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Tablet 2 MIDI - Feature requests

Official support for: livelab.dk

Moderator: ohm

ohm
KVRAF
 
1521 posts since 2 Jul, 2004

Postby ohm; Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:46 pm

no support for any of the features you mention. NRPN is planned - what applications/ plugins support NRPN?
Relative / incremental values are excellent ideas - I assume you mean adding a "midi in" to tablet2midi so applications can send the current value to tablet2midi on a patch change right?
http://www.livelab.dk - slice up your life
ingredient t
KVRer
 
15 posts since 14 Dec, 2005

Postby ingredient t; Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:35 pm

ohm wrote:no support for any of the features you mention. NRPN is planned - what applications/ plugins support NRPN?
Relative / incremental values are excellent ideas - I assume you mean adding a "midi in" to tablet2midi so applications can send the current value to tablet2midi on a patch change right?


hell, man, I don't know. I don't think you need a midi loop to do incremental values. I thought it just needs to send "+1" or "-1" message depending on which direction the controller is moving. kind of like how the NI 4control works. (then again, I've never actually used a 4control, so I'm not 100% sure how it works.)

you could also implement some sort of acceleration function, a la the Doepfer Pocket Dial. imagine the ill-ass scratch styles that are yet to be unleashed. but you do seem to have your hands full, so god bless you for your efforts.
Eska
KVRist
 
48 posts since 7 Jun, 2005, from Austria

Postby Eska; Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:16 am

The drawback on "Relative / incremental" is that this is aspecial data format and there is no standard. Simple data feedback - adding a "midi in" to tablet2midi so applications can send the current value to tablet2midi on a patch change - is the better way, as you get visual feedback too. I`m using the Behringer BCR2000 hardware controller with Reaktor this way.
drace
KVRer
 
1 post since 21 Apr, 2002

Postby drace; Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:59 am

any support for wacom intuos 3 planned ?
I mean support for ExpressKeys and Touch Strip(s)... :)
ohm
KVRAF
 
1521 posts since 2 Jul, 2004

Postby ohm; Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:08 am

A new, bugfixed version of tablet2midi is available from the website. Comments more than welcome.

adding a "midi in" to tablet2midi so applications can send the current value to tablet2midi on a patch change - is the better way

I agree but come to think of it - incremental midi doesn't make much sense when using a pen - the values being sent is depending one one thing: the position of the pen - it doesn't matter what the previous value was.
It makes sense with knobs because they are circular, but it would hardly make sense to implement a "knob" controller type in Tablet2Midi. Controlling a knob with a pen :-)

I have no plans regarding Intuos 3 support - I'd need an intuos 3 for that to make 100% sense. So far I cannot afford one :-( Touch Strips sound cool though - must check it out :-)
http://www.livelab.dk - slice up your life
fabi
KVRAF
 
1582 posts since 1 Jun, 2003

Postby fabi; Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:13 am

from your site:

Tablet 2 MIDI

v.0.70 Pubic Beta (7z)


hehe, tablet 2 midi is approaching puberty, or what's going on with the pubic (hair)? ;)
ohm
KVRAF
 
1521 posts since 2 Jul, 2004

Postby ohm; Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:20 am

from your site:

Quote:
Tablet 2 MIDI

v.0.70 Pubic Beta (7z)


hehe, tablet 2 midi is approaching puberty, or what's going on with the pubic (hair)? Wink

It's getting very hairy indeed - thanks for pointing out the typo :-)
http://www.livelab.dk - slice up your life
ingredient t
KVRer
 
15 posts since 14 Dec, 2005

Postby ingredient t; Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:23 pm

I have to disagree that incremental MIDI values don't make sense with a pen and tablet. I think the pen is uniquely suited to incremental values, precisely because you can pick up the pen and place it anywhere else on the tablet without changing the value in software. The "killer app" for this feature in my mind is the ability to scrub or "scratch" audio files of arbitrary length with adjustable resolution.

I already do this in Reaktor with just the mouse or sometimes a Kenton Control Freak, but the mouse is awkward and the Control Freak has limited resolution.

With the pen and tablet, if you wanted to scrub forward, you would place the pen on the left side of the tablet and stroke to the right (or vice versa, obviously). And to scrub backward you would do the opposite.

In my mind, this is much more precise and expressive than using absolute values, and much more like traditional vinyl scratching or tape scrubbing than you could achieve with absolute values. Am I right or am I right?
ohm
KVRAF
 
1521 posts since 2 Jul, 2004

Postby ohm; Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:20 am

ingredient t: You are absolutely right - it would make sense for scratching, and for volume changes as well.

I found a description of how incremental midi messages should be interpreted - so it does seem to be part of the standard. Do you guys know of any apps / plugins that support incremental midi (apart from Reaktor) ?
http://www.livelab.dk - slice up your life
ohm
KVRAF
 
1521 posts since 2 Jul, 2004

Postby ohm; Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:26 am

Kewl - I found out that 14 bit midi, NRPN and Incremental Midi uses the same part of the midi standard. I successfully implemented NRPN and tested with ohmforce frohmage - all ohmforce products support NRPN. Next step will be incremental midi, updates to the GUI and a new release will be ready (within a week or so :-)
http://www.livelab.dk - slice up your life
fabi
KVRAF
 
1582 posts since 1 Jun, 2003

Postby fabi; Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:27 am

can anyone explain, how incremental works in the context of midi scratching, e.g.? i am not sure what the difference to absolute value would be.

does it mean that it would change the midi values more like using the mouse mode on a graphics tablet? if yes, i guess it would be useful to avoid value jumping, since you will start with the last value, whereas in absolute mode it's unlikely you'll put down at the right spot again.

ohm, i think audiomulch supports nrpn for all automation. afaik it should be possible in mulch to use nrpn to automate any vst, but the ohmforce might be one of the few devs who do it on plug-level.
ohm
KVRAF
 
1521 posts since 2 Jul, 2004

Postby ohm; Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:06 am

Incremental midi work exactly like when using the mouse mode on a tablet. The application / plugin receives a message to increment / decrement the value of a controller. Tablet2midi knows nothing about the actual value - it inly cares about the direction the pen is moving.

It only works if the receiver is listening for incremental values - I have no idea who supports it, but my guess is that if you support NRPN you are very likely to support incremental values as well - like I said earlier: it's on the same page of the midi standard spec. :-)
http://www.livelab.dk - slice up your life
Eska
KVRist
 
48 posts since 7 Jun, 2005, from Austria

Postby Eska; Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:13 am

In the Doepfer Pocket-Dial manual( http://www.doepfer.de/pdf/pd_man.pdf), page 33-35, is some information about the different incremental modes.
ohm
KVRAF
 
1521 posts since 2 Jul, 2004

Postby ohm; Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:37 am

Thanks Eska - that document gives a great overview of the three (!) different ways of doing incremental midi.

One of the methods is part of the standard - the other two was invented by doepfer and Native Instruments - it's a mystery to me why the two companies chose to violate the MIDI standard... well done is done, I will have to support all three modes.
http://www.livelab.dk - slice up your life
peanut
KVRist
 
45 posts since 25 Apr, 2004

Postby peanut; Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:46 pm

osx version please :)
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