I probably need a shrink(Hardware VS software)

Anything about MUSIC but doesn't fit into the forums above.
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

A few years back, I had a chance to record with a very fine engineer. During a break, I was picking his brain about plug-ins vs. dedicated hardware, and his answer really stuck with me:

"I have a hardware LA-2A over there. It sounds really good! I have an LA-2A plug-in emulation in the DAW. It sounds really good! Are there sonic differences between the hardware and the software? Probably. Are there sonic differences between two different hardware LA-2As? Definitely. Some people get seriously worked up over these kinds of details, but I don't have time for that... I have recordings to make."

Post

Most people I've heard say something like this don't map midi.

I smile when I see people using modular analog synths who are talking about its benefits in terms of being able to get a more interesting sound because of the knobs, being able to experiment, etc ... I always think, well, you'd have the same experience if you just mapped some midi knobs and started using them for your VSTs. It takes less time to map midi than it does to put together the hardware modular synths, and you can save your patches instead of having to take photos of your patches to "save" them with hardware analog synths. Ever try to recreate a patch on a hardware synth ?

I think some of it is because it's really so easy to get overwhelmed with the possibilities of software synths, I know that had been true for me, at least in the beginning. You sit down with a synth and start experimenting with features, then another, and another, in software you can have literally 10, 20, 30 or more synths, even multiple copies of each, more than you'd ever have in modular analog without spending five or six figures, and it's very easy to just become lost in the features. I honestly think that most of the appeal of analog synths lately is because people just need to simplify, they want to have just one or two oscillators, have knobs to use with them, really understand what they're doing, and modular is a great training tool ... but if you just learn how to map midi knobs, choose ONE SIMPLE software synth, and sit down and really learn to use it, you get the very same experience. The challenge is that it is so easy to spend 150$us and get a synth with as many features as a analog synth that could cost you 10x or 20x as much for the same capabilities, so people get overwhelmed and their brains get overloaded.

There's a lot to be said for midi mapping a few knobs, closing everything else out in your DAW to get a really simplified interface, and then sitting down with the manual and actually LEARNING your software synth, experimenting with it, really playing around to get a sound and see what it's capable of .. it can be a very similar experience to messing around with analog if you let it, and if you ignore the millions of distractions that are on the computer while you're doing it.

Post

gaf_thit wrote: I think one of the reasons for my thinking, is that I have to compensate for the cost of the gear by using it instead of VSTi's.
This is the answer to the question. Not necessarily this reason specifically, but, the fact that you(we) invent reasons to support our justifications that have some other psychological root.

I think that you have to spend a lot more money on hardware that you don't use to make records before you finally get over this specific reason.

Post

I should say, lest there be confusion, that I have hardware. I have LOT of f**king hardware. I don't have the most on KVR, not by a long shot, but I'm pretty sure that I own more than the median pieces of hardware. Most of that comes from still having quite a bit of the gear from two major revisions of my home studio. Rev zero was four track portastudio, most of that gear is long gone. Rev one was DAT and/or 8-track 1/4" open reel, I still have that. Rev two was AW4416, I still have that. Along with that is all the racks of fx, the synthesizers, the cables, the processors, the patch bays, etc.

What a f**king mess!

I make more music now that I'm mostly ITB. When I do use hardware it's for some specific reason, or, it's just because I want to play with that specific piece of hardware. I'm over financial justifications, it's a hobby, it's always been a hobby, it will always be a hobby. I buy shit because I want to and it's fun.

Fun includes things like my analog synths. I like them, I like to use them, they take me in different directions just because of their physicality. Not that it's better physicality than a properly and fully mapped controller, just that it's different, each one is different, and each one can be learned and that makes the controls a part of the "instrument."

On the other hand, I like some hardware when it solves problems that I find annoying in software. I HATE recording guitar through plugins. Now, I don't mean that I hate how they sound, not at all, in fact I like to use plugins. I just hate the process of recording guitar, and also bass and vocals, such that the monitoring chain goes through the computer. And yes, I have a zero latency interface with built in DSP FX, and I hate futzing with that too, I like hardware. So I have hardware for that. The monitoring chain includes guitar fx and amp sims, in hardware, the vocal chain includes compression and reverb, just for monitoring, all in hardware, and I record the dry signals.

But I'm not spending a single minute futzing around with outboard EQs or compressors for actual production, or even mixing on an analog desk. Nor do I waste any time trying to use hardware synths just because they're hardware. On any project where I'm using analog synths, it's probably only a few parts at most. Good example, drum machines, f**k drum machines. f**k them all the way to hell and back. What a waste of f**king time drum machines are, and, let's be clear, I have an original 909 and I f**king love the kick/clap of the 909.

Sometimes I just don't want to deal with computers and I want the experience of just playing with my machines and recording what comes out. My analog room (really a closet) has an old mackie desk and I feed that into a field recorder. I don't try and multitrack the hardware though and so it's not a replacement for most music that I make, it just provides an environment where I don't have to think about fiddling, whatever comes out gets recorded. I get that it is a different experience, but it's not more real, it just has different overhead and sometimes it's pleasant to not have to experience the overhead of a modern DAW based studio.

IMNSHO, if you come up with honest reasons to use hardware that isn't born of psychological distortions and games that you play with yourself, you will find a better balance. YMMV and all that.

Post

+1 to everything Ghettosynth said. Especially the fact that I like to get stuff and to have stuff I can hold in my hands. I love software and have tons of it, but I feel the same way about hardware and I feel no need to justify that.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

Post

Shame on you guys. Really. Just... shame on you.

No, really, why would anyone have to justify anything? Actually, i admire your choice. I think i'm too much of a OCD guy myself to be able to let hardware and software happily reside with each other here. When i had the Blofeld here, i really felt bad, because the operation and menu diving felt clumsy, i hated that i would have to bounce everything down, i hated the voice limit, and i hated the fact that i couldn't run multiple instances. Especially as i have Largo, which lets me do all of that, and sounds 99% the same. On the other hand, i guess you could argue that it was a shocking display of the many advantages i got used to, up to the point i don't even notice the convenience anymore. Still, hardware with one knob per function is still pretty attractive for me. But expensive.

Post

chk071 wrote:When i had the Blofeld here, i really felt bad, because the operation and menu diving felt clumsy, i hated that i would have to bounce everything down, i hated the voice limit, and i hated the fact that i couldn't run multiple instances. Especially as i have Largo, which lets me do all of that, and sounds 99% the same. On the other hand, i guess you could argue that it was a shocking display of the many advantages i got used to, up to the point i don't even notice the convenience anymore.
Great example of hardware that I think is mostly pointless. The Blofeld is really just a plugin with its own dedicated host computer and sound card. Not that I'm trying to poo on the Blofeld here, if you love it, good for you, but IMNSHO, the main reason to own a Blofeld is that you like the sound of Largo/Waldorf VA, you are playing live, and you don't want to haul a computer out. I know that people like to justify those kinds of devices with "well I have a slow computer", etc., but if you are talking about bang for buck, buy a better computer instead, and if you are talking authentic experience, well, I don't see that "plugin in a tiny box" is any different than plugin on a computer. The one exception to that being, plugin in a computer usually has a MUCH better U/I.

Post

Yep. I felt that the advantage of keeping it would merely be a nice box on my desktop. Nice price, but, too few controls, too much menu diving, which kind of removes the hands on advantage of hardware for me, so, it didn't really make sense for me. YMMV.

Post

Okay but let’s not get too revisionist here. I’ve had a Q for a very long time, and eventually added a Blofeld to augment that. Largo came out long after the Blofeld, so I don’t think it is fair to characterize it as “the only reason to own a Blofeld is because you like Largo”. How about because you bought a synth before the plugin was introduced (and as far as I know, still doesn’t include the PPG LPF), and can’t be bothered to sell something that you already own and love? Hey guys, there’s Largo now, better throw all those Blofelds in the landfill!
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

Post

deastman wrote:Okay but let’s not get too revisionist here. I’ve had a Q for a very long time, and eventually added a Blofeld to augment that. Largo came out long after the Blofeld, so I don’t think it is fair to characterize it as “the only reason to own a Blofeld is because you like Largo”. How about because you bought a synth before the plugin was introduced (and as far as I know, still doesn’t include the PPG LPF), and can’t be bothered to sell something that you already own and love? Hey guys, there’s Largo now, better throw all those Blofelds in the landfill!
I said Largo/Waldorf VA, that's an -or- operation. I was trying to be inclusive of all such scenarios.

But also, what came out sounding a bit like fact was really just my opinion. I honestly don't get owning modern day knobless VA hardware. If you have some legit reason to own one, more power to you, I think that l already said that. What I'm railing against is the stories people make up to convince themselves that hardware is intrinsically better. I find that claim especially dubious when the hardware is little more than a plugin in a box.

The last Waldorf synth that interested me BTW was the microwave II XT.

Post


Post

Everybody needs a shrink for some reason or another. But in this case, it might be a cheaper solution to buy a good controller keyboard to get that “autenthic” hardware feel. Without a keyboard, you will just have to accept that making music on PC may be closer to playing computer games than instruments.

BTW: I went fully hardware in 2015 but obviously forgot to ask permission at KVR. Am I to be perma-banned now?

Post

It's bizarre to me that people are saying they didn't ask permission at KVR, that they don't have to justify using hardware, etc ... who said you did ? It's like people inventing adversaries to oppress them, unless I missed something on this thread nobody cares that you're using hardware synths one way or the other. Do whatever you want.

Post

Yes, irony is hard to grasp on the net and does not get better by being explained. But if you start a thread by suggesting you need a shrink because you get tired of software (for whatever reason), then you suggest that thinking software is insufficient is madness and needs justification. Obviously a joke. No need to feel bizarre over anything, just read the title of the thread and the OP with a little humor and distance. :wink:

Post

IncarnateX wrote:Yes, irony is hard to grasp on the net and does not get better by being explained. But if you start a thread by suggesting you need a shrink because you get tired of software (for whatever reason), then you suggest that thinking software is insufficient is madness and needs justification. Obviously a joke. No need to feel bizarre over anything, just read the title of the thread and the OP with a little humor and distance. :wink:
Cool, I was like ... wha ?? :D I thought ya'll were serious.

Post Reply

Return to “Everything Else (Music related)”