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Tablet 2 MIDI - Feature requests

Official support for: livelab.dk

Moderator: ohm

ohm
KVRAF
 
1521 posts since 2 Jul, 2004

Postby ohm; Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:13 pm

VariKusBrainZ wrote:
ohm wrote:
The trackpad 2 midi is a nice idea - I'm not sure if it's possible, but if it is, I'm on it :-)


should be as there exists an external for PD that was written for the Toshiba trackpad


It's definately possible - I just downloaded a software developer kit from synaptics - that should cover most PC laptop touchpads I think. I don't ..really.. have time, but it will be hard to resist doing touchpad 2 midi as well.
http://www.livelab.dk - slice up your life
kodama
KVRAF
 
1788 posts since 12 Jun, 2004, from Portland, OR

Postby kodama; Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:28 pm

Ohm,

I think a good feature would be buttons to switch what CC#s sliders are mapped to, or to at least switch the midi chan # so people can switch from one device to another.

I would also echo the request for OS X/Intel.

Does anyone make "pens" you can put on your fingertip?

Also, is Adesso the good cheap brand?
lung
KVRist
 
346 posts since 23 Apr, 2003

Postby lung; Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:26 pm

A few FR's:

1. Ability to use multiple USB touch pads (like this one,2 button, smaller touch area, or this one, 4 button, larger touch area) along with Tablet2Midi running at the same time (all lined-up in a grid or a row, plugged into an USB hub) for a reasonably priced 'Multi-Touch' controller! Ability to use Tablet2MIDI to switch patches like FR #3 to change the 'meta-patch' of all the USB touch pads and Tablet2Midi.

2. I read someone requesting this as well (but I can't seem to locate the post for some reason), but:
I'd like to be able to see where the cursor is on the screen when the pen is floating above the tablet, and not only when it is being pressed down.

3. Ability to have different patches ready for instant recall 'on the fly' by switching to the next patch of a meta-patch (or bank..call it what you will).. so that you can have a second or third or .. setup instantly recalled.. (say for example to have separate patches setup to edit your different vsti's, one patch for a mixer, etc.) so you can have say a controller interface come on instantly (like another tab almost). You could print different controller sheet wireframe outlines onto the same page using different coloured ink for each setup (blue for setup 1, red for setup 2, green for setup 3, etc.). The ability to have a hotkey defined for each setup would be amazing for a live setup .. (say F1 for patch 1 , F2 for patch 2 etc.), or the ability to have an area defined (box) where you can tap to switch patches/templates on the fly (say 5 boxes along the bottom to instantly switch between 5 setups), or to be able to define that area as a toggle/scroll between patches.

4. Ghost traces. This would allow you to see if you are drawing curved lines or straight lines as a visual guide. Plus it would look cool =]

5. Gesture support. <next version :)> Like the Firefox gesture extensions: here (this is one of many extensions). A gesture, or hotkey+gesture could send many different controller messages (start, stop, program change, etc.) As well, if the #3 FR was implemented, a quick gesture (or hotkey + gesture) would switch between Tablet2Midi patches.

6. anyways.. this is turning out to be a v. cool app. .looking forward to Continuum Fingerboard Controller-like functionality as well (if it's on the list).

Thx ohm!! =] Cheers

/edit .. a few more:)

7. Ability to have one control parameter control multiple CC's (using a simple + button or similar to add a second, third, etc. CC like eXT does with insert fx) [for example, x axis of xy-pad controls CC14, CC15 & inverse CC16(see next FR)].

8. Ability to define inverse CC out, log, adjustable semi-randomness/jitter, drawable table XY Controller maps (like Cycling74 MAX), triggerable/adjustable LFO's etc. for a CC out (or just implement vemberaudio shortcircuit-like drawable/smoothable LFO/map that will do most of these all at once). (I know modular SE plugins by nicfit/soma do some of this, but nice to have built-into a patch/setup).

9. Building on 8.. host VST MIDI fx plugins.. like eXT :) .. one day ..when you're bored and your beard drags on the floor

that's it :)
ohm
KVRAF
 
1521 posts since 2 Jul, 2004

Postby ohm; Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:57 am

thanks for the input lung

1: I'm gonna finish tablet 2 midi as it is before I start thinking about touchpad stuff, but I agree - if it's possible to support more than one touchpad I will - I didn't know they were that cheap btw. thanks for the links.

2: already done

3: the patches load pretty quickly from disk actually, so I was thinking to allow midi input to load patches from the currently selected directory, so you can change patch from within your sequencer. Using the F-keys is another good idea. I like the idea of having multiple setups printed on one paper - you could even use the button of the pen to switch the active layout. It might be a bit confusing though.

4: hmmm... why would you need visual feedback to know if you are drawing straight or curved lines?

5: thought about that actually, I use firefox myself :-) I've been using palm pilots for a while too, so I know how powerfull pen gestures can be, and you need just a small area of the tablet to send dozens of different messages.

6: I'm not going for the continuum fingerboard emulation right away - I think the built in limitations of the tablets go too much against the idea. You can use a maximum of two pens, and most tablets have a significant latancy when a pen has been removed from the surface, before the driver will exit "sleep mode" and start transmitting. This latency would be very noticable when triggering notes / playing a melody

7, 8, 9: as you say: this can be done in the host using midi effects, so It's on the "nice to have" list, probably not for v.1. I'll probably do simple stuff like min / max value ranges (will allow to inverse parameters too). You can have multiple CC's from one controller by layering two controllers.

kodama:
The button to toggle midi map FR is on my list.
OSX support... maybe in a while... :) it will require a complete rewrite of all gui and tablet related code
dunno about fingertip pens, but if you don't mind sacrificing your tablet pens you can probably do it yourself.
the adesso touchpads mentioned in the links above are NOT tablets - they are touchpads. There's a big difference in that touchpads are much smaller, less accurate and are operated using your fingers, not a pen.

The cheap tablets go by the names thrust, medion or aiptek (same hardware). They are cheap in A4 sizes, work stable enough using the thrust drivers, but they don't have tilt / rotation output. To get that you need to spend 8 times as much on a Wacom Intuos.
http://www.livelab.dk - slice up your life
VariKusBrainZ
KVRAF
 
3591 posts since 16 Dec, 2002, from over there

Postby VariKusBrainZ; Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:15 am

ohm wrote:
VariKusBrainZ wrote:
ohm wrote:
The trackpad 2 midi is a nice idea - I'm not sure if it's possible, but if it is, I'm on it :-)


should be as there exists an external for PD that was written for the Toshiba trackpad


It's definately possible - I just downloaded a software developer kit from synaptics - that should cover most PC laptop touchpads I think. I don't ..really.. have time, but it will be hard to resist doing touchpad 2 midi as well.


Cooool......hope you get around to it..... in the meantime heres a Drumpad and theramin to play with :D

http://www.synaptics.com/support/utili.cfm
kodama
KVRAF
 
1788 posts since 12 Jun, 2004, from Portland, OR

Postby kodama; Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:30 am

ohm wrote:the adesso touchpads mentioned in the links above are NOT tablets - they are touchpads. There's a big difference in that touchpads are much smaller, less accurate and are operated using your fingers, not a pen.



I meant this one:

http://www.adesso.com/products_detail.asp?productid=275


Anyone tried one of those?
ohm
KVRAF
 
1521 posts since 2 Jul, 2004

Postby ohm; Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:31 pm

That adesso tablet looks identical to my Medion, only the mouse is different. It definately works with tablet 2 midi as it's the tablet I use for testing. The same tablet is sold under the brands Thrust and Aiptek. It works great - just get the drivers from Thrust they are most up to date, and available from their website. I had problems with the medion drivers and hibernation.

Only thing I really miss is the tilt and rotation parameters

VariKusBrainZ: that drumpad definately proves that it's possible to use the touchpads for audio - thanks for the link.
http://www.livelab.dk - slice up your life
Eska
KVRist
 
48 posts since 7 Jun, 2005, from Austria

Postby Eska; Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:46 am

For data reduktion a -maybe global- speed and pressure treshold would be nice.
ohm
KVRAF
 
1521 posts since 2 Jul, 2004

Postby ohm; Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:54 am

Eska wrote:For data reduktion a -maybe global- speed and pressure treshold would be nice.

why the need for data reduction? I'm asking because there are many ways of doing it - I could add a user configurable data rate control for example, I'd like to know what problems the hight data rate are causing you guys before I start implementing it.
Remember that limiting the data rate will cause less smooth parameter changes, and you can always disable the pressure and speed parameters if you don't use them (just set the "type" control to off - the lowest setting)
http://www.livelab.dk - slice up your life
ohm
KVRAF
 
1521 posts since 2 Jul, 2004

Postby ohm; Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:34 am

I couldn't help it - I created a small draft of a touchpad 2 midi app. it's available here. It allows you to use your default touchpad as four midi controllers (sliders), hardcoded to output Continuous Controllers 0,1,2, and 3.

more info, room for discussion in this thread

Please don't comment on touchpad stuff in the thread here, to avoid confusion.

Cheers :-)
http://www.livelab.dk - slice up your life
Eska
KVRist
 
48 posts since 7 Jun, 2005, from Austria

Postby Eska; Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:03 pm

I just wanted the program not to send data when I do'nt move the pen. But I may think to digital, my guitar sometimes makes noises when I just look at it.
I just noticed,that it is possible to layer boxes - and I do't have to start inside the box, never tried this before. Strumming time!!
Very good!But when I move inside the box I get a lot of retriggers. A noteOn on entering - with pressure=velocity and notOff on leaving the box would be enough for me.
fabi
KVRAF
 
1574 posts since 1 Jun, 2003

Postby fabi; Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:38 pm

Eska wrote:I just wanted the program not to send data when I do'nt move the pen. But I may think to digital, my guitar sometimes makes noises when I just look at it.
I just noticed,that it is possible to layer boxes - and I do't have to start inside the box, never tried this before. Strumming time!!
Very good!But when I move inside the box I get a lot of retriggers. A noteOn on entering - with pressure=velocity and notOff on leaving the box would be enough for me.


is that when you layer buttons or xy-pads? with xy-pads i could understand the retriggering, but i have never actually tried the buttons, yet.
Eska
KVRist
 
48 posts since 7 Jun, 2005, from Austria

Postby Eska; Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:55 pm

Both. It is not a matter of layering. In note mode the note events are sent with control rate ( sounds like). So the FR must be: to have a single noteOn on entering the box,x or y might modulate the note number, a noteOff on leaving, and an optional routing of the other parameters to velocity. That would be perfect, I think.
Eska
KVRist
 
48 posts since 7 Jun, 2005, from Austria

Postby Eska; Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:46 am

For modulating the note number I see the problem: this would require additional parameter rows for base and range.
ohm
KVRAF
 
1521 posts since 2 Jul, 2004

Postby ohm; Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:41 am

Eska wrote:when I move inside the box I get a lot of retriggers. A noteOn on entering - with pressure=velocity and notOff on leaving the box would be enough for me.

I haven't looked at note output for some time (all the 14 bit and relative midi stuff took much attention). I'll check out what I can do to avoid retriggering notes.
http://www.livelab.dk - slice up your life
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