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Kiiryu
KVRer
 
9 posts since 21 May, 2018
Currently, I use a lot of the functions of FL Studio's Sytrus plugin to make sound effects from scratch. In most cases I can make what I need, but it makes me wonder if there's any software that would work better for it.

I mostly work by using noise, and then modulating/shaping ENV, CUT, and RES, with different filter types. I make each part of the sound, layer them, and then apply effects.

Is there anything that has similar functions but more control/filter types, or just anything in general that would help with making sounds from scratch?
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Unaspected
KVRist
 
428 posts since 4 May, 2012
I think the only 'standard' you need to worry about is the game engine - how the sound will be generated and processed within the game. If all your sound is made of offline, pre-recorded material, then use anything and everything that gets the job done to your taste.
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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
 
26046 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
Unaspected is basically correct. A lot of game engines rely on middleware (like WWise and Fmod), so in many cases the playback and control side of things will be consistent from one game, and one game engine, to another. Game audio is still predominantly sample based, especially in more 'realistic' games although procedural (ie generated-in-realtime) is starting to gain a toehold for certain things, eg in conjunction with dynamic environmental effects like weather, fire-spread etc.

I suspect that, especially in larger companies, ProTools is probably the defacto standard, same as it is in the post-poduction sector, so knowing that is a definite thing to consider for the CV but I doubt there's many places they would actively prevent a sound designer from using the tools of their choice.

From what you describe of your method with Sytrus, the other thing that I'd suggest you could look at is one of the more modular 'audio toolkit' appications, like Reaktor or even MAX/MSP. Steep learning curve, obviously, but it would let you create and tailor specific sound generating tools for specific types of things. Even a slightly more traditional modular synth (like the free VCV) would expand your options.

, or just a modular synth application like VCV.
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resurrection
KVRer
 
18 posts since 18 May, 2018
You could use anything - samples, software, foley, etc. It's up to you. E.g., Gladiator and Arcsyn have great randomizer functions. That is, if you want the synth to throw an idea at you, for you to take it and work from there.

BUT, if you want something specific, you'll have to use your brain.

ALSO, and very important, there is no consensus or standard what is a 'sound effect', and what is just 'some noise'. Skill and taste - if you want to be well paid.
Kiiryu
KVRer
 
9 posts since 21 May, 2018
whyterabbyt wrote:Unaspected is basically correct. A lot of game engines rely on middleware (like WWise and Fmod), so in many cases the playback and control side of things will be consistent from one game, and one game engine, to another. Game audio is still predominantly sample based, especially in more 'realistic' games although procedural (ie generated-in-realtime) is starting to gain a toehold for certain things, eg in conjunction with dynamic environmental effects like weather, fire-spread etc.

I suspect that, especially in larger companies, ProTools is probably the defacto standard, same as it is in the post-poduction sector, so knowing that is a definite thing to consider for the CV but I doubt there's many places they would actively prevent a sound designer from using the tools of their choice.

From what you describe of your method with Sytrus, the other thing that I'd suggest you could look at is one of the more modular 'audio toolkit' appications, like Reaktor or even MAX/MSP. Steep learning curve, obviously, but it would let you create and tailor specific sound generating tools for specific types of things. Even a slightly more traditional modular synth (like the free VCV) would expand your options.

, or just a modular synth application like VCV.


Alright, I'll take a look at VCV.

For the most part, I know how to make sounds; they can be entirely digital, or in the case of lasers/energy blasts for example, pitch shifting things like drum hits yield a very "digital/dry" sound. At the end of the day, any aspect can be combined to get the end-result

However it's very trial and error at times, and unlike looking up how to make something like a kick drum, there isn't really info on something like "how to make a archetypal Japanese sword cut sound". On older hardware they would have had to do it in-engine, but on things like the Snes, PS1 ,etc, they would have been using samples, so it just makes me wonder if there was some kind of goto synth for it, and for what reason.

I guess this is the sort of question I should try scanning some credits for, and straight up just email and ask a few people what they use.
sjm
KVRAF
 
1648 posts since 17 Apr, 2004
You need to experiment.

A lot of sound design is made from mangling recordings. You want a samurai sword? Grab a knife and a knife sharpener and record that sound. Then mangle it, mix in whatever else it needs (opening and closing some scissors? The clicking of a lighter?).

Youtube has some interesting videos about how certain sounds were made. Again, you'll probably notice a lot of layering going on. A dog's bark, a bear's growl and a pitch shifted whale song = dragon. Yes, I'm making this up as I go along, but you get the idea.

A while back I made a bunch of weird sound FX in FL Studio. Some of them sound like broken sliding doors (think Star Trek), or defective robots. These were all made using the standard FL Studio kick, run through various effects, recorded in Edison, dragged back into the playlist and mangled again. Reversing samples and applying delay or a lot of reverb does interesting things, especially if you reverse the result again.

Also, granular synthesis can do epic foreboding sounds very, very well.

Anyway, you have an idea how you expect a sword to sound. That isn't necessarily how it actually sounds. Just think epic space battle. You know that in space there is now sound, and you know that light doesn't make a sound. But you still want it to go "pew pew" when a laser is fired. It's less about delivering the actual sound of something, and more about immersing the gamer in a believable environment. The key here is "suspension of disbelief", just as it is for film.

After all, what does the roar of the 2 headed lesser spotted dragon really sound like? In other words, focus more on the type of sound the game needs, and how you'd expect it to sound as a player. Then think of something that sounds like that, and use that as the basis.


I'm no expert btw, but this is what I've gleaned from having a passing interest in the subject and having made my own sound FX and similar for my music, my own (unfinished) games and videos for work.
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Kiiryu
KVRer
 
9 posts since 21 May, 2018
I appreciate the input but I'm not quite that much of a beginner lol

Here are some sound effects I did for a game, to give somewhat of a benchmark,
https://soundcloud.com/kiiryu/as-sounds

Like I said, I know how to make sounds, and in most cases I can make what I'm looking for just through time, trial and error. Indeed, over time you can build up templates for things like a punch, that you can simply modify in the future when you need more.

My main question is basically "is there a better way" to do the digital, synthesized side of things. Messing with samples can be done via piano roll, pitch modification, filters, etc, so it can be done in anything; but what I do with Sytrus is a big part of my workflow, and I feel like there must be a better vst for that has wave shaping and working with noise/filters, but more options.

So to clarify, I'm not really looking for info on how to use samples, Foley, recording techniques, etc, I'm purely looking for alternatives to what I use for synthesis.
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BertKoor
KVRAF
 
10557 posts since 8 Mar, 2005, from Utrecht, Holland
Kiiryu wrote:I guess this is the sort of question I should try scanning some credits for, and straight up just email and ask a few people what they use.
I would be surprised if you get another answer than: I experiment with whatever I can get my hands on and think is slightly fit for the purpose.
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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
 
26046 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
Kiiryu wrote:So to clarify, I'm not really looking for info on how to use samples, Foley, recording techniques, etc, I'm purely looking for alternatives to what I use for synthesis.


Like I say, modular tools give you the most flexibility.

But if you're looking for 'peer' useage, have you had a look at articles on places specifically targetting sound design for TV, film and games? I'd suggest places like GamaSutra, Designing Sound, A Sound Effect etc
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resurrection
KVRer
 
18 posts since 18 May, 2018
Zebra
musicartist
Banned
If you're using FL Studio, you have some great included instruments that are great for sound design.

By the way, I didn't understand what do you mean by standard ?

Are you asking which software is mostly used for sound design ?
theorize
KVRist
 
343 posts since 26 Nov, 2007
Kiiryu wrote:I appreciate the input but I'm not quite that much of a beginner lol

Here are some sound effects I did for a game, to give somewhat of a benchmark,
https://soundcloud.com/kiiryu/as-sounds

Like I said, I know how to make sounds, and in most cases I can make what I'm looking for just through time, trial and error. Indeed, over time you can build up templates for things like a punch, that you can simply modify in the future when you need more.

My main question is basically "is there a better way" to do the digital, synthesized side of things. Messing with samples can be done via piano roll, pitch modification, filters, etc, so it can be done in anything; but what I do with Sytrus is a big part of my workflow, and I feel like there must be a better vst for that has wave shaping and working with noise/filters, but more options.

So to clarify, I'm not really looking for info on how to use samples, Foley, recording techniques, etc, I'm purely looking for alternatives to what I use for synthesis.


From the sounds you have here I think you might like a little tiny program called SFXR, it's wicked fun to use. You'll have to throw the sounds it exports through some FX for some polish but it comes up with these types of sounds extremely fast due to categorized randomization and it's easy to edit the randomised sounds if you get something close to what you want. Apparently someone has modified the program to expand it, called Bfxr... I'm downloading it now I'll report back on how I like it compared to the original. SFXR also has an android app that's a lot of fun to use if you're on the go, whenever you're stuck waiting somewhere you can make samples :)
I also HIGHLY recommend a program called Virtual ANS, it's not a do everything kind of synth but it can do some amazing stuff... you basically draw your sound FX and what's more is it works like an image editor, it has layers, you can set how the layers mix (subtract, add, xor and such), you can grab brushes from a selection (my favorite feature) and build a brush database... it really is a great program.
All of these I mentioned are free also.

+1 for the combined approach mentioned above, I think if you want more cinematic or huge types of sounds then you should really try some foley/sample manipulation along with synthesis. It's really cool the stuff you can come up with in an audio editor just applying FX after FX. You want a realistic punch sound? grab a big ole steak and record yourself punching it. Record all kinds of types of you banging on all types of materials (wood, metal, paper, plastic) using all types of materials to bang, scrape and make noise in any way you can. Do some field recordings, maybe go to construction sites or factories to get machine sounds... and so on. Hell once I was recording random stuff and a box full of stuff fell from a stack of boxes... it was one of my favorite samples for a while. Take all your recordings throw em in an audio editor, clean them up if you need to and start twisting them. It's a lot of fun and often yields results that would be very time consuming to try to do with synthesis.
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theorize
KVRist
 
343 posts since 26 Nov, 2007
OK I tried BFXR, and it's a definite improvement! It adds a bitcrusher and layering and a cool history type of list that I could see being really useful at times.
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