Working in two places - need a second PC with MIDI

[pljones]

OK... I'm going to get myself a dedicated space for music making, separate from my day to day PC usage.

I use samples quite heavily when working: I've 32GB RAM and use almost all of it. I'd definitely need that in my music PC. Plan A was to keep my existing machine... however...

I've currently got an AMD FX-8359 running at 4GHz (4 core, 8 threads). From a very quick check, the i7 7700T CPU in Scan's Mini Audio PC easily outperforms my existing CPU on what would be needed for, say, using Kontakt for real time performance.

So, as I'd need to be buying a second machine and, really, only for real time performance and recording -- all editing, mixing, etc would be on the other machine -- I'd like opinions on whether it would be suitable.

My biggest problem with replacing my existing machine would be I've got an ageing Echo AudioFire4 sound card. I need MIDI through with a couple of audio outs and not much more. So I'd probably be looking at a USB2 / USB3 replacement. Whenever I've gone looking, I seem to draw a blank on decent options here. (Although the M-Audio M-Track 2x2M or QUAD look like candidates.)

- Would the performance of Scan's Mini Audio PC (given 32Gb RAM) be as good if not better than my existing AMD PC?
- What are good MIDI / audio USB interfaces?

[Kaine]

I don't put a lot of stock in that CPU comparison site normally. You look through the metrics they use other than raw performance and some of them really don't matter all that much.

Still, in this instance they have the gist of it right, as the 7700T is marginally ahead.

FX 8350 = https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cp ... re&id=1780
7700T = https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cp ... Hz&id=2951

Only problem is, that board is now end of life and I've just asked my purchaser to de-list the chip because of it.

I've been offered the replacement generation board for that spec, so when it lands here I'll test it and ensure it's suitable. Good news is the 8700T which is the direct replacement for the 7700T previously listed has around 25% gains, so should be an attractive option when it arrives.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cp ... Hz&id=3213

Hopefully, you can hold off a few weeks as the current system is still doing well by the sounds of it?

Soundcard wise my value preference tends to be the Zoom UAC 2, but you look to be aiming a little lower than that. The M-audio I've done loopback testing and it seems to perform in the same ballpark as the Audient/Focusrite models from what I recall on the driver side, so it'd do the job although I can't comment on the converters etc...

Looking through interface list, i've just realised I've still not brokenout a Mackie Onyx, think I know what i'm doing for the rest of the day...

[pljones]

Hm, I'm sure the last time I looked at a UAC2 it didn't have MIDI! But that's pretty much what I was aiming at.

As ever, when I'm trying to fit in around things that are happening in the home, delays have come up even before I start. So waiting is definitely viable

Thanks, useful feedback as always.

[pljones]

Slowly, slowly... The world turns and so have the tables. Now the real-time performance and recording is happening on the existing PC and the new one will be for editing, mixing, etc.

Currently I'm looking at something like this -- (if the link stays active) --
https://www.scan.co.uk/3xs/shared/3e29d ... 8e5e27c2c4

So... One thing I noticed... The audio configurator for the SQ370 doesn't allow much choice of case ... Can Scan do the Elite 130 in place of the Node 304? I'm after having an internal BR/RW drive (probably the LG BH16NS55 (LN89654)).

Next, I've gone for the i5 8600 - because I'm not sure how much help the hyperthreading would be for the extra £80-ish.

And yes, I have only got the one SSD -- I've some Seagate drives I plan to repartition and re-purpose for additional storage. The 3 x 3.5" bays in the Elite should do nicely for that, too.

[Kaine]

I haven't used it before, but I don't see why it couldn't.

Looking at the Elite spec, it looks like the max allowed cooler size is smaller than the current one. Do you have something specific in mind? Our own site suggests the Noctua L9i, so it seems someone over here has given it at least a bit of thought before now.

Fans might be worth thinking about too. I tend to use the Fractal fans that ship in the node as they are pretty reasonable from a sonic perspective. I think (from what I can recall) the Coolermasters tend to be a bit louder, so you might want to check review tests in regards to the included 120mm & 80mm fans and decide if they need to be switched or not. I guess you've already read up it though, so you're probably a little better placed to make that call than myself currently.

I've got 8400 & 8600K on the current dawbench charts, at tight buffers it's down to maybe 10% and as you raise the buffer it gets closer to 50%. The 8400's got a lot of value in it to be fair if it ticks the boxes for you.

Latest charts are half way down this piece: http://www.scanproaudio.info/2018/07/10 ... -move-you/

[pljones]

The main issue is needing the external drive bay for the rewriter. It looks like either the Elite or the Silverstone SG11B to keep to the form factor I'm after (really the SQ370 is only missing the drive bay ).

I see the Node case takes a tower CPU cooler, up to 165 mm tall and the provided cooler is 161 mm. So either of my choices would also need the alternate cooler (65mm in the Elite, 82 mm in the Silverstone) - the Noctua looks a good choice.

And yes, I'd be looking to replace the stock fans, too, on either alternative case - nothing I've found says they're particularly quiet. (be quiet! BL060 and BL064 look okay.)

I have pretty much convinced myself on the CPU based on expected work load now.

[Kaine]

Good choice on the fans, all sounds good.

[Kaine]

*Double post*

[pljones]

--- back to search mode ... hopefully not long .... ---

[pljones]

Some delay caused by realising the cases were wider than my shelving, so we're getting some wider shelving!

Also, I'll probably want to be using two nice fast USB3 to external SATA 5.25" bay converters ... (or preferably a single two-up housing as they'll never both be in use at once). One for a new BR writer, one for an existing SATA swappable drive bay.

Given I can get that, then the base spec would probably "just work".

... ... ...

However! Now my wife's finally understood what I've been saying all along about my existing PC being better for my "general work" and it would be better to build the new one for real-time live jams (which is a much tighter spec!).

So back to the drawing board...

[Kaine]

Also, I'll probably want to be using two nice fast USB3 to external SATA 5.25" bay converters ... (or preferably a single two-up housing as they'll never both be in use at once). One for a new BR writer, one for an existing SATA swappable drive bay.

You'd have thought that the would be a twin bay version out there somewhere. I can see a single bay optical drive mount (Icybox) and many, many 1/2/4 drive bays specifically for HDD's but I don't recall seeing something that combines the two options.

[pljones]

Given I'll now be moving my old workhorse PC back to my work room, I'll be needing a new "live audio" PC for my live room - rather than the other way around... Again...

So I'm now after something like that's essentially a smaller version of the SQ370, and I'm assuming you could do this as a "pre-build" rather than just supply of parts as listed here:
- Small form factor case (e.g. Silverstone ML06B or the Node 202... I'd prefer smaller, still with internal PSU - but I'd like the option of vertical orientation; can't see something as small as the ML06 that says it does vertical)
- be quiet 80mm Silent Wings x 2 (subject to stock levels)
- ASRock Z370M-ITX/ac (or available equivalent)
- Intel Core i5 8600 (also out of stock)
- Noctua Low Profile NH-L9i
- Corsair 32GB DDR4
- be quiet! BN227 SFX -- is there an ITX equivalent of the "silent" Straight Power range? How does the L Power range (e.g. BN214) compare? I assume the be quiet! PSUs are generally good...
- Samsung 860 EVO 250GB 2.5” SATA - OS, apps, user data
- Samsung 970 EVO 500GB M.2 PCIe NVMe - samples
- LiteOn Ultra Slim 8x DVDRW (may as well have it - not everything will be media-free quite yet and saves an external drive)
- Zoom UAC-2
- Win 10 Pro OEM Pre-installed (can't add to a basket...)
- Standard pre-build warranty (can't add to a basket...)

I think that would all fit together... (assuming the ML06B as a start).

(Now, I'm also expecting when I try to get my wife to agree this one, she'll want to know why it's costing more or less the same as my proposed SQ370-based build -- despite my explaining that's the spec I need and I was going to have to then port half the hardware from my other PC into the new build... This way only saves me that hassle... And either way, I have the software to worry about...)

[Kaine]

So I'm now after something like that's essentially a smaller version of the SQ370, and I'm assuming you could do this as a "pre-build" rather than just supply of parts as listed here:

Sure, I'd have to put you in touch with someone off the sales desk and they would have to generate you a full build and warranty quote, but it's certainly possible.

- Small form factor case (e.g. Silverstone ML06B or the Node 202... I'd prefer smaller, still with internal PSU - but I'd like the option of vertical orientation; can't see something as small as the ML06 that says it does vertical)

I haven't a lot to add to that as I've got limited experience in playing with cases in that form factor. Normally I avoid working with cases with riser based PCIe slots as it's nice to keep expansion options open, so we're a little into untested territory here as far as audio builds go. The only other option that springs to mind in that form factor is the Raven RVZ02B, although I suspect if you've been through that section, you'll already have looked at that too.

- be quiet 80mm Silent Wings x 2 (subject to stock levels)

1 currently, although it's a 2 day reorder from the factory, so wouldn't hold anything up. Should be a reorder on these this week regardless.

- ASRock Z370M-ITX/ac (or available equivalent)

No stock in the channel this week although we've got one on backorder for another system already, as well as a few extra units. So, they might be here imminently, or we might have to locate another. I recall the gigabyte model Z370N WIFI handled alright in an earlier test, and the MSI 370i I think held it's own. Would probably want to retest myself during the build either way to be sure.

- Intel Core i5 8600 (also out of stock)

I can see 46.
(guess it landed this morning)

- be quiet! BN227 SFX -- is there an ITX equivalent of the "silent" Straight Power range? How does the L Power range (e.g. BN214) compare? I assume the be quiet! PSUs are generally good...

No, there are few firms where that is true (take a bow Seasonic...) I'm afraid.

Most firms tend to farm out production of different models to different ODM's for manufacture, so it's rare to able to trust everything that comes from the same brand. The older Bequiets! before the L10 dark powers were a mixed bag and rarely better than average. Of the two you listed the cheaper model is Bronze rated, an older design and one where I can't source any reviews or teardowns.

The newer model is Gold rated, so higher efficiency and I'd suspect better parts all round. They've been more forthcoming with getting them reviewed which would imply that it's a model from after they changed the design team.

Tom's hardware: https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/be-quiet ... 34139.html seem to peg it as above average, although it isn't perfect but then I tend to find that smaller SFX PSU's rarely are. There always seems to be a few trade offs when dealing with smaller units, but they seem to have hit a happy middleground based around keeping it quiet, which after all is the end game here.

- Win 10 Pro OEM Pre-installed (can't add to a basket...)
- Standard pre-build warranty (can't add to a basket...)

Aye, those are why it would need to go via the sales desk.

Given I'll now be moving my old workhorse PC back to my work room, I'll be needing a new "live audio" PC for my live room - rather than the other way around... Again...

Now, the other option that might have been interesting here would be something fully passive.

Shape wise https://www.scan.co.uk/3xs/configurator ... duction-pc might have been attactive, but it's still fairly large at 235 x 487 x 284 (WxHxD mm)

They do however do a miniITX edition: 188.9 x 397 x 235.1 (WxHxD mm) although once again I'm not sure how that sits with you dimension wise: https://www.scan.co.uk/products/silvers ... -(sfx-psu) I've not attempted a passive build in this yet, but I could at least look into it if there was any interest.


Just as a wildcard entry I had a ultra-thin ITX spec up until about a month ago when the parts went EOL after the generation was killed off, which is a shame as it might have been perfect for this.

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/akasa-e ... d-ssd-with

Now, I've been trying to replace this in the specs for a few months and ASUS have told me there is a sample unit of the new board on its way. So... now the fun part, CPU's need to be 35w at a maximum to run passively. There isn't currently any stock with the distro, although that was the same on the last generation and we were able to set up a source. I'd need to test the board solution, which would involve me hitting up Intel for a sample chip in the meantime. I think I'm going to do so anyway, but this might possibly prove an interesting fit for you if you thought there were any legs in the idea.

[pljones]

Yeah, I thought about fully passive... I don't want to limit the CPU too much, though - it's got to deliver performance in a real-time live environment - no suddenly deciding to sleep if the going gets too hot...

I can imagine the case actually being the one point I have to come back on a few times before it's all settled - different sizes mean different things are possible, which make us think of different work-arounds (hence the flip back to the original locations...).

PSU, I think I'll go with the BN214 then .

Time-wise... look at probably deciding things at this end this coming weekend, I hope!

[pljones]

OK, it's looking like it'll be the Fractal Design Node 202 case. Still not decided on the PSU - the be quiet! is 3SX approved but for gaming noise isn't so important, I guess. There's a Silverstone SFX that actually has a dB statistic, though...