KVR Audio

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:12 pm

BTW, i would have thought you guys from FX would have learned some lesson from GMedia about posting stuff before a product is released....MiniMonsta anyone?

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:13 pm

Kriminal wrote:BTW, i would have thought you guys from FX would have learned some lesson from GMedia about posting stuff before a product is released....MiniMonsta anyone?

Go on, what happened? (I wasn't around these parts then)

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:30 pm

Shy wrote: PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:26 am Andy: for some reason I much prefer the sound of this. I too wasn't impressed by the demos on the FXpansion site. I think if you want to show off your synth's quality, their "analogness", then surely it would be much easier to hear without any effects, especially drum samples and other unrelated stuff all around.

I think you've done a very decent job and obviously worked hard on emulating filters and oscillators. Maybe the result is even better than any other currently available synths. I still hear nothing that could replace my real analog synths, and it has nothing to do with "it being a physical instrument" (I couldn't care less about that). But the future is bright if the core components are being developed with sound quality taken seriously.

andy_cytomic wrote:PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:02 pm
I like on the Sh-101 that you can never really screw it up even if you randomly move every fader you still get something useful. It's just so easy to use, and it has a great sounding filter using the Roland custom filter chip the IR3109. That and the diode clipper in the feedback really make it growl. Hats off to the Roland engineers that made it, it's such a fun synth to use and they are pretty cheap to pick up second hand - I definitely recommend getting one.

Hi Shy,

As you can see I agree with you about keeping your sh-101, in fact I already recommending for people to buy one if they don't have one!

I have done a filter sweep demo similar in style to the one you did with your 101. Towards the end I start swapping the filter responses around and then increase the filter drive (I've included the wav version as well since mp3 doesn't really cut it for these kinds of sounds):
http://www.vellocet.com/SynthSquadAudio ... tweaks.mp3
http://www.vellocet.com/SynthSquadAudio ... tweaks.wav

So Shy, are these demos a little better to show the analog modeling?

Andrew Simper

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:25 pm

fintain wrote:hi andy,
Is there any chance you could do similar plots without driving the filter and the vca, you can count on the fingers of one hand the synths that do anti-aliasing properly and it would be great if these synths can join the club. Say a 10 khz saw tooth or 25-75 pulse.

Hi fintain, can you please let me know if these plots cover what you wanted?

I have done lots of plots generated from the x2 (default oversampling for realtime use) sweeps I have just posted with drive at -12 dB amp at 0 dB and level at +12 dB
http://www.vellocet.com/SynthSquadAudioDemos/Plots/

Here are all the saw and saw sync plots plots:

Anderw Simper

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:53 pm

Kriminal wrote:it it out yet?

Angus has answered that question in a previous post. There has been no change I am aware of to what he said since then.

Andrew Simper

S-N-S · Post by **S-N-S** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:06 pm

andy_cytomic wrote:
fintain wrote:hi andy,
Is there any chance you could do similar plots without driving the filter and the vca, you can count on the fingers of one hand the synths that do anti-aliasing properly and it would be great if these synths can join the club. Say a 10 khz saw tooth or 25-75 pulse.
Hi fintain, can you please let me know if these plots cover what you wanted?

I have done lots of plots generated from the x2 (default oversampling for realtime use) sweeps I have just posted with drive at -12 dB amp at 0 dB and level at +12 dB
http://www.vellocet.com/SynthSquadAudioDemos/Plots/

Here are all the saw and saw sync plots plots:

Anderw Simper

hi andy

whats that program in the screenshots?

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:08 pm

S-N-S wrote:hi andy, whats that program in the screenshots?

Adobe Audition (previously called Cool Edit Pro)

Andrew Simper

fintain · Post by **fintain** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:23 pm

Andy, Just had a look at the waveforms. I open to be corrected but it seems by looking at the plots that the oscillators are naive waveforms oversampled. If you check any of the established analog modeling soft synths waveforms you'll notice ringing squiggles after the high to low transition. Its a blep and is the reason why the minimonsta has such a nice analog sound and a real fizzy high when the filter is open. Its hard to fully tell because your frequency plots loose resolution in the higher regions. Any chance of posting the audio file that you used so I can have a look/listen. I'll post back my thoughts for what they are worth

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:11 pm

fintain wrote:Andy, Just had a look at the waveforms. I open to be corrected but it seems by looking at the plots that the oscillators are naive waveforms oversampled. If you check any of the established analog modeling soft synths waveforms you'll notice ringing squiggles after the high to low transition. Its a blep and is the reason why the minimonsta has such a nice analog sound and a real fizzy high when the filter is open. Its hard to fully tell because your frequency plots loose resolution in the higher regions. Any chance of posting the audio file that you used so I can have a look/listen. I'll post back my thoughts for what they are worth

Hi fintain,

I am happy to correct you

I am not using naive waveforms oversampled. I am using a 8 sample long, 16 times oversampled linearly interpolated blep and blamp (band limited ramp) table which bandlimits the C0 and C1 discontinuities. I can also bandlimit the C2 with a blarb (band limited parabola), but in practice this is not needed since the non-linearities of the filter and amp means that you need x2 oversampling anyway.

I try to avoid the ringing you are talking about from the osc waveform ringing since this introduces unwanted harmonics when you process the oscillators afterwards through the filter and amp with non-linearites. So, I actually stretch out the blep table which reduces the ringing and wobbles in the waveform that you are talking about and try to keep the waveforms looking as analog as possible throughout the entire signal chain

Thanks for spotting this feature!

As I already said in my previous post, these plots are generated from the sweep files I have posted, which there are .wav versions of for download, so knock yourself out having a look at them.

For up and down sampling (oversampling) I am using a polyphase two path iir halfband filter which Laurent from Ohm Force coded from a paper by Artur Kruwkowski.

I hope that clears things up a bit.

Oh, one last thing, I just had a chat with Laurent who is the main dsp coder for Ohm Force. He doesn't use blep for the osc in minimosta, he uses a wavetable, so I'm not sure where you got your information from, but it's not correct. The osc in minimosta, as you pointed out, sounds great. Laurent writes fantastic dsp and has made large contributions to the dsp community by releasing fft and resampler code, and he's a great guy to boot. Thanks Laurent!

Andrew Simper

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:08 pm

Hmmm - French DSP flavoured!

Great to see that erstwhile cross-channel hostilities (thinking Yes Minister here) have not adversly impacted the potential of Synth Squad.

fjolle · Post by **fjolle** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:16 pm

Maybe i've missed them but is there any screenshots/specs of Animator around?

Angus_FX · Post by **Angus_FX** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:28 pm

We haven't released screens of Animator yet, though you can see it in the videos. It's a four-engine hybrid stepsequencer/arpeggiator that you can use as modulation sources, note sequencers or arpeggiators. Various different clocking and triggering options, swing, a lot of stuff lifted from the GURU step sequencers.

Four modes of operation for each engine:-
- Arpeggiator
- Note Sequencer
- Mod Sequencer
- Advanced (basically all at once plus some goodies)

up to 128 steps, 12 pattern memories per engine, poly arp mode.. it's a beast.

SWAN808 · Post by **SWAN808** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:43 pm

Angus_FX wrote:We haven't released screens of Animator yet, though you can see it in the videos. It's a four-engine hybrid stepsequencer/arpeggiator that you can use as modulation sources, note sequencers or arpeggiators. Various different clocking and triggering options, swing, a lot of stuff lifted from the GURU step sequencers.

Four modes of operation for each engine:-
- Arpeggiator
- Note Sequencer
- Mod Sequencer
- Advanced (basically all at once plus some goodies)

up to 128 steps, 12 pattern memories per engine, poly arp mode.. it's a beast.

is there any sort of chord memory / generator?

fjolle · Post by **fjolle** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:55 pm

Angus_FX wrote:though you can see it in the videos.

This is likely a dumb question, but what videos? If you refer to the one at synthsquad.com i've just watched it twice without finding it. Never mind, though, the description is enough.

It's a four-engine hybrid stepsequencer/arpeggiator that you can use as modulation sources, note sequencers or arpeggiators. Various different clocking and triggering options, swing, a lot of stuff lifted from the GURU step sequencers.

Four modes of operation for each engine:-
- Arpeggiator
- Note Sequencer
- Mod Sequencer
- Advanced (basically all at once plus some goodies)

up to 128 steps, 12 pattern memories per engine, poly arp mode.. it's a beast.

Sounds like another well thought out aspect of this package. If its just implemented so its easy to work with, but as a heavy GURU user i wouldn't belive otherwise

Enjoyable that it supports such long steps and pattern memories. Is it possible to switch pattern with midi(or perhaps internally, like patter1->pattern2->pattern3->back to 1)?

And is it possible to load previously saved patterns to, lets say, the note sequenzer(I suppose the answer is yes, but is it with an internal browser (Like Nexus with its arp presets etc) or files)?

Shy · Post by **Shy** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:29 pm

andy_cytomic wrote:So Shy, are these demos a little better to show the analog modeling?

I think that demo actually shows mostly how un-analog it sounds, compared to the analog demo and generally. I also think it's good that unlike most other developers you weren't afraid to post dry demos of the synth. Personally, except the smooth sound at high frequencies and with high overdrive (thanks to the offline oversampling), none of the demos really appealed to me and I think there's the usual digital harshness and lack of flexibility (literally, with fast attacks for example). But there's also something other digital synths lack, and it at least sounds like it's mostly thanks to how your overdrive is integrated with the basic sound.

Here are two more examples. One is of all oscs at full volume with square and with random LFO (filter at max and no resonance), and one with just self resonating filter and decay from slow to very fast. This is the kind of demos that would show any virtual analog synth's limitations even much more clearly than the high resonance filter demo.

What I think your synths could be great for are things that are very hard and/or expensive or impossible to do with analog synths. To be able to do that with decent analog-inspired quality (by that I mean "not crap", which I think almost all other virtual analog synths are) is what would really be useful. I've still heared nothing that could replace a real analog synth, and you don't even claim that. So, all good. In short that's what I really think and it's nothing personal at all, so no offense is meant at all. I can definitely understand all the excitement about the synths. People have grown way too tired of big claims with nothing to back them up and these synths bring some fresh air free of bullshit.

FXpansion D-CAM: Synth Squad for sale now!