Solo strings - any ideas?

[mediumaevum]

I'm trying my luck with the 8Dio Solo Violin and Solo Viola, trying to programme them.

I've also tried looking at the Best Service Chris Hein string family, but watching the demo videos, they too sound terrible, even when programmed.

The 8dio Solo Violin sounds terrible on its own. The Solo Viola sounds "off", meaning it does not yet have that humanization to it that a real viola has.

Yet Two Steps From Hell amongst others using VST's makes excellent use of solo strings, so my question is:

If they're not using 8Dio or Chris Hein (which are the least terrible solo string vst's I've found) what are they using? And why can't I get that realism to my strings no matter how hard I try?

I've consulted the manual, looked demo videos etc. and using different patches just to achieve the sound of 1 (one) violin or viola. I've programmed curves for the Dynamics and Expression.

Without luck so far. It still sounds computererized, which I don't want, I want virtual samples to sound like a real orchestra.

[wagtunes]

I'm trying my luck with the 8Dio Solo Violin and Solo Viola, trying to programme them.

I've also tried looking at the Best Service Chris Hein string family, but watching the demo videos, they too sound terrible, even when programmed.

The 8dio Solo Violin sounds terrible on its own. The Solo Viola sounds "off", meaning it does not yet have that humanization to it that a real viola has.

Yet Two Steps From Hell amongst others using VST's makes excellent use of solo strings, so my question is:

If they're not using 8Dio or Chris Hein (which are the least terrible solo string vst's I've found) what are they using? And why can't I get that realism to my strings no matter how hard I try?

I've consulted the manual, looked demo videos etc. and using different patches just to achieve the sound of 1 (one) violin or viola. I've programmed curves for the Dynamics and Expression.

Without luck so far. It still sounds computererized, which I don't want, I want virtual samples to sound like a real orchestra.

I have Chris Hein Violin and Cello and I love them both.

What you're looking for is something you're never going to find. I know. I grew up listening to classical music with real orchestras and violins and cellos. You're never going to get a sample to sound like the real thing.

Having said that, saying that Chris Hein sounds terrible, I'm sorry but I don't know what the hell you're hearing. It is far from terrible.

Here's a track I did with Chris Hein. It's a long progressive rock track but there is a violin solo around the 4:10 mark and running until about the 5:00 mark if you want to skip ahead.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... on-masters

I'm pleased with the sound. It's not perfect but I think it's damn good. In fact, it's the best violin out there, IMO.

Obviously, you're more picky than I am so finding something you're going to be happy with, given you hate Chris Hein, is going to be impossible. Not close to impossible. Just flat out impossible.

[enCiphered]

I'm trying my luck with the 8Dio Solo Violin and Solo Viola, trying to programme them.

I've also tried looking at the Best Service Chris Hein string family, but watching the demo videos, they too sound terrible, even when programmed.

The 8dio Solo Violin sounds terrible on its own. The Solo Viola sounds "off", meaning it does not yet have that humanization to it that a real viola has.

Yet Two Steps From Hell amongst others using VST's makes excellent use of solo strings, so my question is:

If they're not using 8Dio or Chris Hein (which are the least terrible solo string vst's I've found) what are they using? And why can't I get that realism to my strings no matter how hard I try?

I've consulted the manual, looked demo videos etc. and using different patches just to achieve the sound of 1 (one) violin or viola. I've programmed curves for the Dynamics and Expression.

Without luck so far. It still sounds computererized, which I don't want, I want virtual samples to sound like a real orchestra.

I suggest to look at VI-Control, its the best forum place for orchestral topics:
https://vi-control.net/community/forums/sample-talk.32/

[mediumaevum]

I'm trying my luck with the 8Dio Solo Violin and Solo Viola, trying to programme them.

I've also tried looking at the Best Service Chris Hein string family, but watching the demo videos, they too sound terrible, even when programmed.

The 8dio Solo Violin sounds terrible on its own. The Solo Viola sounds "off", meaning it does not yet have that humanization to it that a real viola has.

Yet Two Steps From Hell amongst others using VST's makes excellent use of solo strings, so my question is:

If they're not using 8Dio or Chris Hein (which are the least terrible solo string vst's I've found) what are they using? And why can't I get that realism to my strings no matter how hard I try?

I've consulted the manual, looked demo videos etc. and using different patches just to achieve the sound of 1 (one) violin or viola. I've programmed curves for the Dynamics and Expression.

Without luck so far. It still sounds computererized, which I don't want, I want virtual samples to sound like a real orchestra.

I have Chris Hein Violin and Cello and I love them both.

What you're looking for is something you're never going to find. I know. I grew up listening to classical music with real orchestras and violins and cellos. You're never going to get a sample to sound like the real thing.

Having said that, saying that Chris Hein sounds terrible, I'm sorry but I don't know what the hell you're hearing. It is far from terrible.

Here's a track I did with Chris Hein. It's a long progressive rock track but there is a violin solo around the 4:10 mark and running until about the 5:00 mark if you want to skip ahead.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... on-masters

I'm pleased with the sound. It's not perfect but I think it's damn good. In fact, it's the best violin out there, IMO.

Obviously, you're more picky than I am so finding something you're going to be happy with, given you hate Chris Hein, is going to be impossible. Not close to impossible. Just flat out impossible.

I did not say I hate it. It just sounds terrible, when compared to a real violin.
Well, of course "terrible" should be taken with moderation, but it does not have that realistic feel to it, that a... real violin has...

Yes, probably the Chris Hein is the best that's out there.

[jancivil]

I'm going to be frank here, at the state of the art as it stand today, most things can be done by the person with the skills to pull it off if the articulations are available for what you want to pull off and the tools for achieving that.

Go to the Sarasate solo. It's a solo, there's nothing to hide behind, here:
https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Strings_Comple ... dle#!Demos

Jay Bacal. There is a downloadable tutorial (1st, a .fxp file which is only good if you have the library, BUT:) a downloadable MIDI file, right there. The MIDI is not rocket surgery: he has around 12 articulations and the only CC I've found is a tiny bit of CC 11 expression. He doubles the double stops by a 2nd MIDI track.

But let's get down to articulations here - Chris Hein solo vln bundle:

Screen Shot 2018-06-21 at 1.44.45 PM.png

VSL Solo Violin in Solo Strings I - well, it'd have to be shrunk down so far, let's just see a link to a page:
https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Strings_Comple ... le_Content

Then, I don't like the sound in the CH demo. That's subjective of course, but the demos of it working do not persuade me to move away from VSL as better. Significantly so.

Upshot: if you want it to sound like it's real, you have to have the tools and the skills to use the tools.

[jancivil]

but it does not have that realistic feel to it, that a... real violin has....

It wouldn't tend to, not being tactile in your hands with strings and what-not. A feel, in your hands it has to have?
Be real. Even figuratively: to get a realistic virtual performance is a shit-ton of work in itself and a long experience of practice and knowledge gained from the real world is something of a pre-requisite; and then the tool may well be found wanting.

It isn't going to happen playing it from one articulation but only so far, you know. Jay Bacal writes it in the piano roll, the workflow is you have to determine articulations and many of us simply get the pencil tool in Cubendo and make a note-on for a keyswitch in Key Editor. Some people may prefer to hit a note on the extreme left or right on an 88-key controller, just like some people are big pianists and want the controller to be weighted just so. But the workflow for very detailed ambitious virtual performances is not that of Miroslav Phil.


I think the Chis Hein is pretty good but nowhere near VSL. You probably don't want VSL either, really though. But for the money, VSL is four stringed instruments for twice the price of 2 CH, albeit the two are both vlns.

[Vortifex]

..

[mediumaevum]

but it does not have that realistic feel to it, that a... real violin has....

It wouldn't tend to, not being tactile in your hands with strings and what-not. A feel, in your hands it has to have?
Be real. Even figuratively: to get a realistic virtual performance is a shit-ton of work in itself and a long experience of practice and knowledge gained from the real world is something of a pre-requisite; and then the tool may well be found wanting.

No, wrong word, sorry (english is not my native language). I meant emotional, I know they have a product, Emotional Cello (or something like that).

Btw. I think I found what I was looking for:

Virharmonic Bohemian Violin. The only one I know of that has the right sound and sounds more like a real violin than many others.

[jancivil]

Scratch that regarding 'Bohemian', I may be be confusing it with another similar named-thing.

I think your viola solo over there is good until you do all this legato double-stopping (and maybe more than double- albeit I didn't examine it past knowing 'well, that's totally impossible') which is where I hit stop. explained in-thread

As to not understanding or conveying: I mean to say that 'a feel' would seem to be a live real-time phenomena, getting emotional during working is as well and getting the kind of detail of, at least a virtuoso solo vln or what-have-you solo involves a lot of tedium and irritation typically. People may well really get off on it once it's done but it's not playing an instrument like that.

This:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXVDxmsOebI
Is probably just a good legato. If that's what you like, good for you but we're posting at cross-purposes.
Yes, this is bragged on as live with no controls, but it's one articulation.

[Ah_Dziz]

Look at embertone or spitfire. Both have amazing solo strings that are available one at a time or bundled as a quartet.

JJ

[dandezebra]

I really like KH's Spotlight Solo Strings. Older library but it sounds fantastic.

[djanthonyw]

I second Embertone.

[Fleer]

Embertone. Definitely.

[bigcat1969]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Embertone, They have a lovely set of solo strings. Might want to check them out. I got them on a nice sale that some chap name Fleer told me about.

[Virharmonic]

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to share up to date videos of our libraries to this thread, as I'm not sure why the Base versions are being posted, both libraries have received Expansion 1 which treated them to plenty of legato options as seen in the up to date videos (Expansion 1 tripled the original sample count ).

I hope this helps to some and of course do not hesitate to contact us if you need any assistance. The old videos have been disabled now as they are not representative due to their limited functionality compared to the Expanded versions. And it is correct that all these Improv videos are always played without any CC or keyswitchings and in Overview videos we always show clearly when a force key is being used and why


Overview (for more info)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQP8JLZHadc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvvnXvOkAyk

Viola is coming later this year, but no ETA to share just yet as Expansion 2 for the Violin is first to come out this summer.