Best complete bundle for orchestral composing

[wagtunes]

I personaly think that NI Komplete 12 Ultimate is great for that because it includes various types of strings and 1-click strings and drum libraries. No need to deny the value there since basicly you are set and go with this bundle.

Except the actual quality (I have it) compared to the top libraries is crap. It's fine for pop stuff but for serious orchestral work, not even close.

I tend to ignore this since i do not believe you really can tell the difference what quality is.
Sorry, its just that your orchestral compositions have proven to be worse then any orchesrtal demo on the NI website (i also own the product).

Fine. Don't take my word for it. Ask Jan, if you don't get laughed at for even suggesting Komplete

Oh, my Orchestral compositions were done with GPO which IS crap. I've never DONE an orchestral composition with a great library.

[Elektronisch]

I personaly think that NI Komplete 12 Ultimate is great for that because it includes various types of strings and 1-click strings and drum libraries. No need to deny the value there since basicly you are set and go with this bundle.

Except the actual quality (I have it) compared to the top libraries is crap. It's fine for pop stuff but for serious orchestral work, not even close.

I tend to ignore this since i do not believe you really can tell the difference what quality is.
Sorry, its just that your orchestral compositions have proven to be worse then any orchesrtal demo on the NI website (i also own the product).

Fine. Don't take my word for it. Ask Jan, if you don't get laughed at for even suggesting Kontakt.

Oh, my Orchestral compositions were done with GPO which IS crap. I've never DONE an orchestral composition with a great library.

I dont know who Jan is, i dont care if ill get laughed by him. When i was selecting uni to study the dean at the uni said FL is a toy and laughed at it and said Reason is far superior. So i dont give a crap about authority i have well trained ears and i can hear whats quality and whats not.

There may be libraries that are very expensive and are better in a sense of flexibility they offer but there is no denial komplete orchestral stuff is high quality and you can make very confincing orchestral scores.

[Armagibbon]

@Armagibbon: Would be very apreciated if you could share the list!

Sure thing fam heres the list with some lazy edits to be current. Was just some notes to myself when I went to hang with some local peeps in LA and later what I saw on vi control b4 I picked up what I got now. Still might be outdated as f*ck now but I still use what I got back then and not much new grabs my eyes you know?

Strings...
For that big trailer sound its personal pref for either hollywood, lass, spitfire or berlin but they always combined with symphobia and synth layers... I got symphobia, hollywood and lass they all workin fine... picked up adventure strings and its f*ckin sweet for speed...
Chamber sound is always spitfire...

Winds...
Berlin woodwinds everywhere like every f*ckin time. Any time it aint berlin its vienna just personal pref seems like... I got berlin it works just fine...

Brass...
Sample modeling or chris hein solo layered up for ensembles loud and soft. For quick loud work its hollywood or cinebrass sometimes layered with project sam brass and just spitfire for soft. I got hollywood and sample modeling cus imo soft work aint gonna be done quick anyway... picked up adventure brass so dont use hollywood much except the horns and bones for loud ass trailers...

Perc...
Biggest variety here... get standards in kontakt factory lib, true strike, cineperc or spitfire redux and that is all personal pref. Mix in with a buncha big or weird shit like heaviocity damage or hz perc or whatever. New perc is a big deal in scoring so everyones got everything and there aint a best starting point if you wanna play catch up... I got cineperc for standards and it works just fine...

Harp...
Personal pref symphonic sphere or kontakt factory. Big new one is berlin harps and I dunno a thing about it and dont care... got hollywood harp and dont touch it cus imo kontakt factory lib beats it...

Piano...
Spitfire orchestral grand for big mix and blends and then pretty much any other piano lib you like for close work. Noticed ni grandeur gets alot of love from the big cats in LA and I think its damn well earned...

Choir...
Everything lmao. They all sound different and do different shit. Buy what you need when you need it. That ewql wordbuilder choir thing is kinda shitty but sustains sound alright. List of choir devs I saw alot... soundiron, strezov, 8dio, cinesamples... picked up soundiron olympus and use that for everything just fine... audiobro got a new childrens choir out that sounds real nice but dont think I need it cus I dont write for spielberg ahahaha...

Fx...
Symphobia first then go hunt for any other weird shit you might need around the web ahahaha

Now besides all that shit heres the truth... you can do some convincing work with just what you find in that kontakt factory lib if you got the patience to learn and know what the real thing sounds like. You gotta do this pro? Def check out new libs to pick up... but for hobby they do alright. Heard some talented cats on vi control make em sing like real.

Peace.

[wagtunes]

I personaly think that NI Komplete 12 Ultimate is great for that because it includes various types of strings and 1-click strings and drum libraries. No need to deny the value there since basicly you are set and go with this bundle.

Except the actual quality (I have it) compared to the top libraries is crap. It's fine for pop stuff but for serious orchestral work, not even close.

I tend to ignore this since i do not believe you really can tell the difference what quality is.
Sorry, its just that your orchestral compositions have proven to be worse then any orchesrtal demo on the NI website (i also own the product).

Fine. Don't take my word for it. Ask Jan, if you don't get laughed at for even suggesting Kontakt.

Oh, my Orchestral compositions were done with GPO which IS crap. I've never DONE an orchestral composition with a great library.

I dont know who Jan is, i dont care if ill get laughed by him. When i was selecting uni to study the dean at the uni said FL is a toy and laughed at it and said Reason is far superior. So i dont give a crap about authority i have well trained ears and i can hear whats quality and whats not.

There may be libraries that are very expensive and are better in a sense of flexibility they offer but there is no denial komplete orchestral stuff is high quality and you can make very confincing orchestral scores.

So I suppose you think that orchestral libraries sound like real symphony orchestras too.

[Elektronisch]

I personaly think that NI Komplete 12 Ultimate is great for that because it includes various types of strings and 1-click strings and drum libraries. No need to deny the value there since basicly you are set and go with this bundle.

Except the actual quality (I have it) compared to the top libraries is crap. It's fine for pop stuff but for serious orchestral work, not even close.

I tend to ignore this since i do not believe you really can tell the difference what quality is.
Sorry, its just that your orchestral compositions have proven to be worse then any orchesrtal demo on the NI website (i also own the product).

Fine. Don't take my word for it. Ask Jan, if you don't get laughed at for even suggesting Kontakt.

Oh, my Orchestral compositions were done with GPO which IS crap. I've never DONE an orchestral composition with a great library.

I dont know who Jan is, i dont care if ill get laughed by him. When i was selecting uni to study the dean at the uni said FL is a toy and laughed at it and said Reason is far superior. So i dont give a crap about authority i have well trained ears and i can hear whats quality and whats not.

There may be libraries that are very expensive and are better in a sense of flexibility they offer but there is no denial komplete orchestral stuff is high quality and you can make very confincing orchestral scores.

So I suppose you think that orchestral libraries sound like real symphony orchestras too.

What is this stupid question even about ? Whats it to you always trying to convinve that your opinion is right? dont you have anything better going in your life? I suggested what is worth attention, you dont need to try disprove or push your own opinion against others. I dont want to have all that nonsense endless discussion again, go away, do something useful, its weekend.

Peace

[wagtunes]

I personaly think that NI Komplete 12 Ultimate is great for that because it includes various types of strings and 1-click strings and drum libraries. No need to deny the value there since basicly you are set and go with this bundle.

Except the actual quality (I have it) compared to the top libraries is crap. It's fine for pop stuff but for serious orchestral work, not even close.

I tend to ignore this since i do not believe you really can tell the difference what quality is.
Sorry, its just that your orchestral compositions have proven to be worse then any orchesrtal demo on the NI website (i also own the product).

Fine. Don't take my word for it. Ask Jan, if you don't get laughed at for even suggesting Kontakt.

Oh, my Orchestral compositions were done with GPO which IS crap. I've never DONE an orchestral composition with a great library.

I dont know who Jan is, i dont care if ill get laughed by him. When i was selecting uni to study the dean at the uni said FL is a toy and laughed at it and said Reason is far superior. So i dont give a crap about authority i have well trained ears and i can hear whats quality and whats not.

There may be libraries that are very expensive and are better in a sense of flexibility they offer but there is no denial komplete orchestral stuff is high quality and you can make very confincing orchestral scores.

So I suppose you think that orchestral libraries sound like real symphony orchestras too.

What is this stupid question even about ? Whats it to you always trying to convinve that your opinion is right? dont you have anything better going in your life? I suggested what is worth attention, you dont need to try disprove or push your own opinion against others. I dont want to have all that nonsense endless discussion again, go away, do something useful, its weekend.

Peace

That pretty much answers my question.

I'm glad you're content with Komplete. Pro scoring composers will not be. And I doubt the OP will be either. But hey, you know what? I don't really care. He can get whatever he likes. it makes no difference to me. I just don't want to see people get things and end up disappointed with their purchase because I know what that feels like. But, whatever.

I'm done with this conversation.

[Elektronisch]

[fmr]

There is no question that Vienna is THE choice for the very, very, very serious. It is also expensive as hell, which is why I stayed away from it back in 2013 when I first got my orchestral stuff. I simply don't have THAT kind of money to blow on orchestral sounds. Okay, nobody is arguing that EWQL or any other orchestra is as good. But that kind of greatness comes at a steep price that not all of us can afford.

It's not THAT expensive. It depends on the package you start with. Special Edition Vol 1 Bundle (which means Vol 1 and Vol. 1 Plus) costs 535 euros and offers more than Hollywood Orchestra Gold already. If you pay attention, every now and then there are some sales (not many, that's true, but there are some). I was fortunate and bought Vol. 1 Bundle and Vol. 2 Bundle second hand for a really good price (don't remember how much anymore. Lasst year, I took advantage of a promotion, and I bought Vol. 3 and Vol. 4 for like 350 euros or something.

[Niowiad]

I finally decided to demo Pianoteq after reading some of the above posts.
Amazing... not just the pianos but the entire package of instruments.
Very expensive for me at the moment (only interested eventually in the $350 PRO version with all the tweaking features), I'm not sure I'll get more virtual pianos at least until I'm on EW ComposerCloud, but Pianoteq definitely sounds like the future. Wow.

[wagtunes]

There is no question that Vienna is THE choice for the very, very, very serious. It is also expensive as hell, which is why I stayed away from it back in 2013 when I first got my orchestral stuff. I simply don't have THAT kind of money to blow on orchestral sounds. Okay, nobody is arguing that EWQL or any other orchestra is as good. But that kind of greatness comes at a steep price that not all of us can afford.

It's not THAT expensive. It depends on the package you start with. Special Edition Vol 1 Bundle (which means Vol 1 and Vol. 1 Plus) costs 535 euros and offers more than Hollywood Orchestra Gold already. If you pay attention, every now and then there are some sales (not many, that's true, but there are some). I was fortunate and bought Vol. 1 Bundle and Vol. 2 Bundle second hand for a really good price (don't remember how much anymore. Lasst year, I took advantage of a promotion, and I bought Vol. 3 and Vol. 4 for like 350 euros or something.

Comparing something to Hollywood Orchestra Gold, which is meh, isn't saying much. But yeah, I guess it depends on the quality of the samples, articulations, mic positions (critical) and ease of use. The problem is, you can't demo this stuff. You have to buy it on faith.

But here's the bottom line. I'm content with EWQL brass. It's the strings that I'm interested in. Right now, the whole strings package is 5,185 euros. I don't have that kind of money. Unless I can get a complete strings library (otherwise what's the point) then there's no point getting anything.

Why do I feel that way? Simple. Because one weak link in your sounds and the whole production is ruined. So it has to be all or nothing if you're going to do this right.

[jancivil]

I don't know exactly what's in Komplete at the moment, as I never bought it. Last I looked, the regular Komplete didn't have nearly enough that I don't already have to justify, what was it, 2 or 3 hundred dollars for me (* $399! Hell to the no.) with the Kontakt or Reaktor qualifying product to upgrade from. It seems like there was not any viable orchestral library in the regular version. So, let me look!*

None. Session Horns/Strings. I have worked with the latter and I wouldn't give you more than 20 bucks for it. Run to the toilet, honey, comb your hair-air.
For Ultimate, only Symphony Essentials and that's a no from me. So, in either case if one thinks that is just A-Ok, one is just not serious about it, and I don't care how Golden you think your Ears are. Stick with EDM, you know.


The difference between samples - NB: Danny Elfman uses samples in what you hear in movie theaters, although most of it is not albeit most percussion is - and 'real', for a theatrical movie is that the movie is going to play in a large theater with heavy amplification so this is going to show the lack of proper space. So for TV work, very few are watching in such a big space and even the people with a giant screen and a surround system are in their living room with a lot of absorption; not to mention the turnaround time for a TV series is quite more of a rush job than a movie typically is.

As to VSL pricing, I have to look at the site as I don't put all my eggs in one basket like some 'complete' bundle is really viable for me. Ok: SE Strings Vol I displays 130 euros as my price. YMMV but it's not going to be a lot more I bet.

Solo and Orch. strings: Staccato, détaché, sustained, sforzato, tremolo, pizzicato
Legato, portamento
If you want col sordino, with mutes, you have to buy SE Vol 2 strings.
(You know who has a good muted 'lush strings'? GARRITAN. Version 2 with the upgrade for Kontakt 2. )

Is EWQL giving more bang for the buck than this? I mean than VSL SE Strings Vol I. 130 euro/150 USD divided by 8 artics...If EWQL whatever is a better result: Subtract 70% of this for the PLAY.

[jancivil]

SE Vol I, all of it: comes to 290 bucks for me. I'm getting a slight break for this or that reason (having to do with purchases).

I won't recommend it particularly, because I'd have to significantly upgrade from that as the winds and brass are just too LITE.

[wagtunes]

I don't know exactly what's in Komplete at the moment, as I never bought it. Last I looked, the regular Komplete didn't have nearly enough that I don't already have to justify, what was it, 2 or 3 hundred dollars for me (* $399! Hell to the no.) with the Kontakt or Reaktor qualifying product to upgrade from. It seems like there was not any viable orchestral library in the regular version. So, let me look!*

None. Session Horns/Strings. I have worked with the latter and I wouldn't give you more than 20 bucks for it. Run to the toilet, honey, comb your hair-air.
For Ultimate, only Symphony Essentials and that's a no from me. So, in either case if one thinks that is just A-Ok, one is just not serious about it, and I don't care how Golden you think your Ears are. Stick with EDM, you know.


The difference between samples - NB: Danny Elfman uses samples in what you hear in movie theaters, although most of it is not albeit most percussion is - and 'real', for a theatrical movie is that the movie is going to play in a large theater with heavy amplification so this is going to show the lack of proper space. So for TV work, very few are watching in such a big space and even the people with a giant screen and a surround system are in their living room with a lot of absorption; not to mention the turnaround time for a TV series is quite more of a rush job than a movie typically is.

As to VSL pricing, I have to look at the site as I don't put all my eggs in one basket like some 'complete' bundle is really viable for me. Ok: SE Strings Vol I displays 130 euros as my price. YMMV but it's not going to be a lot more I bet.

Solo and Orch. strings: Staccato, détaché, sustained, sforzato, tremolo, pizzicato
Legato, portamento
If you want col sordino, with mutes, you have to buy SE Vol 2 strings.
(You know who has a good muted 'lush strings'? GARRITAN. Version 2 with the upgrade for Kontakt 2. )

Is EWQL giving more bang for the buck than this? I mean than VSL SE Strings Vol I. 130 euro/150 USD divided by 8 artics...If EWQL whatever is a better result: Subtract 70% of this for the PLAY.

Okay, I just checked out the package that goes for 130 euros. You hardly get anything at all. What's the point? Not that I can get anything for 130 euros from EWQL but seriously, what's the point?

If you're going to go Vienna, you do it right or you don't do it at all.

At least that's the way I look at it.

[noiseboyuk]

@Armagibbon: Would be very apreciated if you could share the list!

Hmm.. would it be stupid to get both the EWQL Hollywood Gold and Symphonic Gold? So that I could use the first one for more epic filmscore-ish stuff and the latter one for more classical sound and if the instruments of one of the libraries don't convince me for a certain task I could use the ones from the other library? Probably still going to miss smaller groups of instruments recorded closely for chamber / band music but I think I can get that later on. Still need to check the VSL libraries out more but they seem pretty expensive.. does the Special Edition Vol.1 contain (almost) all instruments and articulations like EWQL or is it pretty restricted?

I also checked out Choir Libraries. I actually remembered that I have Olympus Elements already but it seems more suitable for long static vovels and gregorian chants kind of stuff. I'd like something more dynamic and "voicey" to compliment it. I found Performance Samples Oceania that sounds awsome to me, pretty well suited for O Fortuna like choirs. And Fluffy Audio Dominus seems to be something inbetween Olympus and Oceania, more on the church-choir side. What do you think of those? I am leaning towards Oceania as it seems to contrast Olympus very well.

As you can tell from the replies, there's a lot of opinions on the subject presented as absolute fact. Your job coming new into the field - and this isn't easy - is to separate the good advice from the bad.

Here's my $0.02. The EW Hollywood Orchestra Gold deal is a superb start. It was recorded in a relatively dry hall, so the difference between close and stage mics isn't nearly as pronounced as with Symphonic Orchestra, so Gold is a good choice and uses far less resources than Diamond. Play 5 is actually a solid player, Play 4 was horrible. Except quite a steep learning curve, and you'll need a fairly powerful computer, but great results are possible with perseverance and practice, and its a terrific deal.

I definitely wouldn't describe the difference between Hollywood and Symphonic as epic film vs classical. If anything, the older Symphonic library can be more epic sounding than the newer one. It has a great sounding hall baked in and there's some real magic in those older samples. Its main weakness is no legato. I don't have Hollywood winds or percussion and I hear winds in particular aren't great.

Choirs - I'm very happy with Soundiron Requiem Lite, but there are many other good options.

As for all the other choices, imo it's bad advice to think of VSL being in a class of their own price or quality-wise. I have some terrific VSL stuff, and then there's plenty of poor stuff too - it's case of playing to their strengths and side-stepping their weaknesses. This applies to all developers really. CineSamples, Spitfire Audio, AudioBro and Orchestral Tools all also make excellent libraries that go through the whole orchestra, to pick four very reputable names with a solid track record, and all used by the pros routinely. ProjectSAM are superb for bigger sections - their Symphobia range is well worth looking at in the current half price sale, but has a totally different philosophy to the instrument-by-instrument approach. A great complement to it though, imo, and invaluable for quick working. Then there are dozens of other smaller libraries that can make fantastic stuff - I'm a really big fan of VIR Harmonic's Bohemian solo strings for example. There are a few names to be more wary of - Garritan and Kirk Hunter spring to mind.

But now to two main pieces of advice, above all the others. First - don't buy too much at once. Do plenty of homework, then pick something and take time to really learn it. After a while you'll get a feel for what you like and what you don't.

But second - in general, don't get your advice on orchestral libraries from KVR. VI Control is the big home for orchestral music discussion, or http://www.thesounboard.net is a quieter place where folks are very helpful and experienced (disclaimer, I helped run the latter until recently but still an enthusiastic member though I've stepped down as a mod). You'll need to register to take a proper look at the latter, but it's free.

KVR is great for synths and EDM, but orchestral is not its strength.

Good luck in your quest!

[jancivil]

Solo and Orch. strings: Staccato, détaché, sustained, sforzato, tremolo, pizzicato
Legato, portamento

Is EWQL giving more bang for the buck than this? I mean than VSL SE Strings Vol I. 130 euro/150 USD divided by 8 artics...

Okay, I just checked out the package that goes for 130 euros. You hardly get anything at all. What's the point? Not that I can get anything for 130 euros from EWQL but seriously, what's the point?

If you're going to go Vienna, you do it right or you don't do it at all.

At least that's the way I look at it.

Well, in context you'll find fmr and I stating or implying the economy of a starter set you can build from, vs buying...
EWQL Hollywood Gold Strings. Which is, I just looked, quite more articulated for... it's half off for Memorial Day! $199!

I'm not trying to sell you on buying VSL, that was a response to 'it's the most expensive library in the known universe', just like when I mentioned the 1500 bucks (JRR shop, probably slightly higher directly from VSL) for 'Scoring Bundle'. So I guess no one has ever spent 1500 bucks on an EWQL complete-ish bundle?

I cannot recommend it because the user interface is so whack, and the manuals are so opaque and poorly-written and, Doug Rogers is a douche, and... I do not like it!

I don't care what any of you do but there are points I find a little bit suspect.