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zynaptiq
KVRist
 
290 posts since 13 Jan, 2012, from In the studio, in front of computer.

Postby zynaptiq; Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:46 pm Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensify

cfanyc wrote:Well of course raising the low volume signal while maintaining the high volume
is (upward) compression. Which by the way one can achieve with
regular compressors/levelers/limiters where first you bring the loud parts down
and then lift everything up by the same amount until the new peaks/RMS
matches the original peak or RMS levels.


...except that an upward compressor again uses thresholds, ratios, attack and release constants. Which INTENSITY does not.
Zynaptiq - Audio Software Based On Artificial Intelligence Technology, makers of PITCHMAP: Real-Time Polyphonic Pitch Correction And Mapping.
zynaptiq
KVRist
 
290 posts since 13 Jan, 2012, from In the studio, in front of computer.

Postby zynaptiq; Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:02 pm Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensify

RobinWood wrote:I downloaded the trailer and ran the first example through a loudness meter. The original parts were about -11.6LUFS while the processed parts were about -8.9LUFS. Thats a boost of 2.7 and therefore not a real and fair comparison :wink: That's the manipulation he's talking about - the typical "louder feels better" scheme unfortunately seen in many products videos.


Actually, you are right and I stand corrected – there must have been a change in settings between measurements and the video capture :dog: Apologies! The number is pretty exactly two db LUFS though if you integrate over the duration of the piece, which would be the correct way to do it as that way you're comparing apples to apples.

That said, if you adjust accordingly, the improvement to the sound is still *drastic* no less, AND getting this amount of loudness increase while maintaining the same peak levels as well as this level of sound quality is pretty good in my book.
Zynaptiq - Audio Software Based On Artificial Intelligence Technology, makers of PITCHMAP: Real-Time Polyphonic Pitch Correction And Mapping.
sircuit
KVRist
 
471 posts since 15 Jul, 2016

Postby sircuit; Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:11 pm Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensify

zynaptiq wrote:
sircuit wrote:when feeding some disco classics or more complex dance music, it brings out harshness of the cymbals, unwanted background elements (like smooth rides)


[...]If the DETAILS of your audio are things you don't want to hear...then why boost them in the first place? [...]


Ummmmm... because is a plug-in designed to be placed on a unmastered song instead of "traditional" mastering chain? I don't boost them intentionally, this is what the plug does. The de-essed part of the cymbals is not a detail I want to bring back and yet it comes, the transients I want them to stay and they're gone. No bias mode would reduce harshness without reducing things that I actually want in the mix. Generally, the sounds that are close to the noise floor are there because I want them to be there - I wouldn't call them "details", quite the contrary.
It can go so far as ruining the groove of a shaker that sits at -30 dB back in the mix and have LFO ducking on it. Instead of only hearing small ducking bursts as I intended, it brings out also the parts that I don't want to be clearly heard (which I only want them to sit at the background). At the moment for the mastering chain this is a no-go.

Also the video demo completely misses any complex (soundwise) dance music, there are just sparse/minimalistic songs.

I'll do more tests though (on summing busses and single instruments). As soon as I figure out all the weaknesses I'll also have the list of strengths. I'd like to get it at intro price as there's no way I'll ever spend that RRP on a plug-in. Especially nowdays when the loudness wars are pretty much over on the streaming platforms.


zynaptiq wrote:B) making stuff a lot louder while keeping levels as well as LUFS similar IS a big deal

zynaptiq wrote:getting this amount of loudness increase while maintaining the same peak levels as well as this level of sound quality is pretty good in my book.


So what exactly this plugin does, what's the aim?

increase "subjectively perceived loudness by human ear" while maintaining the same LUFS & peak values (so no intended change in measurements only changes in how we hear)
-- or--
increase of measured LUFS loudness (as well as loudness perceived by ear) with minimum to no distortion?
 MacBook Pro Quad-Core _ macOS High Sierra __ ♫ Logic Pro X
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martinjuenke
KVRAF
 
2017 posts since 28 Dec, 2015, from Germany

Postby martinjuenke; Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:37 pm Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensity

AFAIK your first alternative...

Music was my first love...
Flowing atmospheric music
http://www.sonoryth.bandcamp.com/music
User avatar
plexuss
KVRAF
 
2103 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Postby plexuss; Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:49 pm Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensity

To clarify my previous review/post: I think if you are the kind of person that doesn't want to work with individual plugins and fine tune the sound you are after "manually", then Intensify could be a good alternative to get at a sound that has a sense of refinement to it. Whether thats track mixing or mastering. I find Intensity imparts a sound quality to the audio that essentially becomes the DNA of the sound - to my ears, there is much more to do except perhaps an EQ tweek, buss compression glue and final limiting. I can't wrap my head on how to use it in my workflow which goes the other way - I enjoy working with a wide range of individual plugins to build up a chain that gets to the sound I want.

I think as a one-knob tool Intensity is pretty good, but your workflow has to accommodate that one-knob approach. That's my take on it. YMM undoubtedly V. :phones:
jbarish
KVRist
 
250 posts since 27 Apr, 2017

Postby jbarish; Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:38 pm Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensity

I think that's my issue as well. I tend to prefer many small improvements spread over a number of plugs on the master bus over a one plug to rule them all type. There's a finite amount of headroom with which to work and Intensity just wants to gobble up such a large chunk of it, leaving little room for much else. Which could be good for some things but less so for others. Intensity does sound very good but I think it does proudly stamp it's character on a track. I keep trying to make it less intense, which is not the plugin's fault. The name spells it out for you. I'm still on the fence as to how much actual use I'd get out of it in my workflow.
Last edited by jbarish on Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Fleer
KVRAF
 
3767 posts since 22 Aug, 2014, from Boston/Cambridge

Postby Fleer; Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:19 pm Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensity

Perfect name for a perfect plugin.
Intensity really communicates what it does.
Intensity intensifies what needs intensifying.
Amazing tool like its Zynaptiq sisters.
Congrats, Denis, you guys did it again.
bbtr
Banned

Postby bbtr; Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:59 pm Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensity

So the man himself said several times (!) that one of the aims of Intensity is to make things louder, but some guys are still complaining that it's making them louder, so it's not a fair comparison. Guys, did you leave your thinking caps at home, or something?!

And NO, it is not a compressor. It uses artificial intelligence and facial recognition (think Photoshop and video apps) - zynaptiq, can you maybe tell us more about that?* Tried to find the manual on your site - no manual. Why not put a link for those who haven't got the demo yet but like to read?

* (Yes, of course it's complex and proprietary, but still...)
simon.a.billington
KVRian
 
1395 posts since 12 Nov, 2014

Postby simon.a.billington; Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:56 am Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensity

I’m actually quite intrigued by this. I have not yet gotten around to watching the demo yet though.

I feel compelled to add that I’m still cut that PitchMap still won’t run in 96k projects after a couple of years of waiting. :(

I find this both frustrating and disappointing.
mcbpete
KVRian
 
1186 posts since 24 Jun, 2006, from London, England

Postby mcbpete; Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:08 am Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensity

bbtr wrote:So the man himself said several times (!) that one of the aims of Intensity is to make things louder, but some guys are still complaining that it's making them louder, so it's not a fair comparison. Guys, did you leave your thinking caps at home, or something?!
Nononono - The issue was the demo video was meant to show how it made things sound louder without affecting LUFS levels but .... well it did ! And so:

zynaptiq wrote:
RobinWood wrote:I downloaded the trailer and ran the first example through a loudness meter. The original parts were about -11.6LUFS while the processed parts were about -8.9LUFS. Thats a boost of 2.7 and therefore not a real and fair comparison :wink: That's the manipulation he's talking about - the typical "louder feels better" scheme unfortunately seen in many products videos.
Actually, you are right and I stand corrected – there must have been a change in settings between measurements and the video capture :dog: Apologies!
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plexuss
KVRAF
 
2103 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Postby plexuss; Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:23 am Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensity

simon.a.billington wrote:I’m actually quite intrigued by this. I have not yet gotten around to watching the demo yet though.

I feel compelled to add that I’m still cut that PitchMap still won’t run in 96k projects after a couple of years of waiting. :(

I find this both frustrating and disappointing.


+1 for pitchmap @96k. Releasing a plugin without supporting multiple sample rates is a losing proposition despite having taken my money. :phones:
bbtr
Banned

Postby bbtr; Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:49 am Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensity

mcbpete wrote:
bbtr wrote:So the man himself said several times (!) that one of the aims of Intensity is to make things louder, but some guys are still complaining that it's making them louder, so it's not a fair comparison. Guys, did you leave your thinking caps at home, or something?!
Nononono - The issue was the demo video was meant to show how it made things sound louder without affecting LUFS levels but .... well it did ! And so:

zynaptiq wrote:
RobinWood wrote:I downloaded the trailer and ran the first example through a loudness meter. The original parts were about -11.6LUFS while the processed parts were about -8.9LUFS. Thats a boost of 2.7 and therefore not a real and fair comparison :wink: That's the manipulation he's talking about - the typical "louder feels better" scheme unfortunately seen in many products videos.
Actually, you are right and I stand corrected – there must have been a change in settings between measurements and the video capture :dog: Apologies!


a-ha!
bbtr
Banned

Postby bbtr; Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:50 am Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensity

But standing corrected is not enough - another example is necessary.
cfanyc
KVRist
 
193 posts since 8 Dec, 2013

Postby cfanyc; Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:52 am Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensity

bbtr wrote:So the man himself said several times (!) that one of the aims of Intensity is to make things louder, but some guys are still complaining that it's making them louder, so it's not a fair comparison. Guys, did you leave your thinking caps at home, or something?!

And NO, it is not a compressor. It uses artificial intelligence and facial recognition (think Photoshop and video apps) - zynaptiq, can you maybe tell us more about that?* Tried to find the manual on your site - no manual. Why not put a link for those who haven't got the demo yet but like to read?

* (Yes, of course it's complex and proprietary, but still...)


With respect I think you are not conveying what was said or claimed very accurately.

The aim of intensity verbatim fron Zynaptik's site:

"INTENSITY is a new kind of audio processor for mixing, mastering and sound design. Built on techniques typically found in facial recognition algorithms, INTENSITY brings out a sound’s inherent detail, increases its perceived loudness and density, and adds insane amounts of clarity. The unique algorithm carves out important signal features – making sounds sound more like themselves – and is operated with essentially one control. Between the proprietary algorithm and an optional soft-knee saturating limiter in the plugin’s output stage, INTENSITY also excels at attaining maximum loudness and creating a beautifully aggressive tone. "

So detail, density, clarity, and perceived loudness, NOT just loudness.
Because it does make things louder though via actual gain increases,
the natural question #1 of every inquiring mind is: how much of any improvement
effect is due to gain increase vs the other processing that goes on?

Second, intensity is not a compressor BUT does compress the signal both in the sense
of DR reduction and due to the "saturating limiter".

Thus the natural question #2 of every inquiring mind is: how much of any improvement
effect is due to the compression and saturation limiting effects?
bbtr
Banned

Postby bbtr; Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:08 am Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensity

The plot thickens...........
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