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Is it just me, or do bootsie's plugins don't do the trick...

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion

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Compyfox
KVRAF
 
11111 posts since 18 Oct, 2003, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Compyfox; Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:59 am Is it just me, or do bootsie's plugins don't do the trick...

...at least not to me.


I was sorting out plugins last night, and unfortunately, Bootsie's creations are among them. It's a pity, cause they got very positive feedback and the likes. But I dunno - it's just not doing it for me.

I don't know what's wrong. It's not the loading times (they're fairly okay), it's not the GUI's (they look okay, too)... but it's the sound.

Density - I have tons of Compression alternatives, and that M/S matrix never really did it for me.

TesslaSE - after listening to ton of lowend enhancers and saturators, so far nothing really worked for me except for Nomad Factory (the Tape Machine), Elogoxa Baxxpander and now the Pultronic EQ. Either it's too subtle, or I just didn't understand the concept. I can hear nothing.

Rescue - Is the only plugin I'd keep (along with NastyCS mayhaps). It's a bit intense however and after listening to Mathew Lane's DrMS, I still prefer something subtle rather than crazy editing. It sure is not your any-day M/S tool - but as general transient designer... not a chance. Not in my book at least. If it'd be "without" the M/S features (for mono tracks) and you could actually tweak attack/release rather than having one big knob - then I might take a second closer look. But in general... maybe only interesting for bland and boring loops where you don't know how to spread them out, and/or give them more punch.

Nasty Series - to be honest, I couldn't get the TableTop thing to run properly (how to chain the NastyLF with the HF anyway?! Oh wait it's an own PLUG? It doesn't do JACK!) - it does create some "mojo" however, but that mojo is "what"? The NastyVSD never created any usable results to me either (yet another saturator to me). And the NastyCS sure looks like a Neve EQ, and this is another one of the plugin series I'd keep, but I don't know... it didn't click for me.

BootEQ - it looked good on papers, but "musically sounding" - not in my book. I boosted the sh*t out of this thing, and it was like, as if I was only pushing 2dB of gain (positive or negative).




Maybe it's just me, maybe it's my host/engine that the plugs don't work as they should. But I didn't get any suitable results out of these plugins.

Does that mean, that I don't know how much "worth" these plugins are? Is my critism uncalled for and should I hide in the corner? Am I the only one who thinks like that?

I mean I have TONS of plugins (all of them kinda doing similar stuff), and I'm happy to use even 20% of them in most of my productions - which sounds a bit intense already. So why not focus, on what I might really "need"?

Word up...
sockofgold
KVRAF
 
2272 posts since 5 Aug, 2007

Postby sockofgold; Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:02 am

I just get annoyed by how long SM stuff takes to load, so that always turned me off of them. I'm looking forward to trying EpicVerb, though. I could handle a long load time for a great reverb, but not for EQ/compressors, of which I will be using many per track.
Shy
KVRAF
 
4944 posts since 26 Jun, 2004

Postby Shy; Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:20 am

Nasty series - you didn't get any suitable results. I sure did. Not on everything, on certain things. They can be subtle and they can be nasty, and either way I think the difference is very noticeable, for better or worse.
KleVeR
KVRist
 
278 posts since 18 Aug, 2006

Postby KleVeR; Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:26 am

Hm.. I'm not gonna comment on the other ones you couldn't feel.
But you have to try BootEQ once more.
Make sure to turn the shape knob at the top anti-clockwise ;-)

It is IMHO the best freeware EQ ever created. Especially for the top end. (and yes, I have tried ddmf's ColourEQ.. it's good, but certainly isn't able to do what BootEQ can do to the top end..)

I have compared it for days with all the EQs I have. Payware and freeware.
My favorite EQ for the top end was UAD Neve 1073. And second came the EQ section of UAD Neve 88RS as a perfect general channel EQ.

Compared side by side with those, BootEQ stands really really strong.. especially considering the pretty low CPU load.

None of the other EQs I have could even come close to the top end and high mid-band gloss the 1073 is able to generate.
BootEQ is so close, I couldn't justify paying again 249$ for the 1073 if I already haven't got it.. ah, I couldn't even justify spending 2.49$.. cause BootEQ is free.

The only negative aspect of BootEQ is it's limited to a sampling rate of 44.1 kHz. But that's not a problem for me because I only work at that rate right now.

Just my impression of that little gem Bootsie has created.
pico
KVRist
 
53 posts since 24 Mar, 2004

Postby pico; Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:41 am

It's the digital era, i tried bootsy's,even i own uad's but still keep returning to my old analog eq, i dunno where all this fuzz comes from.
I can't name 1 digital eq that can reproduce second and third harmonics.
OMNIFEX
KVRist
 
286 posts since 23 May, 2006, from Great Neck, New York

Postby OMNIFEX; Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:42 am

The only Bootsie plug-in I use is the Nasty LF although I have his whole collection. It gives me what I want when others won't. I can't say I ever considered his creations replicas of a particular hardware design. That goes for every plug-in claiming to be replicas of the original as well.

I'm an Equaliser fanatic so, I can appreciate what the Nasty LF brings to the table. :)

No load time delays here. It seems Wavelab and Samplitude doesn't require re-scanning the plug-in folders everytime you execute the program.

Cheers!
OMNIFEX

14.8 GB Of VST Effects And Growing By The Moment :D
TristezaOrange
angelboy
 
4607 posts since 20 Aug, 2001, from Larnaca, Cyprus

Postby TristezaOrange; Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:27 pm

I put Rescue on everything. It's like my magic wand - "hey, that sounds lifeless - I KNOW! - I'll just throw Rescue on it!". :lol: Really, I should probably be more careful with it.
eduardo_b
KVRAF
 
11955 posts since 22 Nov, 2004, from west of east

Postby eduardo_b; Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:33 pm

I think the problem is that while some love and rave about certain plugs, others quite naturally wonder what all the fuss is about. For effects, a lot of it depends on what kinds of music the person developing the plug is into. I've tried stuff and wondered what the point of it was, but then found out what the author was creating and realized why it didn't do a thing for me. Bootsie's stuff, while nice, doesn't do anything my payware plugs can't do, but at the same time, he is giving it away, which is more generosity than many of us can come up with. :)
We escape the trap of our own subjectivity by
perceiving neither black nor white but shades of grey
Compyfox
KVRAF
 
11111 posts since 18 Oct, 2003, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Compyfox; Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:11 pm

Well I'm not saying that this is not generous, or that they might be bad per se. They just don't do it for me.

I dunno... BootEQ didn't create anything useful, no matter at which settings. At least nothing that I couldn't recreate with another EQ. The NastyCS is more to my liking, but a bit hard to handle (was the hardware, from where it was inspired from, like that, too?) and the bands upside down.

Rescuse on the other hand is a very, very interesting concept. But really... if I create a M/S matrix with like bx_digital, or ukm's M/S tools, and change the transients with Flux Bittersweet2 and the wideness of the side with a phase shifter, wouldn't I get the same thing? Granted it is in ONE Plugin, but if you can't get it wider with conventional ways, do you really need it?

And the NastySeries in general... it's basically a lowfreq/hifreq exciter - a thing that clas can do, except for the boost and the volume compensation. But do you really need such a thing? Can't you do that with proper EQ and compression, too?


I guess it's really just a convenience issue. It's sad that these plugs have to go from my HDD - but I have so many plugins that I barely use. I usually always come back to IIEQ, Kjaerhus, GVST Comp and the ReaPlugs - and for send effects TAL, Kjaerhus and ArtsAcoustic. Only for special reasons I need something else (like an autopanner, transient designer, etc) - which is rare.

UNLESS you really want to use one different comp per channel (aka like the hardware limits). But EQ wise, you usually use what your mixer desk has to offer.


Do we really need that much stuff? I mean... we (musicians and engineers) made music before with way less and it sounded great. Or am I thinking the wrong way?
TristezaOrange
angelboy
 
4607 posts since 20 Aug, 2001, from Larnaca, Cyprus

Postby TristezaOrange; Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:18 pm

The thing is, I have tried the demos of very expensive (waves-expensive) plug-ins and while they are pretty cool I'm sure that if they took the Bootsie plug-ins, stuck a, let's say, Lexicon logo or something on them and sold them as a pack for $500, people would still get excited. Does everyone need plug-ins of this caliber to be 'pro' or have a complete studio? Of course not, but having them for free is unbelievable. The same goes for the digitalfishphones stuff.
eduardo_b
KVRAF
 
11955 posts since 22 Nov, 2004, from west of east

Postby eduardo_b; Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:19 pm

Compyfox wrote:I guess it's really just a convenience issue. It's sad that these plugs have to go from my HDD - but I have so many plugins that I barely use. I usually always come back to IIEQ, Kjaerhus, GVST Comp and the ReaPlugs - and for send effects TAL, Kjaerhus and ArtsAcoustic. Only for special reasons I need something else (like an autopanner, transient designer, etc) - which is rare.
I think you've actually acquired wisdom that many don't yet have. You know what works for you, which is why you return to certain plugs time and again, whereas the rest are not being used. If you try a plug two or three times and find you don't have reason to go back to it, then it's not working for you. Not only is there nothing wrong with that, it saves you a lot of time and effort better spent with tools you know and like.
We escape the trap of our own subjectivity by
perceiving neither black nor white but shades of grey
User avatar
Dean Aka Nekro
KVRAF
 
6085 posts since 4 Oct, 2007, from A shitty little village that I will re-escape soon

Postby Dean Aka Nekro; Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:26 pm

eduardo_b wrote:I think the problem is that while some love and rave about certain plugs, others quite naturally wonder what all the fuss is about. For effects, a lot of it depends on what kinds of music the person developing the plug is into. I've tried stuff and wondered what the point of it was, but then found out what the author was creating and realized why it didn't do a thing for me. Bootsie's stuff, while nice, doesn't do anything my payware plugs can't do, but at the same time, he is giving it away, which is more generosity than many of us can come up with. :)


Some very good points made their eduardo mate (as usual)

Myself - i have had some good results with bootsie's plug-ins. However like nigh on all plug-ins both freeware and payware i have used or do use they do not sound great on everything i try them on: if such plug-ins existed then there would be no point or need for anything else to be developed! :lol: So i leave hype out of things (but it is a good way of getting an idea that something is worth a look i must add - thanks to all the hypers around: your work is appreciated) and on face value they are rather quite good. I imagine for people with little to zero in the way of budget/funds they are amazing and essential plug-ins. They do what they say on the tin and shall remain in my VstPlugins folder

Dean
eduardo_b
KVRAF
 
11955 posts since 22 Nov, 2004, from west of east

Postby eduardo_b; Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:27 pm

TristezaOrange wrote:The thing is, I have tried the demos of very expensive (waves-expensive) plug-ins and while they are pretty cool I'm sure that if they took the Bootsie plug-ins, stuck a, let's say, Lexicon logo or something on them and sold them as a pack for $500, people would still get excited. Does everyone need plug-ins of this caliber to be 'pro' or have a complete studio? Of course not, but having them for free is unbelievable. The same goes for the digitalfishphones stuff.
I think there's a psychological assumption that expensive "pro" stuff must be "better," although whether there's demonstrable proof of this superiority is open to question. It's easy enough to say something is overpriced when the difference between it and less expensive versions aren't obvious. On the other hand, it may be that the ability to hear the difference comes with experience and hours of critical listening. Which is to say, if you really can't hear it, you probably don't need it.
We escape the trap of our own subjectivity by
perceiving neither black nor white but shades of grey
eduardo_b
KVRAF
 
11955 posts since 22 Nov, 2004, from west of east

Postby eduardo_b; Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:40 pm

NEKRO.MACHINE wrote:Myself - i have had some good results with bootsie's plug-ins. However like nigh on all plug-ins both freeware and payware i have used or do use they do not sound great on everything i try them on:
That great variable, personal taste, can overcome any objective assessment, can't it? :)

It's really interesting when someone who seems very experienced and knowledgeable raves about this plug or that, and others find themselves not hearing the same wonderful things. Where is the problem...it must be me because this other person clearly knows far more than I do. And yet...what they know is also influenced by what they like and what they don't, just like everyone else.
We escape the trap of our own subjectivity by
perceiving neither black nor white but shades of grey
User avatar
Dean Aka Nekro
KVRAF
 
6085 posts since 4 Oct, 2007, from A shitty little village that I will re-escape soon

Postby Dean Aka Nekro; Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:43 pm

Compyfox wrote:Do we really need that much stuff? I mean... we (musicians and engineers) made music before with way less and it sounded great. Or am I thinking the wrong way?


No i somewhat agree CompyFox and also i too have 'go to' plug-ins within my Vst folder in a sub-folder: 'Nekro Essentials' (seriously) and then all the lesser used stuff and i use the essentials every time and the rest here and their.

Rant Mode In >

I wish bloody Pro Tools would let me organize my shit in the same way :x (apart from letting me have default EQ and Compressor plug-ins available with one click on an insert where i can choose any plug-in its still not as organized the way i want it to be :x

Rant Mode out >

Dean
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