[SOLVED] MDrummer and Bitwig : MIDI commands broken ?

[mevla]

Hello,

I have watched the video 'MIDI Command Method' two times and do not get the use of the two tracks. I put MD on an instrument track. That track accepts by defautl all MIDI input. I have an Axiom 25 connected to the track. When I press a key, the yellow dot beside MD flashes to show that data is received and transmitted to the plugin by Bitwig.

On MD I choose a drumkit and a beat and press play to verify that the beat is playing. It plays. I put a C-1 note in the clip on that track. It will loop. I press play in Bitwig, the loop starts, and I expect MD to read the command to play the beat but nothing happens.

So I put a few notes on C-1, C0, C1 and C2 and press play in Bitwig. Nothing happens.

MDBitwigNotes.jpg

While the clip with the notes is still playing I press 'Switch to Drum Pad Mode' and now the tom and kick are heard on C1 and C2. Nothing on the other two notes.

The Axiom 25 global channel is 01. The pads are 10. In 'Drum Pad Mode' the drums can be played on either the pads or the keyboard.

It's a bit confusing. The MIDI data gets to MD. The recorded track has notes. But none are considered commands, C-1 will not tell MD to play the beat.

And the there's this business of having two tracks as shown in the video with Ableton. I do not know if this is an artifact of Ableton these two tracks or what. For me so far it's clear that the MIDI notes are received by Bitwig and sent to MD, as the little yellow squares shows each time a note, a pad, or a recorded note in the clip plays.

MDBitwigMIDIDot.jpg

Can you bring some light on this ?

Cheers.

UPDATE

I also even specified directly MIDI channel 1for the reception of Axiom MIDI notes in the hope that playing a C-1 on the Axion would trigger the playing of a beat. Nope.

MDMIDI1.jpg

[MeldaProduction]

Please try to contact Bitwig, they should be able to help you with that. I tried to just add an instrument track with MDrummer to Bitwig and everything seems working fine here. I'm no expert in Bitwig unfortunately.

[goldglob]

Re two tracks in the video: I guess Ableton needs a separate MIDI and audio track. Reaper just needs one track...MIDI input> VSTi> audio output. Bitwig?
Be clear that Drum Pad Mode is for playing MD in the usual drum VSTi way..nothing to do with MIDI command method.
In MD> main settings top right> MIDI SETTINGS> make sure MIDI input mode is set to 'full'. Hit the info button (?) to read about the different settings.
See Rhythm Editor> the channels under GLOBALS...MD can have 1-9 separate Rhythms. In 'full' mode MIDI input channels 1-9 trigger Rhythms 1-9.
I guess your Rhythm is on channel 1....make sure your MIDI commands are on MIDI channel 1.

You say:
"On MD I choose a drumkit and a beat and press play to verify that the beat is playing. It plays. I put a C-1 note in the clip on that track. It will loop." What do you mean by "it will loop"?

And "I press play in Bitwigm the loop starts, and I expect MD to read the command to play the beat but nothing happens."
Do you mean that when you press PLAY in Bitwig the MIDI command at C-1 works (the drums play) but the next command at C0 doesn't do anything?

Are you doing all this with a factory drumset and factory Rhythm?

[mevla]

MIDI Input Mode is set to 'Full'. This is automatically set when going for instance from 'Drum Pad Mode' (where it is automatically set to 'Notes Only') to normal mode.

You say: "On MD I choose a drumkit and a beat and press play to verify that the beat is playing. It plays. I put a C-1 note in the clip on that track. It will loop." What do you mean by "it will loop"?

That was indeed unclear. The C-1 note in the clip will loop, like a regular MIDI note in a clip. If a synth is put on the track instead of MD, the synth will play C-1 again and again.

Do you mean that when you press PLAY in Bitwig the MIDI command at C-1 works (the drums play) but the next command at C0 doesn't do anything?

When PLAY is pressed in Bitwig using the example screen shot above of four C notes, nothing happens. With the clip still playing I switch to 'Drum Pad Mode' and then Bass Drum 1 is heard on C1 and Tom 1 on C2. C-1 and C0 remains silent, which if I understood correctly is expected behaviour since C-1 and C0 are used for commands instead.

It is clear that MD receives the MIDI notes. The sounds are excellent. Top notch sampling. Rich and warm.

I guess it boils down to: Since it receives MIDI notes in 'Drum Pad Mode', why doesn't it receive the MIDI notes when out of 'Drum Pad Mode' ? I do not think at all that Bitwig is involved in this. It does its job to send the notes to the plugin as far as can be seen.

Are you doing all this with a factory drumset and factory Rhythm?

Yes. Acoustic Studio 2009 -> Brush and Swipe 1 -> Acoustic Funk -> Basic 02

[mevla]

Please try to contact Bitwig, they should be able to help you with that. I tried to just add an instrument track with MDrummer to Bitwig and everything seems working fine here. I'm no expert in Bitwig unfortunately.

Hi !

I do not think Bitwig would be involved in that. MD clearly receives the MIDI data as demonstrated in the thread.

I got Btiwig approx. 2.5 years ago. Since then I made a lot of improvs and jams and pieces, as I learn mixing and all that. "Escape of the Hopping Rhinos" in the signature below is the 362nd of such improv/pieces, so that's about one improv per 2.5 day, all using various synths and loops and plugins and acoustic guitars. I can't say I know Bitwig like a dedicated expert but I know my way around. The behaviour of MD is seemingly different, eg. I still suspect there's more than just adding MD to an instrument track, there's some other detail.

Cheers.

[goldglob]

Are you absolutely sure that your MIDI commands are set to channel 1?
Did you enter them with a mouse with snapping to grid on?

[mevla]

Yes, snap to grid is always enabled. I don't think I ever loosely put notes.

I'm not sure about which MIDI channel Bitwig uses to send programmed clip notes to a plugin. The default of a track is 'All Ins' and obviously works with all synths and devices. USB-connect a MIDI keyboard, instantly recognized, grab a softsynth put it on a track and there it goes. So far I've never ever had to think about MIDI channels.

I've asked in the Bitwig section about clip notes and MIDI channels.

The following might be optional - it's a test I tried.

There's a utility in Bitwig. 'MIDI CC' that enables to set a MIDI channel. When set to one and 'Drum Pad Mode' selected with the four C notes above, MD will play the Bass Drum and the Tom as usual. While it's playing, the MIDI channel is then switched to 10 as shown below. The instruments are still playing.

However, when MD 'MIDI Settings' is switched to 'MIDI input mode' -> 'Notes on channel 10 only' then the instruments are not playing anymore. Which is a bit strange since in this case Bitwig would have a global MIDI chan 10 in effect for that track. NOt sure though if this set MIDI channel is for CC only or what. The documentation says nothing specific about that.

The yellow dot shows the transmission of one C note as usual, in the 4-note clip that is looping.

MDBitwigChan10.jpg

[mevla]

Please try to contact Bitwig, they should be able to help you with that. I tried to just add an instrument track with MDrummer to Bitwig and everything seems working fine here. I'm no expert in Bitwig unfortunately.

Can you be specific about 'everything" ?

Cheers.

[goldglob]

I'm heading out for a gig here in London, back later, would love to see this solved!

[mevla]

Have a good one !

I'd like to see it solved also as I itch to get MD into some improvs and build stuff while learning it. To be able to use MIDI commands is a must.

Cheers.

[mevla]

Was there any update concerning MD in 12.02 ? I still run 12.01.

[mevla]

On participant in the Bitwig KVR forum wrote today:

"I have Mdrummer and it's broken in Bitwig. I have contacted both Melda and Bitwig about this and both devs blame each other for the problem."

Can we see a solution to this ?

MDrummer reacts to MIDI notes in 'Drum Pad Mode' but stops acting on them in normal mode even though the exact same notes are still banging at the door.

[goldglob]

There's something MIDI command related in 12.03.

"MDrummer changes
Please note that we use kernel version numbers, therefore all plugins have the same version number.

12.03 changes

Added Dry as side-chain option to TurboReverb.
Improved support for automation and Cubase's QC learn.
Fix: Having a cycle with MIDI commands could make MDrummer stop playing even if there was a command after the cycle.
Fix: Plugins might have restored bigger size after loading a project, than needed, if some GUI items have been collapsed.
Fix: Time graph settings popup made Logic stuck and unable to quit.
Fix: Ctrl + Random should have slightly modified parameters, but instead performed full randomization.
Fix: Text edit window in Cubase in OSX could make the plugins control an incorrect parameter on next touch.

12.02 changes

Added 4 snapping defaults to Minimum level and Maximum level note parameters, plus keyboard shortcuts N and M.
Improved Phatik initialization performance.
Added Resampling option to MPhatik.
Added Reset feature to AutoDynamicEq, which resets the source & target analyses.
Added "Interpolate between 1 and 0" option to all signal generators.
Fix: Saving a component in the Drumset designer would make that new component unavailable until MDrummer was restarted.
Fix: Plugins could crash in some old OSX versions (10.10 and older most likely) and some specific hosts (Logic, Reason) when displaying popups."

[mevla]

I tried 12.03 : same behaviour. MD reacts on MIDI notes played from a clip when in 'Drum Pad Mode' as described before with the 4 C notes from C-1 to C2, but stops reacting totally to the same notes banging at its door when in normal command mode.

I use Bitwig for creation. This is where things happens. And I use Harrison Mixbus32C for mixing and mastering.

I tried MDrummer in Mixbus32C: it works as expected. I hit a C-1 on the Axiom 25 MIDI keyboard and MD starts playing.

Unfortunately that's not much in practical terms because Mixbus32C is a mixing DAW. It has none of the creative possibilities of Bitwig. It's cumbersome to say the least to create in Mixbus32C. And I can't run both Bitwig and Mixbus32C synced together to have MD working in Mixbus32C - I'd need a top notch i7 CPU with 64 GB RAM which I don't.

Two wonderings:

1) I wonder if Vojtech and the Bitwig guys have ever talked on that subject and what was the actual technical disagreement.

2) What did Vojtech meant in this thread here when he replied that he tried it in Bitwig and "everything seems working fine here" - what is everything exactly ? What's the exact use case step by step ?

Cheers.

[goldglob]

Check this link, looks like Bitwig has problems with VST3 and something else about sandboxing.
https://www.meldaproduction.com/about/s ... quirements
What a frustrating mystery, wish someone who actually uses MD in Bitwig could chip in.