Best complete bundle for orchestral composing

[noiseboyuk]

Last post in this thread from me - I think you’re trying to run before you can walk, and you’ll be overwhelmed with too much stuff, all of which with a learning curve to get anything productive out of it. EWQL HO Gold is a great start and a great deal (when Hollywood Strings Diamond came out it was $1.7k). Just get that, learn to master it and by the end of that you’ll have a much clearer idea of where you want to go next.

Good luck!

[taldt33]

Wyatt about Symphobia ?NI is doing a half price sale, is it worth it?

[wagtunes]

Last post in this thread from me - I think you’re trying to run before you can walk, and you’ll be overwhelmed with too much stuff, all of which with a learning curve to get anything productive out of it. EWQL HO Gold is a great start and a great deal (when Hollywood Strings Diamond came out it was $1.7k). Just get that, learn to master it and by the end of that you’ll have a much clearer idea of where you want to go next.

Good luck!

There is another side of the coin here and I am speaking from personal experience. When you "settle" for inferior libraries to start with, eventually you reach that point where you say "I need something better. This isn't doing for me what I need it to do." Then you look back at the money you spent on the inferior stuff and wish you could take it all back and start over. If I could do this all over again, I would have NEVER purchased EWQL stuff and gone directly to Vienna. I would have ended up saving money in the long run.

So I greatly regret ever getting EWQL stuff. Everything that they sell, there is something out there that is better. Except for maybe the choir. I've yet to see anything as good. But that's it.

[noiseboyuk]

Damn I said it would be my last post...

EWQL HO absolutely is not an inferior library. I use many others, but strings and brass are competitive with the rest of them. Indeed, I still use some of EWQL SO to this day - not that much or that often, but it's a purchase I still get value from. My main issue is not the sound, but the patch organisation is pretty clumsy, but that's something liveable with when the sound and articulations are good, and they are.

Garritan or Kirk Hunter this is not.

But to the OP the main reason for posting again (which absolutely really IS my last post here, honestly, truly) is to emphasise - don't get orchestral advice from KVR. It is completely out of step with what the opinion of those who use this stuff routinely. Once again, sign up either to VI Control or The Sound Board. Stay here for Synths, drums, EDM, etc. Overall the advice in this thread has been very very poor indeed - you're not getting the representative wisdom of those who use this stuff day in day out as their bread and butter, but those who bolt it onto their main fun.

This time, properly over and out. Honest.

[wagtunes]

Damn I said it would be my last post...

EWQL HO absolutely is not an inferior library. I use many others, but strings and brass are competitive with the rest of them. Indeed, I still use some of EWQL SO to this day - not that much or that often, but it's a purchase I still get value from. My main issue is not the sound, but the patch organisation is pretty clumsy, but that's something liveable with when the sound and articulations are good, and they are.

Garritan or Kirk Hunter this is not.

But to the OP the main reason for posting again (which absolutely really IS my last post here, honestly, truly) is to emphasise - don't get orchestral advice from KVR. It is completely out of step with what the opinion of those who use this stuff routinely. Once again, sign up either to VI Control or The Sound Board. Stay here for Synths, drums, EDM, etc. Overall the advice in this thread has been very very poor indeed - you're not getting the representative wisdom of those who use this stuff day in day out as their bread and butter, but those who bolt it onto their main fun.

This time, properly over and out. Honest.

You're making a lot of assumptions and generalizations here. I was doing orchestration long before I ever did this synth and pony show. And again, I was speaking for myself personally. If "I" could do it all over again I would have never bought EWQL stuff and would have went straight for Vienna. Play is an absolute PITA to work with. I hate it with a passion. Had I known how bad it was BEFORE getting this stuff, I would have NEVER purchased it.

Again, this is my personal feeling. Trust me. The OP will get EWQL and it won't be the last thing he gets. He WILL outgrow it OR get sick of it if for no other reason than frustration using Play.

But, whatever. It's not my dime. It's his. He can do what he likes. But if I could go back in time, I'd own MAYBE 2 EWQL products and that's it.

Unfortunately, I can't go back in time.

[Phazma]

Ok after some reflecting I am 80% sure that tomorrow I will pull the trigger and get the EWQL HO Gold while it is on sale. Probably I will have to expand later on (or even sooner) and search replacements for some sounds, but I think for 219€ I can't go totally wrong by getting it (and if I do it's at least not 1000€ thrown away). From what I understood sound-wise it should be pretty good for that price and features most common articulations, which already is a nice step up from NI Factory and I guess will finally enable me to start trying to do what I want.

The only thing that still makes me unsure (those 20%) is the PLAY engine that everyone seems to hate. What is actually so frustrating about it? Will it be very complicated to find libraries, load multiple instances, program MIDI, implement mid-score articulation changes and so on? I hope that it is not so clumsy and complicated that I don't understand anything and lose too much time and patience and just buy something else or postpone my plan.

Anyway thank you all for the advice, it has been numerous and surely may help also other people who search similar advice on KVR. And for the future when I want to get new libraries (or maybe ask for some technical help in MIDI-scoring) I will make an account on VI-Control and ask there.

[wagtunes]

Ok after some reflecting I am 80% sure that tomorrow I will pull the trigger and get the EWQL HO Gold while it is on sale. Probably I will have to expand later on (or even sooner) and search replacements for some sounds, but I think for 219€ I can't go totally wrong by getting it (and if I do it's at least not 1000€ thrown away). From what I understood sound-wise it should be pretty good for that price and features most common articulations, which already is a nice step up from NI Factory and I guess will finally enable me to start trying to do what I want.

The only thing that still makes me unsure (those 20%) is the PLAY engine that everyone seems to hate. What is actually so frustrating about it? Will it be very complicated to find libraries, load multiple instances, program MIDI, implement mid-score articulation changes and so on? I hope that it is not so clumsy and complicated that I don't understand anything and lose too much time and patience and just buy something else or postpone my plan.

Anyway thank you all for the advice, it has been numerous and surely may help also other people who search similar advice on KVR. And for the future when I want to get new libraries (or maybe ask for some technical help in MIDI-scoring) I will make an account on VI-Control and ask there.

Here is the answer to your question. You're not going to like it.

I've been using Play since 2013. The main problems with it at the articulations (the keyswitch controlled sounds) are not well documented and not intuitive as far as accessing. Programming this thing is laborious to say the least. It has made me take the lazy way out more times than I'd like to admit and that's just self defeating.

The documentation for EWQL stuff in general is piss poor. I tried reading it and gave up.

Additionally, even the new Play engine has lots of problems. You'll load a sound and then suddenly, for no reason, you get no sound from that channel. You find that the sound has essentially unloaded and you have to load it again.

Also, and I have a very powerful PC having just upgraded it, the sounds upon first load don't all play smoothly. This is because they can't fit everything into memory at once. So say you're playing low strings and gradually move up the keyboard. The higher strings will sputter and spit and simply not play smoothly. Eventually this gets sorted out and when rendering there is no problem at all, unless of course a sound decides to unload just before you render. You'll find that track is missing from your wav file.

Even after 5 years of using this crappy player (nothing else I own is this bad) I still can't stand it. And no, 5 isn't much better than 4, though it is a slight improvement as far as load times for the patches themselves. They do seem to load a little faster and the interface is larger and improved, slightly.

But make no mistake about it. If you try to do anything complicated with EWQL Play, you're going to hate it. Don't get me wrong. The sounds are fine. Maybe not even a huge difference between it and Vienna, though Vienna still sounds better. But the user experience makes this my least favorite piece of musical software to use.

I did use is extensively on my "Once Upon A Time" Broadway like soundtrack and was pleased with the sound I got. No complaints there. But using this software is painful and frustrating. Especially when sounds unload for no reason at all.

Here is that Soundtrack if you want to take a listen. it's not as complex as I would have liked to have made it because I simply lose patience with the Play engine. Yes, it's THAT infuriating.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... pon-a-time

[Armagibbon]

I hear that. See I didnt have a prob with play til I got in the beta way back when they still let us on the bug tracker. Now I got alot of real jankyass plugs I deal with every day but play is just f*ckin sad as all hell cus I seen what they do on the ground floor and I know they aint ever gonna fix it. The peeps workin on play? They use juce and got no clue how to write a decent plug with it. F*ckin miracle the thing even runs smh

Def pick up the strings and brass cus they got a nice sound for cheap imo but save yourself the heartache and get nothin else that runs on play. Aint worth it.

[jancivil]

to emphasise - don't get orchestral advice from KVR.

Don't get advice from a broad collective. Right. Who does that, how is that done? It's meaningless. Sorry to be blunt and honest. In case that has to be explained, the OP is getting advice from individuals at KVR who may know what they're doing, and here drawing from experience all but one poster appears to have to draw from! And since the entire collection of people everywhere from people that have zero experience with music who have got the notion to be an EDM star in a hurry to masters of their craft is to be dismissed, WHY are you, as an apparent member here at the useless for anything but EDM KVR even POSTING to the query, 'best complete bundle for orchestral composing'?

[wagtunes]

to emphasise - don't get orchestral advice from KVR.

Don't get advice from a broad collective. Right. Who does that, how is that done? It's meaningless. Sorry to be blunt and honest. In case that has to be explained, the OP is getting advice from individuals at KVR who may know what they're going. And since the entire collection of people everywhere from people that have zero experience with music who have got the notion to be an EDM star in a hurry to masters of their craft is to be dismissed, WHY ARE YOU as an apparent member here POSTING to the query, 'best complete bundle for orchestral composing'?

The irony is not lost on me, even though I do have those deer in the headlight moments.

[jancivil]

Sure, I would say the majority of days are after for me.
The smarter people (not me, evidently) are not saying so much here I guess.

[jancivil]

the PLAY engine that everyone seems to hate. What is actually so frustrating about it? Will it be very complicated to find libraries,

Not for me, but I know where everything is, period.

load multiple instances,

It's awkward. It's not so difficult in and of itself but the more you have to do the more irritating it is. I can't walk you through anything as I don't have it installed here, and never will.

program MIDI, implement mid-score articulation changes and so on?

Dealing with articulations, well, did I not depict something which is superb and built for it?
People get by with it, I can't imagine being charged with a job where time is of the essence and relying on it. You have what they give you out the box, if my recollection is correct and chances aren't bad it is, at least this far.

Their whole business model is whack. I don't know what they're thinking with all the articulations, all this up bow and down bow (which is very picky stuff and takes up TONS of drive space) and all this stuff but the design for use of it a total KLUDGE.

At one time I did my due diligence shortly after the Hollywood Strings came out. I was def. in the market.
So, I looked at the manual. I looked at it yesterday. UNBELIEVABLE how much WORK it is. To grasp the articulations, well it's just not coherent really.

I'm not dissing the sounds. My whole experience buying their sample libs was, 2003 SO Silver for 100 bucks out the door at Guitar Center. It's horses for courses and I used the bassi as recently as 2014. I had to do a lot of massaging in the audio editor, but the sound was apt. Then, RA, bought it in 2009. Most of it lovely, ALL of it very shallow. Of course they did Silk which I never did buy. I can replace most of RA with Kontakt Factory Library "World". pheh.

[jancivil]

the price I saw for Hollywood Strings Gold was $199.50. That's a LOW price for how thorough it is sampled. I am in the market for strings but I'm doing something else which is a glimpse into the future; this company showed me how far behind the times they are and they're not catching up.

[jancivil]

Overall the advice in this thread has been very very poor indeed - you're not getting the representative wisdom of those who use this stuff day in day out as their bread and butter, but those who bolt it onto their main fun.

You know this how? "Overall". It's sure easier to dismiss and insult broadside like that than to address actual points.
I guess VSL isn't giving you freebies to shill their stuff on Youtube, what.

[Armagibbon]

Overall the advice in this thread has been very very poor indeed - you're not getting the representative wisdom of those who use this stuff day in day out as their bread and butter, but those who bolt it onto their main fun.

You know this how? "Overall". It's sure easier to dismiss and insult broadside like that than to address actual points.
I guess VSL isn't giving you freebies to shill their stuff on Youtube, what.

Nah he just dont agree with it thats all hahahahaha
Dont get him fired up on politics... for him if it aint his camp its all bs but hes one of those sly types who likes to say he accepts other opinions then f*ckin tells you off for thinkin different. Got nice vids about some samples on youtube aint no joke bout that... but he aint honest and cant talk to peeps w/o throwin shade. Best to let him be imo.