Best complete bundle for orchestral composing

[Armagibbon]

Yea I hear that. Most stuff is personal pref but I think the ewql peeps dropped the ball on the last 2 sections. They got me good with those paid f*ckin full price at launch... teach me to be a goddamn fanboy ahahaha

[Phazma]

@Armagibbon: Would be very apreciated if you could share the list!

Hmm.. would it be stupid to get both the EWQL Hollywood Gold and Symphonic Gold? So that I could use the first one for more epic filmscore-ish stuff and the latter one for more classical sound and if the instruments of one of the libraries don't convince me for a certain task I could use the ones from the other library? Probably still going to miss smaller groups of instruments recorded closely for chamber / band music but I think I can get that later on. Still need to check the VSL libraries out more but they seem pretty expensive.. does the Special Edition Vol.1 contain (almost) all instruments and articulations like EWQL or is it pretty restricted?

I also checked out Choir Libraries. I actually remembered that I have Olympus Elements already but it seems more suitable for long static vovels and gregorian chants kind of stuff. I'd like something more dynamic and "voicey" to compliment it. I found Performance Samples Oceania that sounds awsome to me, pretty well suited for O Fortuna like choirs. And Fluffy Audio Dominus seems to be something inbetween Olympus and Oceania, more on the church-choir side. What do you think of those? I am leaning towards Oceania as it seems to contrast Olympus very well.

[electro]

Wallander WIVI gives you everything except Strings and Percussion.

[Elektronisch]

I personaly think that NI Komplete 12 Ultimate is great for that because it includes various types of strings and 1-click strings and drum libraries. No need to deny the value there since basicly you are set and go with this bundle.

[wagtunes]

I personaly think that NI Komplete 12 Ultimate is great for that because it includes various types of strings and 1-click strings and drum libraries. No need to deny the value there since basicly you are set and go with this bundle.

Except the actual quality (I have it) compared to the top libraries is crap. It's fine for pop stuff but for serious orchestral work, not even close.

[fmr]

Still need to check the VSL libraries out more but they seem pretty expensive.. does the Special Edition Vol.1 contain (almost) all instruments and articulations like EWQL or is it pretty restricted

With the Vol. 1 Bundle (which includes the Vol. 1 and the Vol. 1 Plus) you get a complete basic symphonic orchestra with a pretty comprehensive set of articulations. The basic already includes many articulations, but with the Plus you get much more (more than you get with the other libraries, I think). Not at all limited.

The other volumes expand the number of instruments, including a choir, and include alternative sets of strings (in Vol. 3).

Here is an example of what the Plus expansion adds: "For example, while the solo violin’s articulations in the Special Edition Volume 1 include staccato, détaché, sustained, sforzato, tremolo, pizzicato, legato and portamento, the PLUS Volume supplements these with the addition of the following articulations: Short détaché, fortepiano, snap-pizzicato, col legno, half and whole tone trills, Repetition Performances (legato & spiccato), fast repetitions (150, 170, 190 bpm), artificial harmonics (staccato & sustain), and ponticello (staccato, sustain, tremolo)."

[jancivil]

Does EWQL SO even have recorded legato, I mean real, not scripted pseudo-legato? If not, it's not a serious choice.
As far as I have followed it the answer is no. If that has changed over the last ~3 yrs I stand corrected.

Is it still the PLAY interface as of PLAY 4? Not conducive to orchestral work if you want facility of workflow to get shit done on time. It's just weak. It's awkward, it's a PITA. If that has changed into something completely different for PLAY 5, I stand corrected.

If you're going to get into it for the long haul, EWQL is not the right choice. Without getting into 'the sound' which isn't worth arguing about really, there are some definite obstacles.

Here is a quickie screenshot of VSL Vienna Instruments Pro 2 interface (Bass Flute, which I picked up recently).
At left are the matrices: short and long, ie,, staccato, portato, sustain; perf, ie., legato and marcato performance regular and faster; dynamics which is extensive. EDIT: this is a small portion of this instrument, I chose it and loaded it up in a few seconds.

Screen Shot 2018-05-26 at 10.21.34 AM.png

Look at it a minute and see all what's on there in one page. Now, I would love to see a post showing PLAY.

If you are starting out and have not orchestrated in the physical real world, I highly recommend stepping back a moment and reflecting. In the OP, the desire to learn how to articulate instruments was mentioned. So, do you want fully articulated instruments or cut-down which you already ran up against in the VSL Demo provided in KFL.
You can't be in an enormous hurry to have music to show and be serious at the same time. If you're in a great hurry, get Symphobia, it's on sale.

[wagtunes]

Does EWQL SO even have recorded legato, I mean real, not scripted pseudo-legato? If not, it's not a serious choice.
As far as I have followed it the answer is no. If that has changed over the last ~3 yrs I stand corrected.

Is it still the PLAY interface as of PLAY 4? Not conducive to orchestral work if you want facility of workflow to get shit done on time. It's just weak. It's awkward, it's a PITA. If that has changed into something completely different for PLAY 5, I stand corrected.

If you're going to get into it for the long haul, EWQL is not the right choice. Without getting into 'the sound' which isn't worth arguing about really, there are some definite obstacles.

Here is a quickie screenshot of VSL Vienna Instruments Pro 2 interface (Bass Flute, which I picked up recently).
At left are the matrices: short and long, ie,, staccato, portato, sustain; perf, ie., legato and marcato performance regular and faster; dynamics which is extensive. EDIT: this is a small portion of this instrument, I chose it and loaded it up in a few seconds.

Screen Shot 2018-05-26 at 10.21.34 AM.png

Look at it a minute and see all what's on there in one page. Now, I would love to see a post showing PLAY.

If you are starting out and have not orchestrated in the physical real world, I highly recommend stepping back a moment and reflecting. In the OP, the desire to learn how to articulate instruments was mentioned. So, do you want fully articulated instruments or cut-down which you already ran up against in the VSL Demo provided in KFL.
You can't be in an enormous hurry to have music to show and be serious at the same time. If you're in a great hurry, get Symphobia, it's on sale.

There is no question that Vienna is THE choice for the very, very, very serious. It is also expensive as hell, which is why I stayed away from it back in 2013 when I first got my orchestral stuff. I simply don't have THAT kind of money to blow on orchestral sounds. Okay, nobody is arguing that EWQL or any other orchestra is as good. But that kind of greatness comes at a steep price that not all of us can afford.

[jancivil]

Illustrating 'performance' articulations a bit:

Screen Shot 2018-05-26 at 10.34.56 AM.png

So hitting the same note there has 3 'repetitions', each may have its own attack humanization which may be stored as presets as are shown in the drop-down there. Those are the factory ones, roll your own is available as well.
That's 'marcato performance'. So they have recorded variants extensively. The idea of this kind of depth is not 'mock-ups', it's about the capacity to create viable realistic performances so people aren't going 'something ain't right here'.

This division we're going to experience here really, in my estimation really comes down to 'do you want the full experience of orchestra and its instruments, in which case don't you want to KNOW' vs 'do you want to have a general impression of orchestra for people that don't care all that much and not want to really get bogged down in knowledge or get lost in the weeds'.

As to cost, if you want a huge bundle, VSL prices bundles eg., the Scoring Bundle bought all at once separately would run around 2400, the bundle runs like 1500. Once you buy, your price in the area of their libraries comes down consequently. So, it's long haul vs what for me is a false economy.


Sorry, EWQL annoys the crap out of me.

[jancivil]

There is no question that Vienna is THE choice for the very, very, very serious. It is also expensive as hell, which is why I stayed away from it back in 2013 when I first got my orchestral stuff. I simply don't have THAT kind of money to blow on orchestral sounds. Okay, nobody is arguing that EWQL or any other orchestra is as good. But that kind of greatness comes at a steep price that not all of us can afford.

There is a middle path, too. Me, I bought GPO (no number, before it was even packaged in a box) for 240 or 249; then in Guitar Center EWQL SO Silver was 100 bucks out the door. There are things in both I would still use if I had them on a drive today. But that's very special stuff.

Again, if you get into the big libraries, the Cube is 10 grand or something, still. But that kind of move is for someone that is sure to be working and getting paid well. I don't know the OP or what their future professional viability or lifestyle is, I'm making an objective assessment first of all based in getting to know the orch. in a cogent manner, and PLAY definitely is not the better option for. Time-wasting.

Kontakt, NI Soundiron Woodwinds is definitely a 'top library' IME with a nice interface.

At any rate, for the 'solo instruments to fill in if all you bought was tutti sections', definitely go for VSL as the prices are NICE.
You get what you pay for; I would bet that if someone actually did a cost:benefit based in articulation that VSL is not going to be more expensive and maybe less expensive.

[wagtunes]

Illustrating 'performance' articulations a bit:

Screen Shot 2018-05-26 at 10.34.56 AM.png

So hitting the same note there has 3 'repetitions', each may have its own attack humanization which may be stored as presets as are shown in the drop-down there. Those are the factory ones, roll your own is available as well.
That's 'marcato performance'. So they have recorded variants extensively. The idea of this kind of depth is not 'mock-ups', it's about the capacity to create viable realistic performances so people aren't going 'something ain't right here'.

This division we're going to experience here really, in my estimation really comes down to 'do you want the full experience of orchestra and its instruments, in which case don't you want to KNOW' vs 'do you want to have a general impression of orchestra for people that don't care all that much and not want to really get bogged down in knowledge or get lost in the weeds'.

As to cost, if you want a huge bundle, VSL prices bundles eg., the Scoring Bundle bought all at once separately would run around 2400, the bundle runs like 1500. Once you buy, your price in the area of their libraries comes down consequently. So, it's long haul vs what for me is a false economy.


Sorry, EWQL annoys the crap out of me.

I understand your dislike of Play 4. Instruments get dropped constantly. Load times are crazy and I have a very powerful PC.

I'm going to assume that Vienna has no such thing as a demo. You spend your few thousand bucks and hold your breath. Believe me, it was the same with EWQL but at least the cost was tolerable. Imagine spending $3,000 and, for whatever reason, it doesn't work on your system. Yeah, my wife would really enjoy hearing that.

[wagtunes]

There is no question that Vienna is THE choice for the very, very, very serious. It is also expensive as hell, which is why I stayed away from it back in 2013 when I first got my orchestral stuff. I simply don't have THAT kind of money to blow on orchestral sounds. Okay, nobody is arguing that EWQL or any other orchestra is as good. But that kind of greatness comes at a steep price that not all of us can afford.

There is a middle path, too. Me, I bought GPO (no number, before it was even packaged in a box) for 240 or 249; then in Guitar Center EWQL SO Silver was 100 bucks out the door. There are things in both I would still use if I had them on a drive today. But that's very special stuff.

Again, if you get into the big libraries, the Cube is 10 grand or something, still. But that kind of move is for someone that is sure to be working and getting paid well. I don't know the OP or what their future professional viability or lifestyle is, I'm making an objective assessment first of all based in getting to know the orch. in a cogent manner, and PLAY definitely is not the better option for. Time-wasting.

Kontakt, NI Soundiron Woodwinds is definitely a 'top library' IME with a nice interface.

At any rate, for the 'solo instruments to fill in if all you bought was tutti sections', definitely go for VSL as the prices are NICE.
You get what you pay for; I would bet that if someone actually did a cost:benefit based in articulation that VSL is not going to be more expensive and maybe less expensive.

And it all depends on what you're using this stuff for. Me, using it just for myself with no income to derive, I can live with EWQL, though Play 4 does drive me nuts at times.

Maybe someday when I'm independently wealthy.

[jancivil]

Well, $3000 is a lot of money for a hobby unless you're pretty well off.

As to 'not work on your system', VSL is not EWQL!

Right now because of multiple personal catastrophe, I'm working with a 2011 MBP, a seriously outdated not very powerful machine to begin with and I really did load all that in like 3 seconds. They make the most efficient software I have ever used. The FX are using far, far less machine than say an IKMM plugin.

I am not getting paid or any break by VSL for saying this. There is no NDA or anything, I just find over these 15 yrs of doing virtual music they have done more.

One reason I detest EWQL as a company traces back to when VE Pro first came out. EW did_not_work in it. I went to see if their forum was going to provide any clue as to this, and first of all, the question(s) (not just mine) were relegated to the hardware sub-forum, which no one cares about. It isn't hardware, ok. THEN my post, which wasn't even bellicose, was DELETED. This same experience was reported from others at VSL forums. The big honcho of EW went on about how his idea (which involved the same old/same old as when people had to have vast server farms to run Giga, you need an audio interface for each slave.) was better (hence the Hardware board). AND this never_came_to_pass. So he was just full of shit, and totally blamed VSL's engineers while it appears he wasn't cooperating with them even once.

[Elektronisch]

I personaly think that NI Komplete 12 Ultimate is great for that because it includes various types of strings and 1-click strings and drum libraries. No need to deny the value there since basicly you are set and go with this bundle.

Except the actual quality (I have it) compared to the top libraries is crap. It's fine for pop stuff but for serious orchestral work, not even close.

I tend to ignore this since i do not believe you really can tell the difference what quality is.
Sorry, its just that your orchestral compositions have proven to be worse then any orchesrtal demo on the NI website (i also own the product).

[wagtunes]

Well, $3000 is a lot of money for a hobby unless you're pretty well off.

As to 'not work on your system', VSL is not EWQL!

Right now because of multiple personal catastrophe, I'm working with a 2011 MBP, a seriously outdated not very powerful machine to begin with and I really did load all that in like 3 seconds. They make the most efficient software I have ever used. The FX are using far, far less machine than say an IKMM plugin.

I am not getting paid or any break by VSL for saying this. There is no NDA or anything, I just find over these 15 yrs of doing virtual music they have done more.

One reason I detest EWQL as a company traces back to when VE Pro first came out. EW did_not_work in it. I went to see if their forum was going to provide any clue as to this, and first of all, the question(s) (not just mine) were relegated to the hardware sub-forum, which no one cares about. It isn't hardware, ok. THEN my post, which wasn't even bellicose, was DELETED. This same experience was reported from others at VSL forums. The big honcho of EW went on about how his idea (which involved the same old/same old as when people had to have vast server farms to run Giga, you need an audio interface for each slave.) was better (hence the Hardware board). AND this never_came_to_pass. So he was just full of shit, and totally blamed VSL's engineers while it appears he wasn't cooperating with them even once.

Forgetting about all that, if you have a trained ear (and I've been listening to classical music since I was like 5) you can clearly hear that Vienna is superior to EWQL in sound. Of course nothing is a real symphony orchestra (I still listen to WQXR every once in a while) and because of that, I'm not too disappointed that I don't have the top library for doing this stuff. Because even Vienna falls short of the real thing.