind of saddening because I really care about this synth and I believe an external point of view can help, while a dev might be too much into their own work that they lose sight of some of the most obvious aspects.

Where do I find this skin? Thanks.

It's not available yet.
But iirc Manuel said he will consider including it few posts ago. Fingers crossed, That skin is a lot better than the ones we currently have IMHO and probably will be more readable at lower scaling (which someone pointed out was a issue for them, although I work with a 2k monitor and I only see bad text aliasing but that's it).
jmg8
KVRAF
 
1525 posts since 8 Jul, 2015, from UK

Postby jmg8; Wed May 23, 2018 12:46 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

I think that skin looks great. I like the accent colour changing depending on which OSC you have selected.
I wonder what the modulation colour is?
I would also like to see a dark version of this skin.
If there was a dark version with orange and blue, it would be better as the new default.
i7/16gb/win10,64bit/Live9/MTotal. + Surface Pro 4 (i5)
tarsonis
KVRer
 
24 posts since 28 Feb, 2011

Postby tarsonis; Wed May 23, 2018 3:37 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

Ok, downloaded the demo after watching their advertising and promising vid. Wow. The GUI is not loading. Black screen and sometimes white. But funny I can resize the window. Well doesn't make me want to spend 200 bucks on this. The further weird but funny stuff. There is also a blank page on their support page. So I actually wouldn't not have a chance to contact the support.
My DAW is a Win7 with a nVidea 1060 graphics. Should handle a VST plugin. I'm the only one with a black screen? Seems not to be a common bug besides that the GUI itself filled 481 pages here. At least you guys seem to be able to open the plugin hehe
Magnut
KVRist
 
43 posts since 14 Mar, 2017

Postby Magnut; Wed May 23, 2018 3:52 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

tarsonis wrote:Ok, downloaded the demo after watching their advertising and promising vid. Wow. The GUI is not loading. Black screen and sometimes white. But funny I can resize the window. Well doesn't make me want to spend 200 bucks on this. The further weird but funny stuff. There is also a blank page on their support page. So I actually wouldn't not have a chance to contact the support.
My DAW is a Win7 with a nVidea 1060 graphics. Should handle a VST plugin. I'm the only one with a black screen? Seems not to be a common bug besides that the GUI itself filled 481 pages here. At least you guys seem to be able to open the plugin hehe

This is a bug since the release... Many complaints in here. But hey the standard answer seems to be "we had not one single complaint outside KVR" (besides the bug reports on gearslutz and in their own forum too) :D

The good thing is: if you can't open the ui then your graphics card won't melt down :clown: :clown: :clown:
User avatar
] Peter:H [
KVRian
 
524 posts since 22 Sep, 2016

Postby ] Peter:H [; Wed May 23, 2018 9:43 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

Magnut wrote:
tarsonis wrote:Ok, downloaded the demo after watching their advertising and promising vid. Wow. The GUI is not loading. Black screen and sometimes white. But funny I can resize the window. Well doesn't make me want to spend 200 bucks on this. The further weird but funny stuff. There is also a blank page on their support page. So I actually wouldn't not have a chance to contact the support.
My DAW is a Win7 with a nVidea 1060 graphics. Should handle a VST plugin. I'm the only one with a black screen? Seems not to be a common bug besides that the GUI itself filled 481 pages here. At least you guys seem to be able to open the plugin hehe

This is a bug since the release... Many complaints in here. But hey the standard answer seems to be "we had not one single complaint outside KVR" (besides the bug reports on gearslutz and in their own forum too) :D

The good thing is: if you can't open the ui then your graphics card won't melt down :clown: :clown: :clown:


Ha ha ha...but No! The plugin works like a charm since 1.3.0 on my system. I'm really a bit surprised that so called musicians can only complain about a piece of software that probably must be the fault of everything (no in computer history it has never been a misconfigured system, crapy gc drivers or out dated hw)...if you ever dealt with computers before...all guys here need the perfect scalable gui, they "order" the features they need and sometimes put these in words that make me think not the sun is the center of our system...and they want demanding features that require vendors to go for leading edge apis to implement them...they want feature after feature and all in one place...if then we end up with a cluttered gui that tries to make a good compromise between number of accessible features and useability...they complain again.
What I see and *hear* when I open and use Avenger to make musik is a leading edge synth, one of the most capable on the market today! And I'm freaking glad I bought it. And I'm freaking glad Manuel is still here and listening patiently...though he said time after time that this thread is NOT the official support forum...
I hope some of you guys (not all) can find a more constructive way of dealing with their individual problems and can respect that there is a majority of users that is really glad to be Avenger Users...
Sorry for venting...
User avatar
msvs
KVRian
 
1103 posts since 18 Apr, 2011

Postby msvs; Wed May 23, 2018 9:45 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

btw, regarding the black GUI:

the problem is a override of the ANTI-ALIAS setting in the GPU driver settings.
It must be set to "Application Controlled"
other settings will cause the black screen that you experience.

Either reset that manually or reinstall the GPU driver.
In most cases the reinstallation does reset this setting.
jmg8
KVRAF
 
1525 posts since 8 Jul, 2015, from UK

Postby jmg8; Thu May 24, 2018 1:24 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

] Peter:H [ wrote:
Magnut wrote:
tarsonis wrote:Ok, downloaded the demo after watching their advertising and promising vid. Wow. The GUI is not loading. Black screen and sometimes white. But funny I can resize the window. Well doesn't make me want to spend 200 bucks on this. The further weird but funny stuff. There is also a blank page on their support page. So I actually wouldn't not have a chance to contact the support.
My DAW is a Win7 with a nVidea 1060 graphics. Should handle a VST plugin. I'm the only one with a black screen? Seems not to be a common bug besides that the GUI itself filled 481 pages here. At least you guys seem to be able to open the plugin hehe

This is a bug since the release... Many complaints in here. But hey the standard answer seems to be "we had not one single complaint outside KVR" (besides the bug reports on gearslutz and in their own forum too) :D

The good thing is: if you can't open the ui then your graphics card won't melt down :clown: :clown: :clown:


Ha ha ha...but No! The plugin works like a charm since 1.3.0 on my system. I'm really a bit surprised that so called musicians can only complain about a piece of software that probably must be the fault of everything (no in computer history it has never been a misconfigured system, crapy gc drivers or out dated hw)...if you ever dealt with computers before...all guys here need the perfect scalable gui, they "order" the features they need and sometimes put these in words that make me think not the sun is the center of our system...and they want demanding features that require vendors to go for leading edge apis to implement them...they want feature after feature and all in one place...if then we end up with a cluttered gui that tries to make a good compromise between number of accessible features and useability...they complain again.
What I see and *hear* when I open and use Avenger to make musik is a leading edge synth, one of the most capable on the market today! And I'm freaking glad I bought it. And I'm freaking glad Manuel is still here and listening patiently...though he said time after time that this thread is NOT the official support forum...
I hope some of you guys (not all) can find a more constructive way of dealing with their individual problems and can respect that there is a majority of users that is really glad to be Avenger Users...
Sorry for venting...

Well said, I agree.
i7/16gb/win10,64bit/Live9/MTotal. + Surface Pro 4 (i5)
User avatar
Klinke1
KVRian
 
590 posts since 18 Feb, 2011

Postby Klinke1; Thu May 24, 2018 4:38 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

..but the music plays at kvr.
(Here is where it's at.)

And all the demands are evidence of the hype and success.
- WonderEcho -
User avatar
hvyen
KVRist
 
86 posts since 15 Sep, 2008, from Germany

Postby hvyen; Thu May 24, 2018 10:54 am Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

I just see that the demo is only available as 1.2.6 version. There is now version 1.3.5 out. I'm just saying it, that you do not miss any features that did not exist with 1.2.6. Hopefully you could solve the problem with the black screen after updating the gpu drivers. The problem is known (not just with Avenger). In most cases, the plugin, Manuel or Vengeance are not to blame if something does not work. I do not know how many pc / mac configurations there are on this planet?! On the pc there are also about 8000 graphics cards, OS's and other different stuff. Unfortunately it can happen from time to time that something does not work for one or the other guy. Manuel and Rene are working very hard on Avenger and then there are still some cool new features with every update and free of charge!

To the screen problem: Because of the 100 pages screen talk I have tried Avenger with three three different screens: imac 27 inch, hp 24 and 22 inch screen. I also changed the resolution on the monitor and the size directly in the plugin. Unfortunately some settings (resolutions) make sure that the whole picture can be a bit blurry and then avenger is of course also blurry, but that's not the fault by Avenger. Relatively, then it looks good with the fonts anyway. I do not want to reject the problem here. I think it's really shitty if it does not look good on some of your screens. Which operating system is the problem because? Mac / PC?
marzelli
KVRer
 
20 posts since 13 May, 2018

Postby marzelli; Thu May 24, 2018 3:55 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

hvyen wrote:I just see that the demo is only available as 1.2.6 version. There is now version 1.3.5 out.

I asked for a newer demo version some time ago because I tested Rapid too and msvs wrote they will update it soon. I wanted to get more information in their forum but it redirects me to a nonexistent facebook page!? Wanted to know if the demo works without the factory library too?

Anyways I got the impression it gets bloated more with every update. New features are cool but not if you have to fill every blank space in the ui with more knobs and buttons :lol: I'd like to ask if there's some kind of light version planned (for example I don't need the big factory lib, multisampling, a drum seq or the keyboard thing) like with phalanx back then?
User avatar
msvs
KVRian
 
1103 posts since 18 Apr, 2011

Postby msvs; Thu May 24, 2018 8:35 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

no, a "light" version without factory content is not planned. And no: the demoversion does not run without the factory content available. It contains more than just presets. Its everything which creates sound, incl. the oscs.
An updated demoversion will come with 1.3.5 very soon. We wanted to wait and see, that this version is really working well, before adding it as demoversion.

The V-forum has been deleted and closed permanently yesterday because of the gdpr. It would have been to much work to update this to fit all the new rules. It has been running for over 15 years with thousands of friendly-atmosphere posts and cool guys and real life meetings with them - it was a sad and painful decision to do :(
tapekiller
KVRer
 
17 posts since 6 Nov, 2014

Postby tapekiller; Thu May 24, 2018 10:54 pm Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

msvs wrote:The V-forum has been deleted and closed permanently yesterday because of the gdpr. It would have been to much work to update this to fit all the new rules. It has been running for over 15 years with thousands of friendly-atmosphere posts and cool guys and real life meetings with them - it was a sad and painful decision to do :(

What is the appropriate place to give feedback about the synth? If what's said on KVR doesn't count I'd love to use the appropriate platform.
Thanks in advance.
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