KVR Audio

low_low · Post by **low_low** » Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:56 pm

I'm bringing this up as a topic of conversation because of the disturbing lack of discussions at KVR (I did a search) of copyright issues related to music production. Most of the search results about copyright were from producers who were asking questions about the licenses they receive for the software they use, and almost NONE about their own licenses and copyrights.

So do you register your copyrights ?

For those who don't even know what that means ... you own a copyright when you create a work (such as producing a track), automatically, because you created it. That gives you rights such as reproduction, preparation of derivative works, distribution, performance, and display, and if people violate your copyright you have the ability to go after them in court.

REGISTRATION of your copyright with the U.S. Copyright office proves you are the copyright owner, and also means your attorney can recover his/her fees, and that you can get statutory damages if someone violates your copyright.

For example ... WITHOUT registration if some big biz used your song you might sue them in court, pay your own attorney, and end up with 5,000$us in damages. WITH registration, statutory damages are up to 150,000$us PER OCCURANCE (if willful) plus attorney fees, AND it isn't limited to the 5,000$us that you suffered in damages. It is a STATUTORY amount (written into law), meaning that just because they used your copyright without a license they are subject to paying these amounts regardless of the damage they caused.

So how many producers here are smart and register their copyrights, vote in the poll above ...

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:23 pm

What about non-US citizen?
And even with registration, you have to hunt down (and go sue) the perpetrators. What effort that costs...

low_low · Post by **low_low** » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:33 pm

BertKoor wrote:What about non-US citizen?
And even with registration, you have to hunt down (and go sue) the perpetrators. What effort that costs...

Yes, people outside the United States can register their copyrights in the United States, just like a U.S. citizen can. Keep in mind that mostly protects your property IN the United States, other countries laws offer different protections, but most western countries are parties to copyright treaties that provide basic protection for registered copyrights.

U.S. Copyright Office wrote:Can foreigners register their works in the United States?

Any work that is protected by U.S. copyright law can be registered. This includes many works of foreign origin. All works that are unpublished, regardless of the nationality of the author, are protected in the United States. Works that are first published in the United States or in a country with which we have a copyright treaty or that are created by a citizen or domiciliary of a country with which we have a copyright treaty are also protected and may therefore be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office. See Circular 38a, International Copyright Relations of the United States, for the status of specific countries, and Circular 38b, Copyright Restoration Under the URAA

To your point of having to "hunt down and sue", that's a LOT easier when your lawyer knows that your copyright is registered because s/he knows there will be statutory damages and that their fees will be covered. That is why it is so important to register, it's a completely different ballgame when your copyright is registered compared to when it is not.

Copyright lawyers LOVE cases when their clients have registered copyrights ... it is the copyrights that are not registered that get drawn out in court.

Some copyright cases are very simple ... the owner of the registered copyright gets word that their property is being used w/o permission on a business website, so they inform an attorney, they take screenshots of the website, and the lawyer files suit. The website owner either has a license from you, or they are infringing, simple as that, and since your copyright is prima facie evidence of ownership, it's all on them to settle with you. And when they know they're in the wrong, that one of their stupid interns knowingly stole your property from the Internet and put it on the website, knowing they could be hit for 150,000$us in statutory damages they're highly motivated to settle.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:33 pm

low_low wrote:I'm bringing this up as a topic of conversation because of the disturbing lack of discussions at KVR (I did a search) of copyright issues related to music production.

disturbing? You do realize that simple common sense suggest otherwise

So how many producers here are smart and register their copyrights, vote in the poll above ...

okay, this goes to my first point...sorry but again simple common sense suggests you dont go to a music forum to ask about copyright. A smart producer is going to set aside a few bux, maybe stop caving into gas and spend that money on a visit to an entertainment lawyer and get info he can trust. As much as I love KvR there are too many trolls, sockpuppets and ignorance (ignorance meaning lack of knowledge on the subject, not an attack on intelligence) to trust getting your info about something as important as legal advice from any forum like KvR.

YMMV, but you bet your ass if I was concerned about copyright a few hundred bux to see a lawyer is the smart producers choice.

low_low · Post by **low_low** » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:43 pm

Hink wrote:disturbing? You do realize that simple common sense suggest otherwise

okay, this goes to my first point...sorry but again simple common sense suggests you dont go to a music forum to ask about copyright. A smart producer is going to set aside a few bux, maybe stop caving into gas and spend that money on a visit to an entertainment lawyer and get info he can trust. As much as I love KvR there are too many trolls, sockpuppets and ignorance (ignorance meaning lack of knowledge on the subject, not an attack on intelligence) to trust getting your info about something as important as legal advice from any forum like KvR.

YMMV, but you bet your ass if I was concerned about copyright a few hundred bux to see a lawyer is the smart producers choice.

WTF dude, I'm obviously NOT a lawyer, and this thread is obviously for the purpose of general awareness as I was VERY OBVIOUSLY making jokes in the poll and trying to keep it light hearted to spark some discussion. Chill the F out ... it's an important topic and it isn't discussed enough among people who are creators, be that in music production, photography, painting, or any other creative endeavor. That you freaked out on me says more about you than it does about me.

an-electric-heart · Post by **an-electric-heart** » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:45 pm

In New Zealand (where I live... obviously), there's no formal copyright process, the very second something's created it's under copyright to the person that created it.

http://www.copyright.org.nz/basics.php

low_low · Post by **low_low** » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:48 pm

an-electric-heart wrote:In New Zealand (where I live... obviously), there's no formal copyright process, the very second something created it's under copyright to the person that created it.

http://www.copyright.org.nz/basics.php

It's the same in the United States, copyright is automatic once it is created, but in the United States registration of that copyright affords more protection, it's like a second step after the copyright is created in the U.S.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:53 pm

Largely #3. One notable exception, I (with the help of a friend) wrote a screenplay which is something very worthy of stealing and we copyrighted it and registered it with the SWG. My music, well it isn't attracting the kind of attention of someone figuring they might really profit behind it. However on the Youtube entries I create for it I mark most of it with the copyright sign (disallowed at KVR for some technical reason) and the year, anyway.

It seems like the other finished screenplay I did I copyrighted, albeit not in the Hollywood way via the guild but my memory fuzzes out regarding this whole era (early 90s).

Regarding advice from random, probably-not-authoritative-on-this-subject KVR members, one of them just advised to go and pay a lawyer if you're "concerned" about it.

Well... if you're "concerned" about it, why not just do it.
EG: the filing fee is $35 if you register one work, not made for hire, and you are the only author and claimant.

https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ04.pdf

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:06 pm

If you like the idea of a lawyer for this, you want a copyright lawyer.

chat with one online

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:09 pm

low_low wrote: the disturbing lack of discussions at KVR (I did a search) of copyright issues related to music production.

They all go like this. People type stuff, eventually someone inevitably remarks that no one is a lawyer so everybody STFU now.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:09 pm

low_low wrote:
Hink wrote:disturbing? You do realize that simple common sense suggest otherwise

okay, this goes to my first point...sorry but again simple common sense suggests you dont go to a music forum to ask about copyright. A smart producer is going to set aside a few bux, maybe stop caving into gas and spend that money on a visit to an entertainment lawyer and get info he can trust. As much as I love KvR there are too many trolls, sockpuppets and ignorance (ignorance meaning lack of knowledge on the subject, not an attack on intelligence) to trust getting your info about something as important as legal advice from any forum like KvR.

YMMV, but you bet your ass if I was concerned about copyright a few hundred bux to see a lawyer is the smart producers choice.
WTF dude, I'm obviously NOT a lawyer, and this thread is obviously for the purpose of general awareness as I was VERY OBVIOUSLY making jokes in the poll and trying to keep it light hearted to spark some discussion. Chill the F out ... it's an important topic and it isn't discussed enough among people who are creators, be that in music production, photography, painting, or any other creative endeavor. That you freaked out on me says more about you than it does about me.

you can tone it down now

sqigls · Post by **sqigls** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:32 am

an-electric-heart wrote:In New Zealand (where I live... obviously), there's no formal copyright process, the very second something's created it's under copyright to the person that created it.

http://www.copyright.org.nz/basics.php

exactly.
copyright is immediate.

there are additional procedures one can mess around with, but it all comes down to the judge. and an expensive court process.

it's not really about being 'smart', who the f**k has the time and money to go registering everything? I have hundreds and hundreds of tracks, the logistic headfuck is out of the question. If anyone steals my tracks, I'll settle it myself. Like I did with 2Pac and Biggie.

low_low · Post by **low_low** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:57 am

sqigls wrote:it's not really about being 'smart', who the f**k has the time and money to go registering everything? I have hundreds and hundreds of tracks, the logistic headfuck is out of the question. If anyone steals my tracks, I'll settle it myself. Like I did with 2Pac and Biggie.

Tupac's first album "2Pacalypse now" as registered at the copyright office.

Type of Work: Sound Recording
Registration Number / Date: SR0000172261 / 1993-08-19
Title: 2Pacalypse now / 2Pac.
Imprint: c1991.
Publisher Number: Interscope Records 7 91767-2
Description: Compact disc.
Notes: Photography: Victor Hall.
Copyright Claimant: ℗ on sound recording & photography; Interscope Records (employer for hire)
Date of Creation: 1991
Date of Publication: 1991-10-28
Contents: Young black male -- Trapped -- Soulja’s story -- I don’t give a f**k -- Violent -- Words of wisdom -- Something wicked -- Crooked ass nigga -- If my homie calls -- Brenda’s got a baby -- Tha’ lunatic -- Rebel of the underground -- Part time mutha.
Names: Hall, Victor
2Pac
Interscope Records

Biggie's first album "Ready to die" as registered at the copyright office.

Type of Work: Sound Recording
Registration Number / Date: SR0000206849 / 1995-03-13
Supplemented by: SR0000313014 / 2002-06-27
Title: Ready to die / the Notorious BIG.
Imprint: c1994.
Publisher Number: Bad Boy 78612-73000-2
Description: Compact disc.
Copyright Claimant: ℗ Arista Records, Inc.
Date of Creation: 1994
Date of Publication: 1994-09-13
Authorship on Application: photography, sound recording: Arista Records, Inc., employer for hire.
Previous Registration: Tracks 1, 3-5, 10-11, & 13-15 contain some prev. pub. sounds.
Basis of Claim: New Matter: all other sounds.
Copyright Note: See also Ready to die; Reg. 27Jun02; SR 313-014
Contents: Intro -- Things done changed -- Gimme the loot -- Machine gun funk -- Warning -- Ready to die -- One more chance -- #!*@ me (interlude) -- The what -- Juicy -- Everyday struggle -- Me & my bitch -- Big Poppa -- Respect -- Friend of mine -- Unbelievable -- Suicidal thoughts.

Other Title: The what.
Names: Notorious BIG
Arista Records, Inc.

low_low · Post by **low_low** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:11 am

jancivil wrote:Well... if you're "concerned" about it, why not just do it. EG: the filing fee is $35 if you register one work, not made for hire, and you are the only author and claimant.

https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ04.pdf

Exactly, and it's even cheaper if you register some works as "collections". As for someone above who complained about how long it takes, the copyright office has a website and accepts credit card payments, literally anyone who has time for a game of Fortnite has time to register a copyright.

low_low · Post by **low_low** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:22 am

But don't take my word for it, this guy is preaching ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SokvPlbsmo

KVR Audio

Do You Register Your Copyrights

Do You Register Your Copyrights